Official Gameday Thread - BC vs. Duke - 10/3/2015

[hansen]

you know what gets sucked the least? your broccoli penis

Fixed

[eagle9903]

yay - spaz was a little good for one year.

boo - spaz was less than good for two years.

the prognosticators were wrong for one year and you prognosticators should feel bad about your prognostications in that one year. the prognosticators were correct for at least two years (and some could argue three years but i'm not getting into that argument) and those prognosticators should feel good about your prognostications in those two years. however, the prognosticators shouldn't feel too good because if they like bc football they should not be happy about 4-8 and/or 2-10.

this conversations is starting to show signs of microbroccolipenis

they should use hansen in the microbroccolipenis PSA commercial

It should be like that don't transport firewood infomercial that was on Raycom all the time.

Don't Move MicroBroccoliPenis.

The Problem
Regular penii are being destroyed
through the transportation
of invasive microbroccolipenii on Hansen and eepstein.

For the record, my penis is neither small nor shaped like broccoli. Not sure where this also broccoli shaped penis gimmick came from anyway.

Ok, sorry for interrupting this riveting discussion of which QB sucks less.

If you didn't have broccoli micropenis why would so many eo posts say you do?

[hansen]

yay - spaz was a little good for one year.

boo - spaz was less than good for two years.

the prognosticators were wrong for one year and you prognosticators should feel bad about your prognostications in that one year. the prognosticators were correct for at least two years (and some could argue three years but i'm not getting into that argument) and those prognosticators should feel good about your prognostications in those two years. however, the prognosticators shouldn't feel too good because if they like bc football they should not be happy about 4-8 and/or 2-10.

this conversations is starting to show signs of microbroccolipenis

they should use hansen in the microbroccolipenis PSA commercial

It should be like that don't transport firewood infomercial that was on Raycom all the time.

Don't Move MicroBroccoliPenis.

The Problem
Regular penii are being destroyed
through the transportation
of invasive microbroccolipenii on Hansen and eepstein.

For the record, my penis is neither small nor shaped like broccoli. Not sure where this also broccoli shaped penis gimmick came from anyway.

Ok, sorry for interrupting this riveting discussion of which QB sucks less.

If you didn't have broccoli micropenis why would so many eo posts say you do?

My mistake. I forgot that everything you read on the Internet is true.

[eepstein0]

Watching this game on NESN now.

We have the slowest developing run plays. Those all need to be scrapped

[twballgame9]

Watching this game on NESN now.

We have the slowest developing run plays. Those all need to be scrapped

But, but, the 1983 Redskins ran the counter trey to a super bowl!

[eepstein0]

Watching this game on NESN now.

We have the slowest developing run plays. Those all need to be scrapped

But, but, the 1983 Redskins ran the counter trey to a super bowl!

It works in Madden!

[dtwalrus]

Watching this game on NESN now.

We have the slowest developing run plays. Those all need to be scrapped

But, but, the 1983 Redskins ran the counter trey to a super bowl!

It works in Madden!

The power stacked formations are just absolutely not working this year. The OLine may open a hole in the defensive front, but by the time the back gets to the hole it's being closed by LB's or even Safeties. Power stacked is garbage this year and it's 90% of our run plays (with Flutie on the field).

[twballgame9]

Watching this game on NESN now.

We have the slowest developing run plays. Those all need to be scrapped

But, but, the 1983 Redskins ran the counter trey to a super bowl!

It works in Madden!

The power stacked formations are just absolutely not working this year. The OLine may open a hole in the defensive front, but by the time the back gets to the hole it's being closed by LB's or even Safeties. Power stacked is garbage this year and it's 90% of our run plays (with Flutie on the field).

It has nothing to do with the formation and everything to do with how long the play takes to develop. That said, I agree with you that they should run more spread with Smith.

