Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Forum rules
"The opinions expressed on this board are property of the poster and do not reflect the opinion of EagleOutsider, Boston College or Boston College Athletics"

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:54 am

HJS {l Wrote}:
Dick Rosenthal {l Wrote}:
flyingelvii {l Wrote}:He got paid and got lucky. Like 8 things had to happen for him to get the ND position starting with him choosing ND over LSU, Cincy making the playoffs to take Fickell off the market, Coach O pissing off boosters two years after a National Championship, Lincoln Riley choosing USC, and I’m sure others. Better to be lucky than good.


Yes, a lot of luck involved, but the fact that he took ND over LSU showed some awareness. Elko did not have that sort of awareness when he took the money and jumped ship to A&M, which did nothing but hurt his reputation as a defensive genius--especially when coupled with the fact that Lea came in and the defense outperformed what it did under Elko (more as a result of improved recruiting that anything Lea did, but it didn't help). Lea's decision is even more baffling. I know he is an alum, but Vandy is where promising coaches go to kill their careers. Yes, Franklin did well by Vandy standards (6-7, 9-4, 8-4) but benefitted from a few very unique historical anomalies within the SEC all happening at the same time (specifically Ole Miss, Tennessee, Florida and Kentucky being bad beyond any historical norms all at the same time). Lea should have avoided that job like the plague and banked the current 11-1 season. While he admittedly would have been clairvoyant to see Kelly being lured away by LSU, I am guessing that Lea would have been a top candidate for the ND job had he still been there and at the very least would have been a candidate for some of the better available jobs that opened this year.

Nothing in this explanation is an argument that speaks to Freeman being anything other than lucky.

After multiple years, Elko leaves for more money... defense was just as good under Lea... which proves it was really about talent and not coaching ability of either coach...
After multiple years, Lea leaves for more money... defense wasn't as good under Freeman... which proves it was really about talent and not coaching ability of either coach...
After a few months, Freeman is rewarded as head coach based on his brilliant career move of not leaving for another job during the season.

I'd note that, during the season, Domers were happy about Freeman's recruiting... less so his coaching. Started the year giving up a ton of points to the likes of FSU, Toledo, VT and UNC. Combine that with a Cincy loss, plenty ND alums were underwhelmed. But, ND ended the year with the gauntlet of QB-less teams in USNA, UVA, GT and Stanford. Freeman's D inflated season stats by surrendering a mere combined 23 points. Huzzah!!! No-brainer hire! JurkWatch forever, Tommy Rees never!



I never said luck wasn't a large part of it, but there are certain choices made by Elko and Lea that were bad decisions on their face. In Elko's case, wringing every dime out of A&M in a place where he was not likely to succeed as well at Notre Dame. A&M offered Elko a boatload of money, but he took that offer back to Notre Dame who promptly matched it before Elko shopped that counter back to A&M and wrung out an extra $200K from them. When you are slated to make $1.7 million, this is stupid and self-defeating. He destroyed any goodwill he had at Notre Dame, he pissed off some in the A&M community, and he entered the SEC with less talent than three or four teams he had to play each year. Elko stays at Notre Dame, he makes a couple of CFPs and leads two top 5 defenses and by now he is sitting in a decent P5 head coaching job instead of Duke--quite literally one of the three worst P5 football jobs out there. And he is sitting at Duke because, predictably, he went from being the defensive genius who started landing high 4 star DL and LB recruits at Notre Dame running a lock down defense to being the guy whose defense was getting torched on the regular--because the offensive talent in the SEC is off the charts--and getting out recruited at A&M (even though he was bringing in just as many 4 star recruits at A&M) because his primary rivals in conference feast on illiterate 5 stars. He is also perceived as an untrustworthy dick in some quarters because of the money grubbing thing. All foreseeable and something a savvy coach would have avoided.

It's probably even more pronounced for Lea. He shuns Vandy, which every reasonable savvy coach who isn't desperate for a head coaching opportunity does (people forget that Franklin took the Vandy job because he and Randy Edsall hated each other and he was about to get fired at Maryland) he is probably sifting through some very good opportunities this year--I was told by a prominent VT grad that they were willing to chuck Fuentes over the side at the end of last year to get Lea, but Lea turned them down to take the Vandy gig. And while as previously discussed, VT ain't the job it was a decade ago, its a damn sight better than Vandy. And as with Lea, all of the problems he has now are entirely foreseeable.

