by Brooklyneagle on Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:18 pm
TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:hansen {l Wrote}:... He needs competitive losses against Louisville, FSU, Clemson and wins against 8 of the 9 teams to keep me thinking that we we are still on track in this long program rebuild. I think 8 wins this year should be the next litmus test.
I agree with this.
can we also agree it will not happen?
by claver2010 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:10 am
dtwalrus {l Wrote}:
This WAS my thinking initially. But now I actually think 2018 is the litmus test, I'm giving Daz a pass for this year and, yes, I know how ridiculous many of you will find that.
by dtwalrus on Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:44 am
by DomingoOrtiz on Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:12 am
jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:The ACC is significantly stronger than the Big East/ACC during the TOB years. To suggest TOB would have gotten 8-9 wins any of the last four years is crazy.
No. He had much better players
This.
And Daz will never get the quality of players TOB did.
by HJS on Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:35 am
jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:The ACC is significantly stronger than the Big East/ACC during the TOB years. To suggest TOB would have gotten 8-9 wins any of the last four years is crazy.
No. He had much better players
This.
And Daz will never get the quality of players TOB did.
by claver2010 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:45 am
dtwalrus {l Wrote}:All I'm saying is that 8 wins in 2017 would be pretty damn impressive. That would mean sweeping the garbage and peer schools and beating one of Clemson, FSU, Louisville, VT, or ND...with a rookie QB. That would not be an "acceptable" season, it would be a very good season.
< 6 wins Daz should be fired.
6-7 wins and 2018 becomes the litmus test
8 wins and some on this board really warm to Daz
9+ wins and Daz is probably given an extension.
by twballgame9 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:09 am
HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:MattTheEagle {l Wrote}:The ACC is significantly stronger than the Big East/ACC during the TOB years. To suggest TOB would have gotten 8-9 wins any of the last four years is crazy.
No. He had much better players
This.
And Daz will never get the quality of players TOB did.
Disagree. I don't like Daz, think he is an atrocious game coach, and won't shed a tear when he leaves. That said, to pretend that TOB didn't inherit a wildly more talented program is nuts (all due respect to the specter of Gamblor). In my mind, Daz has just recruited BC from the depths of college football to talent roughly equivalent to that of TOBs first few years. I don't think Daz will be able to do much beyond that. But, to pretend that he didn't do anything yet or that TOB (given a MUCH better starting point) would have done more in a shorter time is crazy.
by CowboyEagle22 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:30 am
TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:QuailMan {l Wrote}:Just to be clear before the millennial nonsense starts, the kids in high school now are not millennials.
what are they being called even-worse-than-millennials?
by TobaccoRoadEagle on Fri Jun 23, 2017 9:46 am
CowboyEagle22 {l Wrote}:TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:QuailMan {l Wrote}:Just to be clear before the millennial nonsense starts, the kids in high school now are not millennials.
what are they being called even-worse-than-millennials?
They are called Gen-Z, as in Generation Zyklon, because they want to gas the Boomers. They really hate the Boomers, so maybe they are not so bad.
by dtwalrus on Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:00 am
claver2010 {l Wrote}:dtwalrus {l Wrote}:All I'm saying is that 8 wins in 2017 would be pretty damn impressive. That would mean sweeping the garbage and peer schools and beating one of Clemson, FSU, Louisville, VT, or ND...with a rookie QB. That would not be an "acceptable" season, it would be a very good season.
< 6 wins Daz should be fired.
6-7 wins and 2018 becomes the litmus test
8 wins and some on this board really warm to Daz
9+ wins and Daz is probably given an extension.
couple of things:
1) i'd take 8-5 i guess but the bowl game & opponent is so random
b) notre dame went 4-8 last year
iii) daz went 2-0 in his first 2 years against vt and now they're out of reach?
by twballgame9 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:08 am
TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:CowboyEagle22 {l Wrote}:TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:QuailMan {l Wrote}:Just to be clear before the millennial nonsense starts, the kids in high school now are not millennials.
what are they being called even-worse-than-millennials?