[dtwalrus]

Listening to Daz's Monday presser, he just strikes me as a coach that doesn't get it and I hear a lot of excuses. If he thinks this offense is growing and showing progress as he says, he doesn't have a clue.

unlike his former line of work, he's not going to get saved by vince mcmahon and his script writers. the iron sheik and nicoli volkoff aren't just going to make some unexplainable error. no, the sheik is going to keep loading up his funny little boots and kick us in the throat until we submit.

i'm hoping that he realizes this someday, before it is too late.

#beadudebutbuyaclue

I get the frustration, but this is totally fucking bullshit. There's a difference between excuses and realities.

Excuse: We had some injuries and therefor we can't possibly win.
Reality: We lost our starting QB, and the roster was so thin that now our choices are a 2* redshirt freshman or a 3* true freshman (who earned 3*'s as an ATH and...not many/any P5 QB offers).
Reality: Not many teams can win with freshman QB's and I would say no team EVER will EVER win with a 2-or-3 star freshman QB. The freshman than come in and win are 4-and-5 star studs surrounded by other studs or lots of experience.
Reality: After Spaz's disaster years of (9,6,4, 2) no wins, even an exciting and by all accounts GOOD recruiter like Daz hasn't been able to bring in studs that can step in as freshman to fill the voids.

The QB situation is a big issue and I don't think it's fair to say that Daz is "making excuses."

BUT EVEN MORE

The QB situation isn't the biggest issue. The biggest issue is the OLine. And I don't think anyone can say that Daz is making excuses on that front. Every presser he's talked about how the OLine isn't living up to potential, that they need to be more consistent and get better. And every presser he talks about how that's his and the other coaches' jobs to do that and that he's not satisfied with the results.

Look, nobody's going to be happy if this team doesn't make a bowl. But in the grand scheme of things many people expected BC to take a step back this year, even before we lost our starting QB and starting RB. But there is no reason to panic or start calling for heads to roll even if BC only wins 4 this year. This is not the Spaz years. There is zero correlation. Talking about win totals is completely inadequate for comparing the two.

Spaz: Players hated playing for him and it became obvious quickly that there wasn't much fight in the team.
Daz: Players love playing for him and the team can never be accused of not given 100%.
Spaz: No cohesion in coaching philosophy and coaches literally throwing punches because of how much they disagreed with leadership from the top.
Daz: By all accounts the coaches love coaching for Daz and are all working well together.
Spaz: Turtled up and played to protect defensive stats even with 9-win talent on the field.
Daz: Playing with a 4-win-talent offense and a 10-win-talent defense. Maybe not a popular opinion, but offensive caution might be "the right way" to scheme this year.
Spaz: Terrible recruiting. No enthusiasm whatsoever. No salesmanship whatsoever. Basically the kids that came came despite Spaz, not because of him.
Daz: By all accounts solid recruiting. Lots of enthusiasm. Great salesman. If he ever has a consistent top 25 team at BC to sell to recruits, recruiting can still get a whole lot better.
Spaz: Really bad time management. Terrible use of time outs. Probably poor understanding of the micros of game management.
Daz: Really bad time management. Terrible use of time outs. Probably poor understanding of the micros of game management.

Ok, so there similar in that last respect but for me that isn't a dealbreaker. I'm hoping Daz learns from his mistakes. In relative terms he's still a very young head coach who has only ever coached bottom-to-middle of the road talent-level teams. Once the team gets better maybe he learns to trust his players more and to be more aggressive...and learns how to use timeouts.

[twballgame9]

Daz needs to hire an offensive coordinator and focus on recruiting, being a leader and firing up the troops.

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

in college football injuries happen. most coaches do not get a never-ending excuse of "we're just so young and can't possibly be expected to compete"

how many years of recruits does the sarge get before these bullshit excuses can go away? does he need 6 years or is that too much of a rush?

[dtwalrus]

in college football injuries happen. most coaches do not get a never-ending excuse of "we're just so young and can't possibly be expected to compete"

how many years of recruits does the sarge get before these bullshit excuses can go away? does he need 6 years or is that too much of a rush?

Well, for QB I think most coaches at colleges like BC need more than 2.5 years. If you're relying on a 3* to develop into a solid starter you need at least 2 years I would imagine. Sophomore year at the earliest. Wade was supposed to be that guy.