As for Freeman, he turned down an extra $150K for ND because he was savvy enough to see that it was, at least at that point in time, a better job in pretty much every way than the LSU gig. He recognized that expectations would be relatively modest at ND after a playoff appearance and being a good talent evaluator, recognized that ND probably had more 1st and 2nd round talent on its defensive roster than LSU and a schedule that would help him get his feet under him in his first year on the big stage. That's what a savvy coach does and it worked to his benefit--the D was shitty the first two games while it got used to his new scheme, but was fortunate that it was against two teams that the offense could score on. After that, the defense looked pretty good to dominant. Even the Cincy game, the defense was good--offense basically gave up 10 points and left another 9-21 points on the table with poor play and horrendous Kelly-dominated play calling. Yes, Freeman certainly lucked into the ND job, but he made a couple of savvy decisions that his two predecessors were not smart enough to make. Even if he hadn't landed the ND job, at the end of this past season he'd have been looking at taking over at Cincinnati or would have been a serious candidate for the Tech and UVA gigs or heading out to work for Riley as a DC for north of $2 million or two a DC slot at one of the open SEC gigs or staying at ND for another year under Kelly with a raise to go along with it and some incoming 5 star talent on defense.
Dick Rosenthal
Higgins Hall
 
Posts: 4518
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:39 pm
Karma: 350

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby HJS on Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:44 am

I'd argue that even if Elko or Lea stayed at ND, Freeman would be a hotter commodity than both because (a) recruiting, (b) recruiting, (c) recruiting, (d) age and (e) "fit."
This post was made by Corporal Funishment who is currently on your ignore list.
User avatar
HJS
Gasson Hall
 
Posts: 16142
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:08 pm
Karma: 557

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby hansen on Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:46 pm

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:that has the distinct smell of #beadude vines but might be even cringier


Way more cringe… not even close
HANSENPOST :shrug

Image
User avatar
hansen
Gasson Hall
 
Posts: 18489
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:07 pm
Location: Your Mom’s House
Karma: -1810

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby HJS on Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:43 pm

Oregon hired the DC from UGA (Dan Lanning) as its head coach. Meaning... that Marty will not be lucky enough to have Chip Kelly skip town on his own. UCLA will have to use some of the Under Armour lawsuit money to clear the way for Jarmond's coach.

Interestingly, the 2015 Alabama team had 6 current Power 5 Head Coaches as assistants: Kirby Smart (UGA), Mel Tucker (MSU), Lane Kiffin (Miss), Billy Napier (UF), Mario Cristobal (Mia) and Dan Lanning (Ore). Tosh Lupoi was considered at the time to be among the best on that staff (at least from a recruiting perspective) and someone who would quickly become a head coach. His career has stalled and is toiling away with the Jags. But, rumors are that Napier is targeting him as his DC.
This post was made by Corporal Funishment who is currently on your ignore list.
User avatar
HJS
Gasson Hall
 
Posts: 16142
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:08 pm
Karma: 557

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby ATLeagle on Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:52 pm

As goofy as he has been, I still think Kelly does well at LSU. The last three guys there won national titles. Kelly is pretty good at hiring assistants. If he keeps the local talent he will be good every year and great some years. Saban is 70. He will start slipping soon.
ATLeagle
Merkert Hall
 
Posts: 4043
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:13 am
Karma: 643

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby hansen on Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:03 pm

ATLeagle {l Wrote}:As goofy as he has been, I still think Kelly does well at LSU. The last three guys there won national titles. Kelly is pretty good at hiring assistants. If he keeps the local talent he will be good every year and great some years. Saban is 70. He will start slipping soon.


Greatest collegiate coach of all-time can lose a couple mph off his fastball and still dominate.
HANSENPOST :shrug

Image
User avatar
hansen
Gasson Hall
 
Posts: 18489
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:07 pm
Location: Your Mom’s House
Karma: -1810

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby TontoKowalski on Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:35 pm

hansen {l Wrote}:
ATLeagle {l Wrote}:As goofy as he has been, I still think Kelly does well at LSU. The last three guys there won national titles. Kelly is pretty good at hiring assistants. If he keeps the local talent he will be good every year and great some years. Saban is 70. He will start slipping soon.


Greatest collegiate coach of all-time can lose a couple mph off his fastball and still dominate.


I'm kinda skeptical of Kelly at LSU. There will be systemic disagreements about things early on in rooms full of hotheads who hold grudges. LSU is also impatient in ways where ND wasn't. We'll see.
User avatar
TontoKowalski
Merkert Hall
 
Posts: 4161
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:20 pm
Karma: 2326

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby claver2010 on Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:33 am

eh there's so much talent down there that's loyal to the state you really have to fuck it up. between the talent and resources it's a top 5 job easily and probably top 3. for all the handwringing by angrydick, kelly is a good coach and got ND to about as high as they could go in this environment
Bush, George H W
Cosby, Bill
Disick, Scott
Flair, Ric
Griffin, Kathy
Khamenei, Ali
McCain, John
Pele
Soros, George
User avatar
claver2010
Gasson Hall
 
Posts: 19691
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:55 pm
Karma: 3326

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby hansen on Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:22 am

TontoKowalski {l Wrote}:
hansen {l Wrote}:
ATLeagle {l Wrote}:As goofy as he has been, I still think Kelly does well at LSU. The last three guys there won national titles. Kelly is pretty good at hiring assistants. If he keeps the local talent he will be good every year and great some years. Saban is 70. He will start slipping soon.


