Week 6 NCSt

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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby commavegarage on Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:19 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:Some may say the author is to sports journalism what Daz is to modern offenses.



:laugh :laugh
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby hansen on Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:39 pm



Some good questions this week:

1. No update on Dillon or Smith

2. His analysis of the team so far:

He had expected to be undefeated going into NC St
Happy with Dillon, OL so far; WR have improved
Defense is explosive (sacks, TFLs, etc) but they need to get better at stopping the run and tackling

3. Emphasis at practice this week for defense is on tackling and consistency

4. Daz admits he doesn’t look at the depth charts

5. Colton back this week; Dan Longman will be doing kickoffs even when Colton comes back; John Tessitore to hopefully redshirt

6. David Bailey not going to redshirt this year

7. Offense runs “12” formations in practice; Thinks practicing in “10”/“11” formations would help the defense since thats what they will face in ACC games
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby durkcal on Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:45 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:Finley is going to throw for 400 against this secondary and LB corps.


Depends on how much BC scores. If BC is punting instead of kicking off, he might not get enough field to put up 400.


And if we're having the batted footballs into the hands of 290 lb DL's, that will limit the yards as well. :oops: But yeah, expect Finley to have a very efficient day
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby dtwalrus on Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:49 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:surprisingly aggressive article from the heights

http://bcheights.com/2018/10/01/inhibit ... potential/

I'm not Daz... so I don't want to pick on the kid... but, that article was just terrible.

First, the offense has not been the problem this year. The Defense has been ridiculously underperforming... and the kid just glosses over that by conclusively stating Don Brown and Jim Reid are good at coaching D. The kid goes on to reference being a missed extra point away against Ped State. But, he fails to realize that the only reason why the kicking game came into play that day was because our D was absolutely atrocious. Christian Hackenburg made millions from that single game (a game where Third Down Donnie Brown gift wrapped a big win to his future conference mates).

Second, he complains about the lack of a throw game. In doing so, he fails to point out that the QBs have not been terribly good at BC. No one should want them to be a pass-first team. I get it... Kim can score at will when passing on 1st down on Madden Mobile. But, here is who he thinks should be airing it out: AB, Wade, Towles, Smith, Fadule, Flutie. That's a list of starting QBs since 2015. Our best QB under Daz has been Tyler Murphy, who was essentially a RB playing QB. Incredibly, Kim uses stats from that 2014 season to further his wish for more of a throw game. Our best passer under Daz was the final year of Rettig (who was only 61% for 1995 yards and 17/8 TD/INT... with every team trying to stop the Doak Walker winner). AB has the most potential... but, he is nowhere near fulfilling it. And, post injury, he has no mobility (which was a nice piece of his arsenal). Bottomline, ANY coach is run-first with that stable of QBs. If you want to complain about something, complain about the staff's inability to pick a style, recruit a QB for it and develop them. Don't stupidly rely on stats when the starters can't hit wide open WRs. That said, Millennials believe that all things they weren't paying attention to can be summarized by statistics... but, when they ARE paying attention, they are uniquely woke to offer a nuanced take.

Third, seriously. This kid is comparing McVay and the Rams (during Goff's best game ever) as the reason why Daz sucks. That is such an absurd comparison that it sinks the entire argument. It would be like Daz countering this by saying Bama's QB only throwing the ball 8 times on Saturday is proof that his run-first system is perfect.

I skimmed the rest of the way-too-long article. I'm glad he wrote it because it will be fun to watch ts and Meat Baum get all worked-up. But, dispationately, it is a pretty terrible piece of writing (both in style and substance). Some may say the author is to sports journalism what Daz is to modern offenses.


This is very fair. But I will say that predictability has become a major problem for the BC offense. If Daz doesn't see that other teams are selling out to stop the run, he's a complete moron. If he sees and just doesn't care, he's a bigger idiot.

This isn't about taking shots down field on 1st downs. It's also not about becoming a 50-50 pass-run offense. It's about keeping defenses honest. There is no reason we can't have a repertoire of quick slants, outs and screens that may only go for 5 yards, but are reliable on 1st down and force the defense to respect the receivers. Brown looks fully capable of that in a way that (admittedly) Wade, Flutie, Smith, Fadule, and all the rest didn't.

Daz is unquestionably getting out-coached on the offensive side of the ball every game, and scoring 40+ points against UMass, Holy Cross, Wake and Temple is smoke-and-mirrors. All of our opponents remaining look as good, if not better than Purdue. If Daz doesn't wise up, this really can become a 4-8 season.
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby HJS on Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:28 pm

dtwalrus {l Wrote}:There is no reason we can't have a repertoire of quick slants, outs and screens that may only go for 5 yards, but are reliable on 1st down and force the defense to respect the receivers.