They are called Gen-Z, as in Generation Zyklon, because they want to gas the Boomers. They really hate the Boomers, so maybe they are not so bad.
fuck "gen z" - i'm calling them "generation fidget spinners."
they claim that they hate the boomers and millennials but then project many of those groups' worst habits and stereotypes
by twballgame9 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:09 am
dtwalrus {l Wrote}:claver2010 {l Wrote}:dtwalrus {l Wrote}:All I'm saying is that 8 wins in 2017 would be pretty damn impressive. That would mean sweeping the garbage and peer schools and beating one of Clemson, FSU, Louisville, VT, or ND...with a rookie QB. That would not be an "acceptable" season, it would be a very good season.
< 6 wins Daz should be fired.
6-7 wins and 2018 becomes the litmus test
8 wins and some on this board really warm to Daz
9+ wins and Daz is probably given an extension.
couple of things:
1) i'd take 8-5 i guess but the bowl game & opponent is so random
b) notre dame went 4-8 last year
iii) daz went 2-0 in his first 2 years against vt and now they're out of reach?
1) Yeah, bowl will decide a lot. 6 wins and a bad bowl loss and Daz might get fired. 6 or 7 regular season wins followed by a bowl win and I think everyone here is (generally) content waiting til 2018.
b) Notre Dame's 4-8 is very deceptive. They lost to 4 games by 3pts or less. And those 8 losses included names like Michigan State, USC, Texas, Stanford and VT. And Notre Dame has way too many 4 and 5 star recruits these days to have a sustained down time. They belong in the same group as Louisville and VT at least.
iii) FSU and Clemson are out of reach. Louisville, VT and ND are still stretches and would be good wins.
by HJS on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:00 am
jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:Also, comparing TOBs first recruiting classes when he was coming off a gambling scandal to Daz and his situation is absolutely insane, much more difficult to recruit for TOB than Daz. So in conclusion, TOB would have won 8-9 games in this ACC.
by twballgame9 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:18 am
HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:Also, comparing TOBs first recruiting classes when he was coming off a gambling scandal to Daz and his situation is absolutely insane, much more difficult to recruit for TOB than Daz. So in conclusion, TOB would have won 8-9 games in this ACC.
I can't do this again. From experience, I know there is no arguing with a Ginger-lover. Fine... enjoy your soulless life partner.
by TobaccoRoadEagle on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:27 am
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:Also, comparing TOBs first recruiting classes when he was coming off a gambling scandal to Daz and his situation is absolutely insane, much more difficult to recruit for TOB than Daz. So in conclusion, TOB would have won 8-9 games in this ACC.
I can't do this again. From experience, I know there is no arguing with a Ginger-lover. Fine... enjoy your soulless life partner.
The league TOB was in was fucking terrible.
by Corporal Funishment on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:28 am
by Logitano on Fri Jun 23, 2017 11:51 am
TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:Also, comparing TOBs first recruiting classes when he was coming off a gambling scandal to Daz and his situation is absolutely insane, much more difficult to recruit for TOB than Daz. So in conclusion, TOB would have won 8-9 games in this ACC.
I can't do this again. From experience, I know there is no arguing with a Ginger-lover. Fine... enjoy your soulless life partner.
The league TOB was in was fucking terrible.
and he lost to rutgres
by DavidGordonsFoot on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:05 pm
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:CowboyEagle22 {l Wrote}:TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:QuailMan {l Wrote}:Just to be clear before the millennial nonsense starts, the kids in high school now are not millennials.
what are they being called even-worse-than-millennials?
They are called Gen-Z, as in Generation Zyklon, because they want to gas the Boomers. They really hate the Boomers, so maybe they are not so bad.
fuck "gen z" - i'm calling them "generation fidget spinners."
they claim that they hate the boomers and millennials but then project many of those groups' worst habits and stereotypes
The fidget spinner phenomenon is the end of the empire. Fucking morons.
by TobaccoRoadEagle on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:25 pm
Logitano {l Wrote}:TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:Also, comparing TOBs first recruiting classes when he was coming off a gambling scandal to Daz and his situation is absolutely insane, much more difficult to recruit for TOB than Daz. So in conclusion, TOB would have won 8-9 games in this ACC.
I can't do this again. From experience, I know there is no arguing with a Ginger-lover. Fine... enjoy your soulless life partner.
The league TOB was in was fucking terrible.
and he lost to rutgres
TOB lost to garden state u? I know TC did but don't remember TOB losing to them.
by DomingoOrtiz on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:35 pm
TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:Logitano {l Wrote}:TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:Also, comparing TOBs first recruiting classes when he was coming off a gambling scandal to Daz and his situation is absolutely insane, much more difficult to recruit for TOB than Daz. So in conclusion, TOB would have won 8-9 games in this ACC.