QB Recruits:
2013: Mackie Lowry and James Walsh -- both pro style, both transfered. (Daz took over in December. 2 months of recruiting a QB to a 2-win team with lots of question marks, came up dry. Surprise surprise)
2014: Darius Wade and Troy Flutie
2015: Elijah Robinson and Jeff Smith.

Seriously, look at that and tell me that Daz should be doing better with the QB situation right now. Seriously? Maybe you can say he shouldn't have allowed Robinson to switch positions, but without knowing that Wade would go down and knowing that you've got Anthony Brown coming in and Jeff Smith coming up, and considering that Robinson has potential at WR (a position of need) I don't think you can blame him for that. So what are you upset about on the QB roster situation?

As for how many years, not 6. But realistically we've got 2 years of Daz recruits on board. Maybe you could say 2.5, but really just 2. Sit back, deal with the frustration, and let's give it 3 at least. Probably a full 4.

[dtwalrus]

Daz needs to hire an offensive coordinator and focus on recruiting, being a leader and firing up the troops.

Or again, he's still only in his 5th season of head coaching. I'm still hoping that he can recognize the mistakes in game management and improve. This isn't exactly a Gary Tranquilizer situation.

[twballgame9]

Daz needs to hire an offensive coordinator and focus on recruiting, being a leader and firing up the troops.

Or again, he's still only in his 5th season of head coaching. I'm still hoping that he can recognize the mistakes in game management and improve. This isn't exactly a Gary Tranquilizer situation.

No, it is more like this:

[eagle9903]

in college football injuries happen. most coaches do not get a never-ending excuse of "we're just so young and can't possibly be expected to compete"

how many years of recruits does the sarge get before these bullshit excuses can go away? does he need 6 years or is that too much of a rush?

Ughh, I'm seriously responding to a TRE sports post. I hate myself. But getting two actual recruiting classes on campus is a pretty fair minimum answer. Having a single upperclassman he recruited out of high school (Walsh and Rouse and the fifteen minutes that wasn't a dead period in december 2012 through february 2013 don't count in my opinion), should be the minimum before you should stop taking into account the prior coach's programicide.

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

in college football injuries happen. most coaches do not get a never-ending excuse of "we're just so young and can't possibly be expected to compete"

how many years of recruits does the sarge get before these bullshit excuses can go away? does he need 6 years or is that too much of a rush?

Ughh, I'm seriously responding to a TRE sports post. I hate myself. But getting two actual recruiting classes on campus is a pretty fair minimum answer. Having a single upperclassman he recruited out of high school (Walsh and Rouse and the fifteen minutes that wasn't a dead period in december 2012 through february 2013 don't count in my opinion), should be the minimum before you should stop taking into account the prior coach's programicide.

so then we can't judge jags for his recruiting because he wasn't at bc long enough.

just want to make sure i understand all the parameters and when they apply/don't apply as it relates to whether they fit/don't fit an agenda

[DomingoOrtiz]

Daz needs to hire an offensive coordinator and focus on recruiting, being a leader and firing up the troops.

This

[basselope]

in college football injuries happen. most coaches do not get a never-ending excuse of "we're just so young and can't possibly be expected to compete"

how many years of recruits does the sarge get before these bullshit excuses can go away? does he need 6 years or is that too much of a rush?

Well, for QB I think most coaches at colleges like BC need more than 2.5 years. If you're relying on a 3* to develop into a solid starter you need at least 2 years I would imagine. Sophomore year at the earliest. Wade was supposed to be that guy.

QB Recruits:
2013: Mackie Lowry and James Walsh -- both pro style, both transfered. (Daz took over in December. 2 months of recruiting a QB to a 2-win team with lots of question marks, came up dry. Surprise surprise)
2014: Darius Wade and Troy Flutie
2015: Elijah Robinson and Jeff Smith.