Completely disagree. Those throws need to be accurate or they are pick-6s. If you haven't noticed, there are some posters here who question AB's accuracy. His penchant to overthrow a slant or underthrow an out may actually have results that are worse than running a dive with 9 in the box. Also, when teams crowd the line, they can defend quite capable the short routes you are espousing. Where they have trouble defending is the over-the-top stuff. That is why, when he has had time (like the Wake game), AB can be effective throwing to wide open WRs (who still made the catch even though the ball was routinely late).
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby hansen on Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:54 pm

If Dillon and Smith play, then BC wins this game.

There, I said it.
HANSENPOST :shrug

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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:25 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:...If you haven't noticed, there are some posters here who question AB's accuracy...

are you one of those posters, or are you saying that you think those posters are wrong and anthony the lancer has an accurate arm?
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby twballgame9 on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:27 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:
dtwalrus {l Wrote}:There is no reason we can't have a repertoire of quick slants, outs and screens that may only go for 5 yards, but are reliable on 1st down and force the defense to respect the receivers.

Completely disagree. Those throws need to be accurate or they are pick-6s. If you haven't noticed, there are some posters here who question AB's accuracy. His penchant to overthrow a slant or underthrow an out may actually have results that are worse than running a dive with 9 in the box. Also, when teams crowd the line, they can defend quite capable the short routes you are espousing. Where they have trouble defending is the over-the-top stuff. That is why, when he has had time (like the Wake game), AB can be effective throwing to wide open WRs (who still made the catch even though the ball was routinely late).


Agree with HJS, nothing short and over the middle unless it is a quick hitch to the TE to get to the sticks. Flanker and bubble screens are a different story. But you can't run those from the 9 TE all between the hashes formation.

The solution is simple, run from more pass formations, and pass more on run downs. Just enough of each to loosen up between the tackles. Then run Dillon there. Other than screens and obvious third and longs, every throw should be play action.
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby HJS on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:27 pm

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:...If you haven't noticed, there are some posters here who question AB's accuracy...

are you one of those posters, or are you saying that you think those posters are wrong and anthony the lancer has an accurate arm?

I am Spartacus.

I like AB and think he has a world of potential. But, the kid sure as hell ain't throwing darts out there.
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:47 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:
TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:...If you haven't noticed, there are some posters here who question AB's accuracy...

are you one of those posters, or are you saying that you think those posters are wrong and anthony the lancer has an accurate arm?

I am Spartacus.

I like AB and think he has a world of potential. But, the kid sure as hell ain't throwing darts out there.

i don't remember the part of the movie where spartacus came back later and told everyone how right he was about something he didn't voice an opinion on previously.

but, that aside, i think he does throw darts at times... right into the arms of the 9 guys in opposite colors that are stacked into the box

i agree that i like brown but feel like he's been given the darius wade treatment. he got hurt and couldn't play but some of the more vocal posters here propped him up as the answer and savior of the program once he got his injuries healed - regardless of the fact that he wasn't really that good prior to his injury. couple that with a jock sniffing thin skinned gym coach stuck in techmo bowl offensive scheming, and the kid doesn't really stand much of a chance. the opposing defenses know that he's going to call one of the two running plays on 1st and 2nd down and then one of the two passing plays on third down

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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby Corporal Funishment on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:58 pm

The offense is too predictable. Give me a down, distance, formation, and tell me who the running back is and I can tell you if they're running or passing with probably better than 90% accuracy. Give me just the down and tell me if we're losing by less than 2 scores and I can still predict it with probably better than 80% accuracy. A halfway decent opposing coach is going to pick up on these things
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby hansen on Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:24 pm

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:
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Just need to hope Dillon gets to Bo Jackson level and our offense will be unstoppable!
HANSENPOST :shrug

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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby gallopingghost on Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:55 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:surprisingly aggressive article from the heights

http://bcheights.com/2018/10/01/inhibit ... potential/

I'm not Daz... so I don't want to pick on the kid... but, that article was just terrible.

First, the offense has not been the problem this year. The Defense has been ridiculously underperforming... and the kid just glosses over that by conclusively stating Don Brown and Jim Reid are good at coaching D. The kid goes on to reference being a missed extra point away against Ped State. But, he fails to realize that the only reason why the kicking game came into play that day was because our D was absolutely atrocious. Christian Hackenburg made millions from that single game (a game where Third Down Donnie Brown gift wrapped a big win to his future conference mates).