I can't do this again. From experience, I know there is no arguing with a Ginger-lover. Fine... enjoy your soulless life partner.
The league TOB was in was fucking terrible.
and he lost to rutgres
TOB lost to garden state u? I know TC did but don't remember TOB losing to them.
nope - you're right. in my haste to shit on coach daywalker i lumped in coach theoretical-national-championships bad loss to rutgres. he did lose to temple in his first game, though... which at the time may have been worse than losing to rutgres actually. it was before bill cosby was throwing around his quaalude money at temple
also lost to Temple in his 3rd season. TOB lost his first game as a HC in front of 5,085 fans!by Logitano on Fri Jun 23, 2017 12:46 pm
DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:Logitano {l Wrote}:TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:Also, comparing TOBs first recruiting classes when he was coming off a gambling scandal to Daz and his situation is absolutely insane, much more difficult to recruit for TOB than Daz. So in conclusion, TOB would have won 8-9 games in this ACC.
I can't do this again. From experience, I know there is no arguing with a Ginger-lover. Fine... enjoy your soulless life partner.
The league TOB was in was fucking terrible.
and he lost to rutgres
TOB lost to garden state u? I know TC did but don't remember TOB losing to them.
nope - you're right. in my haste to shit on coach daywalker i lumped in coach theoretical-national-championships bad loss to rutgres. he did lose to temple in his first game, though... which at the time may have been worse than losing to rutgres actually. it was before bill cosby was throwing around his quaalude money at temple
. by TobaccoRoadEagle on Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:27 pm
jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}: TOB lost his first game as a HC in front of 5,085 fans!
That's crazy. Yeah, I think TOB had a much more difficult job resurrecting the program than Daz.
Also, didn't see ATL's most recent blog post before now. Guess Athalon sports predicts 5-7 this year and also puts Daz as the worst coach in the ACC.
by DavidGordonsFoot on Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:52 pm
jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}: TOB lost his first game as a HC in front of 5,085 fans!
That's crazy. Yeah, I think TOB had a much more difficult job resurrecting the program than Daz.
Also, didn't see ATL's most recent blog post before now. Guess Athalon sports predicts 5-7 this year and also puts Daz as the worst coach in the ACC.
that's all well and good, but what did phil steele say?
by HJS on Fri Jun 23, 2017 1:58 pm
jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}: TOB lost his first game as a HC in front of 5,085 fans!
That's crazy. Yeah, I think TOB had a much more difficult job resurrecting the program than Daz.
by HJS on Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:03 pm
jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}: TOB lost his first game as a HC in front of 5,085 fans!
That's crazy. Yeah, I think TOB had a much more difficult job resurrecting the program than Daz.
That was not the Alumni Stadium crowd... the game was at Temple.
Point taken on attendance.
What is your point about the roster? I agree TOB probably inherited a better roster. I still maintain that TOB most definitely recruited better than Daz in a much more difficult environment to do so, which was my main point. Its impressive that TOB was able to turn BC around after the betting scandal and consecutive 4-7 seasons. I also think that in year 4-5 TOB probably would have gotten 8 wins even in this ACC. Just because I think TOB was a bit better than Daz doesn't mean that I think TOB was a good coach. He recruited better than Daz but consistently under performed and was nothing better than an average P5 coach. Daz is a bottom tier P5 coach.
by TobaccoRoadEagle on Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:12 pm
HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}: TOB lost his first game as a HC in front of 5,085 fans!
That's crazy. Yeah, I think TOB had a much more difficult job resurrecting the program than Daz.
That was not the Alumni Stadium crowd... the game was at Temple.
Point taken on attendance.
What is your point about the roster? I agree TOB probably inherited a better roster. I still maintain that TOB most definitely recruited better than Daz in a much more difficult environment to do so, which was my main point. Its impressive that TOB was able to turn BC around after the betting scandal and consecutive 4-7 seasons. I also think that in year 4-5 TOB probably would have gotten 8 wins even in this ACC. Just because I think TOB was a bit better than Daz doesn't mean that I think TOB was a good coach. He recruited better than Daz but consistently under performed and was nothing better than an average P5 coach. Daz is a bottom tier P5 coach.