Seriously, look at that and tell me that Daz should be doing better with the QB situation right now. Seriously? Maybe you can say he shouldn't have allowed Robinson to switch positions, but without knowing that Wade would go down and knowing that you've got Anthony Brown coming in and Jeff Smith coming up, and considering that Robinson has potential at WR (a position of need) I don't think you can blame him for that. So what are you upset about on the QB roster situation?

As for how many years, not 6. But realistically we've got 2 years of Daz recruits on board. Maybe you could say 2.5, but really just 2. Sit back, deal with the frustration, and let's give it 3 at least. Probably a full 4.

Actually Walsh was recruited to BC by Daz & was more of a Dual threat QB.
He flipped from Ohio U to BC in late Jan.

I am not sure why he stop playing Football.
Everything I saw of him indicated he would have been decent and maybe he would be starting right now.

Not everybody is cut out for College FB and maybe he decided to just be a student.

[eagle9903]

in college football injuries happen. most coaches do not get a never-ending excuse of "we're just so young and can't possibly be expected to compete"

how many years of recruits does the sarge get before these bullshit excuses can go away? does he need 6 years or is that too much of a rush?

Ughh, I'm seriously responding to a TRE sports post. I hate myself. But getting two actual recruiting classes on campus is a pretty fair minimum answer. Having a single upperclassman he recruited out of high school (Walsh and Rouse and the fifteen minutes that wasn't a dead period in december 2012 through february 2013 don't count in my opinion), should be the minimum before you should stop taking into account the prior coach's programicide.

so then we can't judge jags for his recruiting because he wasn't at bc long enough.

just want to make sure i understand all the parameters and when they apply/don't apply as it relates to whether they fit/don't fit an agenda

No, that doesn't make sense either. I also realize that I meant three.

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

in college football injuries happen. most coaches do not get a never-ending excuse of "we're just so young and can't possibly be expected to compete"

how many years of recruits does the sarge get before these bullshit excuses can go away? does he need 6 years or is that too much of a rush?

Ughh, I'm seriously responding to a TRE sports post. I hate myself. But getting two actual recruiting classes on campus is a pretty fair minimum answer. Having a single upperclassman he recruited out of high school (Walsh and Rouse and the fifteen minutes that wasn't a dead period in december 2012 through february 2013 don't count in my opinion), should be the minimum before you should stop taking into account the prior coach's programicide.

so then we can't judge jags for his recruiting because he wasn't at bc long enough.

just want to make sure i understand all the parameters and when they apply/don't apply as it relates to whether they fit/don't fit an agenda

No, that doesn't make sense either. I also realize that I meant three.

and yet i'm the one accused of not liking sports...

[eagle9903]

in college football injuries happen. most coaches do not get a never-ending excuse of "we're just so young and can't possibly be expected to compete"

how many years of recruits does the sarge get before these bullshit excuses can go away? does he need 6 years or is that too much of a rush?

Ughh, I'm seriously responding to a TRE sports post. I hate myself. But getting two actual recruiting classes on campus is a pretty fair minimum answer. Having a single upperclassman he recruited out of high school (Walsh and Rouse and the fifteen minutes that wasn't a dead period in december 2012 through february 2013 don't count in my opinion), should be the minimum before you should stop taking into account the prior coach's programicide.

so then we can't judge jags for his recruiting because he wasn't at bc long enough.

just want to make sure i understand all the parameters and when they apply/don't apply as it relates to whether they fit/don't fit an agenda

No, that doesn't make sense either. I also realize that I meant three.

and yet i'm the one accused of not liking sports...

Yes, that is an accusation that has been made.

Here is the more drawn out and maybe sort of proof read version of my original response: Taken as a whole (there are exceptions on a team-to-team basis I imagine) the significant majority of players on any top 40 college football team two deep are upperclassmen, the size of the majority is even more extreme for starting lineups. True Juniors/RS Sophomores or above.

For a coach that inherits a bad roster, until he has three recruiting classes on campus, this means the majority of his starters and depth are either coming from the bad roster or are starting or on the depth chart before they should be.