Second, he complains about the lack of a throw game. In doing so, he fails to point out that the QBs have not been terribly good at BC. No one should want them to be a pass-first team. I get it... Kim can score at will when passing on 1st down on Madden Mobile. But, here is who he thinks should be airing it out: AB, Wade, Towles, Smith, Fadule, Flutie. That's a list of starting QBs since 2015. Our best QB under Daz has been Tyler Murphy, who was essentially a RB playing QB. Incredibly, Kim uses stats from that 2014 season to further his wish for more of a throw game. Our best passer under Daz was the final year of Rettig (who was only 61% for 1995 yards and 17/8 TD/INT... with every team trying to stop the Doak Walker winner). AB has the most potential... but, he is nowhere near fulfilling it. And, post injury, he has no mobility (which was a nice piece of his arsenal). Bottomline, ANY coach is run-first with that stable of QBs. If you want to complain about something, complain about the staff's inability to pick a style, recruit a QB for it and develop them. Don't stupidly rely on stats when the starters can't hit wide open WRs. That said, Millennials believe that all things they weren't paying attention to can be summarized by statistics... but, when they ARE paying attention, they are uniquely woke to offer a nuanced take.

Third, seriously. This kid is comparing McVay and the Rams (during Goff's best game ever) as the reason why Daz sucks. That is such an absurd comparison that it sinks the entire argument. It would be like Daz countering this by saying Bama's QB only throwing the ball 8 times on Saturday is proof that his run-first system is perfect.

I skimmed the rest of the way-too-long article. I'm glad he wrote it because it will be fun to watch ts and Meat Baum get all worked-up. But, dispationately, it is a pretty terrible piece of writing (both in style and substance). Some may say the author is to sports journalism what Daz is to modern offenses.


Perhaps a whole new QB recruiting approach is warranted. Is BC the type of school that will attract the top dual threat QB? So far this type of recruiting has not been successful.

When I think of all the good three star pro style QBs that were recruited over the years, why wouldn't it make sense to go back to that approach? From Foley, Hasselback, St Piere, Paul Pete, Mattie, Retig etc, there was rarely ever such a long stretch of QB that couldn't throw.
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Re: Week 6 NCSt

Postby Eaglekeeper on Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:07 pm

Is AB still a dual threat? Completely agree on going back to pro style QB’s. AB is not going to win many games with his arm.
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Re: Week 6 NCSt

Postby twballgame9 on Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:21 pm

Great we can fight with USC for the one that exists.
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby tallsy on Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:37 pm

gallopingghost {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:surprisingly aggressive article from the heights

http://bcheights.com/2018/10/01/inhibit ... potential/

I'm not Daz... so I don't want to pick on the kid... but, that article was just terrible.

First, the offense has not been the problem this year. The Defense has been ridiculously underperforming... and the kid just glosses over that by conclusively stating Don Brown and Jim Reid are good at coaching D. The kid goes on to reference being a missed extra point away against Ped State. But, he fails to realize that the only reason why the kicking game came into play that day was because our D was absolutely atrocious. Christian Hackenburg made millions from that single game (a game where Third Down Donnie Brown gift wrapped a big win to his future conference mates).

Second, he complains about the lack of a throw game. In doing so, he fails to point out that the QBs have not been terribly good at BC. No one should want them to be a pass-first team. I get it... Kim can score at will when passing on 1st down on Madden Mobile. But, here is who he thinks should be airing it out: AB, Wade, Towles, Smith, Fadule, Flutie. That's a list of starting QBs since 2015. Our best QB under Daz has been Tyler Murphy, who was essentially a RB playing QB. Incredibly, Kim uses stats from that 2014 season to further his wish for more of a throw game. Our best passer under Daz was the final year of Rettig (who was only 61% for 1995 yards and 17/8 TD/INT... with every team trying to stop the Doak Walker winner). AB has the most potential... but, he is nowhere near fulfilling it. And, post injury, he has no mobility (which was a nice piece of his arsenal). Bottomline, ANY coach is run-first with that stable of QBs. If you want to complain about something, complain about the staff's inability to pick a style, recruit a QB for it and develop them. Don't stupidly rely on stats when the starters can't hit wide open WRs. That said, Millennials believe that all things they weren't paying attention to can be summarized by statistics... but, when they ARE paying attention, they are uniquely woke to offer a nuanced take.