The point is that there is no effing way that TOB inherited "a much more difficult environment" upon which to turn it around. The truth is that it isn't remotely even close. And those consecutive 4-7 campaigns had nothing to do with talent and everything to do with the coach.
by twballgame9 on Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:25 pm
jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}: TOB lost his first game as a HC in front of 5,085 fans!
That's crazy. Yeah, I think TOB had a much more difficult job resurrecting the program than Daz.
That was not the Alumni Stadium crowd... the game was at Temple.
Point taken on attendance.
What is your point about the roster? I agree TOB probably inherited a better roster. I still maintain that TOB most definitely recruited better than Daz in a much more difficult environment to do so, which was my main point. Its impressive that TOB was able to turn BC around after the betting scandal and consecutive 4-7 seasons. I also think that in year 4-5 TOB probably would have gotten 8 wins even in this ACC. Just because I think TOB was a bit better than Daz doesn't mean that I think TOB was a good coach. He recruited better than Daz but consistently under performed and was nothing better than an average P5 coach. Daz is a bottom tier P5 coach.
The point is that there is no effing way that TOB inherited "a much more difficult environment" upon which to turn it around. The truth is that it isn't remotely even close. And those consecutive 4-7 campaigns had nothing to do with talent and everything to do with the coach.
Do you realize how detrimental a betting scandal is for a program, regardless of the roster makeup? You aren't taking that into account at all. But this is a tertiary point anyway
Regardless of how difficult it was to turn the program around initially, Daz is no TOB, which is the whole point of this discussion. TWB hit the nail on the head, the two have different self imposed ceilings.twballgame9 {l Wrote}:He's TOB with less talent, so his self-set bar of underachievement is 6-6/7-5 instead of 8-4/9-3
And I don't see Daz getting much better talent than he already gets, which even you said yourself...HJS {l Wrote}: In my mind, Daz has just recruited BC from the depths of college football to talent roughly equivalent to that of TOBs first few years. I don't think Daz will be able to do much beyond that.
by 2001Eagle on Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:27 pm
HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}: TOB lost his first game as a HC in front of 5,085 fans!
That's crazy. Yeah, I think TOB had a much more difficult job resurrecting the program than Daz.
That was not the Alumni Stadium crowd... the game was at Temple.
1997 Roster
Matt Hasselbeck QB
Scott Mutryn QB
Omari Walker RB
Michael Hemmert RB
Mike Cloud RB
Quinton Lee RB
Frank Chamberlin RB
Anthony DiCosmo WR
Dennis Harding WR
Jermaine Walker WR
Derrick Crittenden WR
Mike Guazzo WR
Todd Pollack TE
Scott Dragos TE
Rob Tardio TE
Doug Brzezinski OL
Noah LaRose OL
Jon Miles OL
Andy Mitcham OL
Damien Woody OL
Chris Hovan DL
Andrew Krauza DL
Mike Willetts DL
Greg Bartlett LB
Markell Blount* LB
Brooke Heald* LB
Erick Storz* LB
Adam Newman LB
Bobby Edmonds LB
Pedro Cirino* DB
Carlton Rowe* DB
Shalom Tolefree* DB
George White* DB
D.J. Sutton DB
by hansen on Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:30 pm
jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:HJS {l Wrote}:jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}: TOB lost his first game as a HC in front of 5,085 fans!
That's crazy. Yeah, I think TOB had a much more difficult job resurrecting the program than Daz.
That was not the Alumni Stadium crowd... the game was at Temple.
Point taken on attendance.
What is your point about the roster? I agree TOB probably inherited a better roster. I still maintain that TOB most definitely recruited better than Daz in a much more difficult environment to do so, which was my main point. Its impressive that TOB was able to turn BC around after the betting scandal and consecutive 4-7 seasons. I also think that in year 4-5 TOB probably would have gotten 8 wins even in this ACC. Just because I think TOB was a bit better than Daz doesn't mean that I think TOB was a good coach. He recruited better than Daz but consistently under performed and was nothing better than an average P5 coach. Daz is a bottom tier P5 coach.DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:I collected all 30 covers of the 2017 Sporting News CFB Season Preview issue.
Some fun articles ranking Daz for 2017
ACC Rank 14-14
https://athlonsports.com/college-footba ... aches-2017
P5 Rank 54-65
http://www.cbssports.com/college-footba ... ked-65-26/
5 most overpaid coach in D1 football
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2702 ... ball-today
.
by Eaglekeeper on Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:52 am
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