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

so if wade gets hurt again next year does that mean we'll still suck because we'll still be stuck with the same qbs that can't seem to do anything and a true freshman that should be expected to suck because he hasn't been in school for three years?

and if, because of that reason, we still suck - can we still trust the staff or are we finally allowed to suggest that maybe the staff has some deficiencies that could/should be improved upon?

[31southst]

so if wade gets hurt again next year does that mean we'll still suck because we'll still be stuck with the same qbs that can't seem to do anything and a true freshman that should be expected to suck because he hasn't been in school for three years?

and if, because of that reason, we still suck - can we still trust the staff or are we finally allowed to suggest that maybe the staff has some deficiencies that could/should be improved upon?

Follow up question - is it an excuse that Wade is inexperienced as a starter next year, notwithstanding having experienced QBs backing him up?

[dtwalrus]

so if wade gets hurt again next year does that mean we'll still suck because we'll still be stuck with the same qbs that can't seem to do anything and a true freshman that should be expected to suck because he hasn't been in school for three years?

No. If Wade still can't go in 2016, it's on Daz if either Smith, Flutie or some one else can't step up and at least run a reasonably competent offense. Regardless of Flutie's or Smith's star ratings out of high school, with them both having a full year of reps with the first team offense (even splitting snaps) that should be the expectation. After all, that would be drastically different circumstances than the current situation, where our returning starter (with like 3 games of experience) went down and our two backups had ZERO experience and were fresh out of high school.

Now with that said, if Wade can't go in 2016 for whatever reason AND THEN early in 2016 BOTH Flutie AND Smith get injured, then yes, we should expect to suck because we would again be reliant on either a walk-on who isn't going to get any action this year (Fadule) or a 3* straight out of high school (Anthony Brown).

This isn't that complicated. Inexperienced, non-blue-chip freshman QB's are going to struggle playing P5 college football and therefore you can expect any team reliant on such a QB to struggle. I'm perfectly ok with this blanket statement. Can anyone produce a counter example? 3* true freshman leading a team to a conference championship or some other really impressive season?

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

so if wade gets hurt again next year does that mean we'll still suck because we'll still be stuck with the same qbs that can't seem to do anything and a true freshman that should be expected to suck because he hasn't been in school for three years?

No. If Wade still can't go in 2016, it's on Daz if either Smith, Flutie or some one else can't step up and at least run a reasonably competent offense. Regardless of Flutie's or Smith's star ratings out of high school, with them both having a full year of reps with the first team offense (even splitting snaps) that should be the expectation. After all, that would be drastically different circumstances than the current situation, where our returning starter (with like 3 games of experience) went down and our two backups had ZERO experience and were fresh out of high school.

Now with that said, if Wade can't go in 2016 for whatever reason AND THEN early in 2016 BOTH Flutie AND Smith get injured, then yes, we should expect to suck because we would again be reliant on either a walk-on who isn't going to get any action this year (Fadule) or a 3* straight out of high school (Anthony Brown).

This isn't that complicated. Inexperienced, non-blue-chip freshman QB's are going to struggle playing P5 college football and therefore you can expect any team reliant on such a QB to struggle. I'm perfectly ok with this blanket statement. Can anyone produce a counter example? 3* true freshman leading a team to a conference championship or some other really impressive season?

so every time an experienced quarterback graduates, the coach gets a break for the next year because the new quarterback has never had any on-field reps.

how do other teams manage to keep their quarterbacks on campus so long to prevent them from having to go through this year of terrible every time a qb gets hurt or graduates? these academic requirements that bc puts on themselves just aren't fair

[dtwalrus]

so if wade gets hurt again next year does that mean we'll still suck because we'll still be stuck with the same qbs that can't seem to do anything and a true freshman that should be expected to suck because he hasn't been in school for three years?

and if, because of that reason, we still suck - can we still trust the staff or are we finally allowed to suggest that maybe the staff has some deficiencies that could/should be improved upon?

Follow up question - is it an excuse that Wade is inexperienced as a starter next year, notwithstanding having experienced QBs backing him up?