Greatest collegiate coach of all-time can lose a couple mph off his fastball and still dominate.


I'm kinda skeptical of Kelly at LSU. There will be systemic disagreements about things early on in rooms full of hotheads who hold grudges. LSU is also impatient in ways where ND wasn't. We'll see.


Oh, I was referring to Saban and being serious.
HANSENPOST :shrug

Image
User avatar
hansen
Gasson Hall
 
Posts: 18489
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:07 pm
Location: Your Mom’s House
Karma: -1810

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby HJS on Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:31 am

Urban Meyer out of Jacksonville.

Given how they drafted, given who they are building that thing around, given his recent loss of assistants and given the diatribe on the current state of college athletics… I could see Dabo being a very real possibility for the Jags.
This post was made by Corporal Funishment who is currently on your ignore list.
User avatar
HJS
Gasson Hall
 
Posts: 16142
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:08 pm
Karma: 557

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Thu Dec 16, 2021 6:41 am

HJS {l Wrote}:Urban Meyer out of Jacksonville.

Given how they drafted, given who they are building that thing around, given his recent loss of assistants and given the diatribe on the current state of college athletics… I could see Dabo being a very real possibility for the Jags.

and the getting fired in 2 years when the team sucks as badly as they do now. dabo is a dancer first, recruiter second and coach 99th
now in the street there is violence
and, and a lots of work to be done
no place to hang out our washing
and, and i can't blame all on the sun
good god we gonna rock down to electric avenue
and then we'll take it higher
User avatar
TobaccoRoadEagle
BC Guy
 
Posts: 23363
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:51 am
Location: tobaccoroad
Karma: 6008

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:20 am

Khan is not making the same mistake twice.
"We remind everyone that Boston College fired a perfectly good coach because he went on a job interview, and deserves all of this." Spencer Hall
User avatar
twballgame9
BC Guy
 
Posts: 33802
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:49 am
Karma: 2523

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby Dick Rosenthal on Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:38 am

Urban Meyer reclamation project! What better way to rehabilitate his image than to come to a fine Jesuit school that puts little emphasis in winning at sports. It allows him to return to his Catholic roots and like the prodigal son, to return to the living embrace of the Lord after wandering in the Sodom and Gomorrah of Florida, tOSU and the NFL. Plus, by the time he takes us to the CFP, either Kelly or Freeman will have failed at LSU or ND and he can move on.

Added bonus, our pool of coed talent is not going to pose the sort of temptations that purportedly had his wife quashing a move to USC.
Dick Rosenthal
Higgins Hall
 
Posts: 4518
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2009 10:39 pm
Karma: 350

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby HJS on Thu Dec 16, 2021 8:40 am

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:Urban Meyer out of Jacksonville.

Given how they drafted, given who they are building that thing around, given his recent loss of assistants and given the diatribe on the current state of college athletics… I could see Dabo being a very real possibility for the Jags.

and the getting fired in 2 years when the team sucks as badly as they do now. dabo is a dancer first, recruiter second and coach 99th

I am well aware. I'm not saying he'd be good at the job. Just saying that Trevor could pull a Herzlich and Dabo would be over-the-moon about moving before he ruins his chances at being hired by his alma mater (i.e. if he is exposed as a terrible coach sans Elliott and Venables). I also think nothing about Khan. He hasn't necessarily inspired confidence in running the organization. So, I can see him falling for the rah-rah player's coach thing. All that said, Dabo and Urban are opposite ends of the spectrum. One is competent but an asshole... the other is lovable puppy with a similar IQ.
This post was made by Corporal Funishment who is currently on your ignore list.
User avatar
HJS
Gasson Hall
 
Posts: 16142
Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 12:08 pm
Karma: 557

Re: Coaching Carousel/Candidates Mega Thread

Postby Supahfan99 on Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:36 am

Daz and Meyer both available on the open market. Imagine those two coming back together as a package deal somewhere. Yukon must be kicking themselves for filling that position so quickly! :whammy
Supahfan99
Campion Hall
 
Posts: 1581
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:13 pm
Karma: 185

Previous

Return to Alumni Stadium

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 18 guests

Untitled document