Third, seriously. This kid is comparing McVay and the Rams (during Goff's best game ever) as the reason why Daz sucks. That is such an absurd comparison that it sinks the entire argument. It would be like Daz countering this by saying Bama's QB only throwing the ball 8 times on Saturday is proof that his run-first system is perfect.

I skimmed the rest of the way-too-long article. I'm glad he wrote it because it will be fun to watch ts and Meat Baum get all worked-up. But, dispationately, it is a pretty terrible piece of writing (both in style and substance). Some may say the author is to sports journalism what Daz is to modern offenses.


Perhaps a whole new QB recruiting approach is warranted. Is BC the type of school that will attract the top dual threat QB? So far this type of recruiting has not been successful.

When I think of all the good three star pro style QBs that were recruited over the years, why wouldn't it make sense to go back to that approach? From Foley, Hasselback, St Piere, Paul Pete, Mattie, Retig etc, there was rarely ever such a long stretch of QB that couldn't throw.


I'm not one to whine about BC's supposed recruiting disadvantages, but it did strike me as strange to turn "into" the same recruiting strategy at QB to "chase" the spread fad. Yes, most years they will be Rettig/Saint rather than Matty Ice. But at this level, I'm not sure can get true dual threats as opposed to RBs playing QB like Murphy.

And I understand that there are supply issues at the HS level, but as noted, there's a lot less competition too.
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Re: Week 6 NCSt

Postby BC923 on Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:05 am

It's not like you need a very athletic guy to run a modern offense either. It helps if they can move a little bit, but a QB who can throw opens a lot of doors. We should really be spreading the field out more. There's a reason everyone else is doing it, it creates bigger throwing windows. It's not even like you need to change personnel completely, splitting tight ends out wide creates matchup problems for the defense, and opens up space through the middle. Putting everyone between the hashes has its place, but to throw consistently out of it you need a really good QB.

Even to run, you don't need to be so athletic. See Chris Crane at FSU, 2008.
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Re: Week 6 NCSt

Postby HJS on Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:08 am

BC923 {l Wrote}:It's not like you need a very athletic guy to run a modern offense either. It helps if they can move a little bit, but a QB who can throw opens a lot of doors. We should really be spreading the field out more. There's a reason everyone else is doing it, it creates bigger throwing windows. It's not even like you need to change personnel completely, splitting tight ends out wide creates matchup problems for the defense, and opens up space through the middle. Putting everyone between the hashes has its place, but to throw consistently out of it you need a really good QB.

Even to run, you don't need to be so athletic. See Chris Crane at FSU, 2008.

Wake and Purdue both torched BC with skinny white kids in the mold of Fadule. In college, there are many different versions that can succeed.

A kid like AB (good leader, athletic, strong arm, questionable accuracy) can succeed as well. The problem currently is that, post-injury, he no longer is a runner and that saps a significant part of his game. Previously, defenses had to have someone account for him at all times (which pulls a defender from coverage and slows the pass-rush). Now, BC's offense is solely a run game combined with an inaccurate pocket passer. Essentially, we are back to where we were with Towles under center. The difference here is that Brown is still young and can improve. He may also get some of his running ability back the further he gets away from the injury.

Look... it's questionable how much longer Daz will be here. But, I think he has been consistent in what he is recruiting at QB. Wade, Brown, Valecce, Johnson and Perry are all similar players (passers who can run). McDonald, Langan and Lubischer are a little different (McDonald more of a true passer and Langan/Lube more of runners (who I expect will move to D)... but they all were also the second QBs added to their respective classes). The beginning part of Daz's tenure is where he struggled most with QB-style... but that is partly due to what he inheritted, injuries and a having with 3 OCs in 4 years.
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Re: Week 6 NCSt

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:28 am

Towles was a better runner than Brown before Brown got hurt. Brown, while inaccurate, does not register on the Towles inaccuracy scale.

Either way, Brown and Strachan both will get speed back with time. Both have looked slow.
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby biggestskyeagle on Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:58 am

hansen {l Wrote}:
TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:
Image


Just need to hope Dillon gets to Bo Jackson level and our offense will be unstoppable!


This.
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Re: Week 6 NCSt

Postby DuchesneEast on Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:28 pm

Any news on Dillon and Smith playing?
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Re: Week 6 NCSt

Postby hansen on Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:40 pm

DuchesneEast {l Wrote}:Any news on Dillon and Smith playing?