If, even after a year of experience, Flutie and Smith continue to look like they currently do and just do not have what it takes to play QB at this level, that's clearly on the coaches. But if the staff decides Wade is the best option, we should still expect rookie mistakes. After all, Wade only has like 5 games experience. It might adjust our championship-expectations for 2016.

[dtwalrus]

so if wade gets hurt again next year does that mean we'll still suck because we'll still be stuck with the same qbs that can't seem to do anything and a true freshman that should be expected to suck because he hasn't been in school for three years?

No. If Wade still can't go in 2016, it's on Daz if either Smith, Flutie or some one else can't step up and at least run a reasonably competent offense. Regardless of Flutie's or Smith's star ratings out of high school, with them both having a full year of reps with the first team offense (even splitting snaps) that should be the expectation. After all, that would be drastically different circumstances than the current situation, where our returning starter (with like 3 games of experience) went down and our two backups had ZERO experience and were fresh out of high school.

Now with that said, if Wade can't go in 2016 for whatever reason AND THEN early in 2016 BOTH Flutie AND Smith get injured, then yes, we should expect to suck because we would again be reliant on either a walk-on who isn't going to get any action this year (Fadule) or a 3* straight out of high school (Anthony Brown).

This isn't that complicated. Inexperienced, non-blue-chip freshman QB's are going to struggle playing P5 college football and therefore you can expect any team reliant on such a QB to struggle. I'm perfectly ok with this blanket statement. Can anyone produce a counter example? 3* true freshman leading a team to a conference championship or some other really impressive season?

so every time an experienced quarterback graduates, the coach gets a break for the next year because the new quarterback has never had any on-field reps.

how do other teams manage to keep their quarterbacks on campus so long to prevent them from having to go through this year of terrible every time a qb gets hurt or graduates? these academic requirements that bc puts on themselves just isn't fair

They recruit QB's. Unfortunately for Daz, he inherited a senior QB with no talented QB recruits behind him. There was a 3 year gap in QB talent on the roster.

[twballgame9]

I actually agree with the Merrymen on this one. At BC, where you are not drawing 5* athletes, you get more than 2 recruiting cycles to rebuild a roster that has little to no talent after the senior class. But you don't get more than three.

[dtwalrus]

Seriously, look at the QB recruiting in recent years:

QB Recruits:
2009: Mike Marscovetra and Dave Shinski
2010: Chase Rettig and Josh Bordner
2011: Christian Suntrup
2012: NONE
2013: Mackie Lowry and James Walsh -- both pro style, both transfered. (Daz took over in December. 2 months of recruiting a QB to a 2-win team with lots of question marks, came up dry. Surprise surprise)
2014: Darius Wade and Troy Flutie
2015: Elijah Robinson and Jeff Smith.
2016: Anthony Brown (hopefully)

Right now our QB should be coming from the 2011, 2012 or 2013 classes. Look at those classes and tell me what Daz is supposed to do about that. Now look at the 2014, 2015 and 2016 classes and see that Daz is in fact doing good things for the QB position. They just need time to develop.

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

Seriously, look at the QB recruiting in recent years:

QB Recruits:
2009: Mike Marscovetra and Dave Shinski
2010: Chase Rettig and Josh Bordner
2011: Christian Suntrup
2012: NONE
2013: Mackie Lowry and James Walsh -- both pro style, both transfered. (Daz took over in December. 2 months of recruiting a QB to a 2-win team with lots of question marks, came up dry. Surprise surprise)
2014: Darius Wade and Troy Flutie
2015: Elijah Robinson and Jeff Smith.

Right now our QB should be coming from the 2011, 2012 or 2013 classes. Look at those classes and tell me what Daz is supposed to do about that.

find 5th years or jucos.

pick one of the two starting quarterbacks that you have and develop an offense that will work for them and not a bi-polar approach of throwing two different non-working solutions at the same problem.

new question - how long does it take to develop an o-line at a school like bc. (caveat - does that time grow shorter if you are allegedly a "oline and running backs expert")?