I think Dal's next media availability is tmrw.
Don't think we will know anything before then.
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby innocentbystander on Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:18 pm

Corporal Funishment {l Wrote}:The offense is too predictable. Give me a down, distance, formation, and tell me who the running back is and I can tell you if they're running or passing with probably better than 90% accuracy. Give me just the down and tell me if we're losing by less than 2 scores and I can still predict it with probably better than 80% accuracy. A halfway decent opposing coach is going to pick up on these things


Yes I am quite sure you totally guessed that touchdown pass TO Anthony Brown last Saturday.
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby Onyx Blackman on Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:54 pm

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:
Corporal Funishment {l Wrote}:The offense is too predictable. Give me a down, distance, formation, and tell me who the running back is and I can tell you if they're running or passing with probably better than 90% accuracy. Give me just the down and tell me if we're losing by less than 2 scores and I can still predict it with probably better than 80% accuracy. A halfway decent opposing coach is going to pick up on these things


Yes I am quite sure you totally guessed that touchdown pass TO Anthony Brown last Saturday.

He could've guessed that it wouldn't happen on first down.
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Oct 02, 2018 8:49 pm

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:
Corporal Funishment {l Wrote}:The offense is too predictable. Give me a down, distance, formation, and tell me who the running back is and I can tell you if they're running or passing with probably better than 90% accuracy. Give me just the down and tell me if we're losing by less than 2 scores and I can still predict it with probably better than 80% accuracy. A halfway decent opposing coach is going to pick up on these things


Yes I am quite sure you totally guessed that touchdown pass TO Anthony Brown last Saturday.


That was the one play in the 10%. Doesn't make up for the 35 slow developing off tackle counters on third down.
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby innocentbystander on Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:21 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
innocentbystander {l Wrote}:
Corporal Funishment {l Wrote}:The offense is too predictable. Give me a down, distance, formation, and tell me who the running back is and I can tell you if they're running or passing with probably better than 90% accuracy. Give me just the down and tell me if we're losing by less than 2 scores and I can still predict it with probably better than 80% accuracy. A halfway decent opposing coach is going to pick up on these things


Yes I am quite sure you totally guessed that touchdown pass TO Anthony Brown last Saturday.


That was the one play in the 10%. Doesn't make up for the 35 slow developing off tackle counters on third down.


Totally agree Teddy. No more sweeps. That isn't working.
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Re: Week 5 NCSt

Postby twballgame9 on Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:47 pm

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
innocentbystander {l Wrote}:
Corporal Funishment {l Wrote}:The offense is too predictable. Give me a down, distance, formation, and tell me who the running back is and I can tell you if they're running or passing with probably better than 90% accuracy. Give me just the down and tell me if we're losing by less than 2 scores and I can still predict it with probably better than 80% accuracy. A halfway decent opposing coach is going to pick up on these things


Yes I am quite sure you totally guessed that touchdown pass TO Anthony Brown last Saturday.


That was the one play in the 10%. Doesn't make up for the 35 slow developing off tackle counters on third down.


Totally agree Teddy. No more sweeps. That isn't working.


90% off the time.
"We remind everyone that Boston College fired a perfectly good coach because he went on a job interview, and deserves all of this." Spencer Hall
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Re: Week 6 NCSt

Postby b0mberMan on Wed Oct 03, 2018 7:43 am

Good to see we're back at the time of year where people decry "spread" QBs as a fad and a gimmick
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Re: Week 6 NCSt

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Wed Oct 03, 2018 8:02 am

b0mberMan {l Wrote}:..."spread" QBs ...

i don't think hansen meant it the same way you are interpreting it...
now in the street there is violence
and, and a lots of work to be done
no place to hang out our washing
and, and i can't blame all on the sun
good god we gonna rock down to electric avenue
and then we'll take it higher
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Re: Week 6 NCSt

Postby Thornton Melon on Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:36 am

The issue with Daz has been and always will be fundamentally he believes football should be played like it was in the Amos Alonzo Stagg days. Crack the rock, control the lines.

There is no QB development in this program. Every kid comes in and plays basically the same for their time at BC, if not regressing. And I don't see how you win college football games consistently without solid QB play. Even Purdue, I'm convinced we win that game with a good QB. Not great, good. The gameflow went completely haywire on both sides once Brown soiled himself. For all my problems with the Hen and Deep Sea Dana, there was a lot of QB development there - interestingly it was the Handsome one who improved the least, but Ryan, the Hasselbecks, Mutryn, Saint, they all improved significantly under that coaching staff.

Our guys don't get better, and I really believe it's because they get better coaching in high school than at BC. Realistically the only model of QB that could work under Daz would be the PP model, a guy who can improvise and process whats going on in front of him instinctively, because they sure aren't going to coach it or playcall to help him.
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