POLL: Why the Decline in Attendance

[dtwalrus]

I was actually looking at the numbers today and was kind of blown away by the stats. Beyond the raw numbers, we had 13 sellouts between 2000 and 2007, and only three sellouts in the last 7 years, all coming against Notre Dame. I've got some theories on my own, but I'm kind of curious what everyone attributes it to.

If you're curious:
2000 - 39,327
2001 - 42,640
2002 - 41,106
2003 - 42,604
2004 - 43,190
2005 - 39,429
2006 - 38,843
2007 - 41,990
2008 - 41,037
2009 - 35,716
2010 - 38,369
2011 - 35,709
2012 - 37,020
2013 - 33,006
2014 - 34,270

[twballgame9]

Fans that don't care about football. It's always been a problem but in the 90s and early 00s they showed up for the second quarter.

[dtwalrus]

Counterpoint to the "Too Many Cupcakes" votes:
- UMass drew 43K and 44K in '03 and '07 respectiively
- Northeastern drew 42K in '99.
- UConn drew 42.5K in '04.

All of which are significantly better than the draw for #9 USC in 2014.

[StratEagle]

Spaz wiped out a chunk of our season ticket holder base and general credibility as a program. Many of those people aren't gonna come running back for seasons where bowl eligibility is the main goal. Also technology makes the whole situation worse.

Find a way to fill the goddamn stadium if you have to pass these tickets out on the street.

[b0mberMan]

It's because you touch yourself at night

[dtwalrus]

It's because you touch yourself at night

Counterpoint, I'm fairly certain that touching selves at night was more common in '03.

[commavegarage]

post next to those attendance numbers our top in conference & out of conference home game each year and the highest ranked we were in a home game.

youll find your answer

[claver2010]

price point is incredibly off

no one is dropping $55 per ticket just to get in the building. make a section $20 and see how quickly that fills up

[eepstein0]

price point is incredibly off

no one is dropping $55 per ticket just to get in the building. make a section $20 and see how quickly that fills up

This this this.

[eagle9903]

CAG said to look at best conference/OOC opponent and highest BC rank:

2000 - 39,327 top home conference: Va Tech (4); top home OOC: UConn/Navy: BC unranked all year
2001 - 42,640 top home conference: Miami (1); top home ND: BC 25th going into Cuse loss
2002 - 41,106 top home conference: Va Tech (4); top home OOC Stanford: BC unranked all year
2003 - 42,604 top home conference: Miami (2); top home OOC ND: BC unranked all year also had ranked Pitt at home and Wake OOC
2004 - 43,190 top home conference: Syracuse; top home OOC Penn State: BC 17 going into Cuse loss Ferri game
2005 - 39,429 top home conference: FSU (8); top home OOC Army: BC 13 going into VA Tech loss
2006 - 38,843 top home conference: Clemson (18); top home OOC BYU: BC 16 going into Wake Loss
2007 - 41,990 top home conference: FSU/Miami; top home OOC Army: BC 2 going into FSU loss
2008 - 41,037 top home conference: Va Tech (17); top home OOC ND: BC 18 going into VA Tech loss in ACC champ
2009 - 35,716 top home conference: FSU; top home OOC Central Michigan: BC unranked all year -Spaz
2010 - 38,369 top home conference: Clemson/Va Tech; top home OOC ND: BC unranked all year - Spaz
2011 - 35,709 top home conference: FSU; top home OOC Northwestern: BC unranked all year -Spaz
2012 - 37,020 top home conference: Clemson (17); top home OOC ND (4): BC unranked all year -Spaz
2013 - 33,006 top home conference: FSU (8); top home OOC Army: BC unranked all year
2014 - 34,270 top home conference: Clemson (24); top home OOC USC (9): BC unranked all year

I found this to be pretty inconclusive really. 2004 has the highest attendance on the list and was probably bottom 3 home schedules. That was the year the U and Va Tech had left already. The team was pretty good that year admittedly. Was 2005 the beginning of DBS? I can't think of why else there would have been a drop like that.

[DomingoOrtiz]

13% dropoff to welcome Spazarelli

[Dick Rosenthal]

I used to regularly attend home games, but have not done so for a few years now. Aside from the normal family development where my kids are now old enough that they are playing football in the fall--daughter is playing soccer (girl's soccer being the only acceptable form of an otherwise useless sport)--which constricts the ability to travel for a Saturday game, the other part of it is the gameday experience, which still thoroughly sucks. Even if you are like me and willing and able to shell out the money to have prime on campus parking, great seats, etc., at the end of the day, the time it takes to get into your space and the time constraints placed on tailgating, catching up with friends, etc. makes it not worth it. A football weekend is supposed to be entertaining and on some level a time to unwind. There just isn't time to do it at BC and the Jack Booted Thugs pestering people only devalues an at best precarious value proposition.

Living in DC, it is a much easier pull for me to drive to any of the Virginia or North Carolina schools--or even Clemson, where the game day experience is either exponentially better or at the least, far less of a hassle. With the addition of Pitt, I now have another place to watch BC that is within four hours of driving and offers better facilities and game day experience.

The bottom line is that BC must significantly improve the on field product to get people to come to an experience that otherwise sucks. It's a shame to, because the atmosphere in he early 90s was about as good as it was anywhere--Win, Lose, Booze.

[DuchesneEast]

Dick brings up an interesting point. As BC attracts a more national student body, there arent as many local alums that can go to games each week. How many of us live outside of a 2 hour drive from alumni. Trips to BC arent spur of the moment for many of us.

Also the proliferation of other responsibilities that werent there 10 years ago, makes a big dent. Dick's kids have soccer, mine have art class and gymnastics. Every kid has something now.

[2001Eagle]

Why isn't Quidditch one of the voting options?

[BCSUPERFAN22]

I dont know the specifics about the donors who park in our lot (Robsham), but there are plenty of empty spots every week. I dont konw if those are people who are paying into the DBS program/tickets and are just not showing up, or if its a lack of people interested in paying for the DBS program (my guess is theyre not selling all hte potential spots), but the tailgating problem can be partially fixed by adjusting the DBS program and letting more people affordably park on campus. The main Robsham lot and the parking spots going up towards the stadium (next to the plex) are all largely empty. It is a perfect example of addition by subtraction. Bates would probably increase the amount of money donated to DBS by lowering the overall cost and filling up the lots. Makes it easier for many to tailgate and sells more tickets.

The ticket pricing is a major problem, but Bates has to do everything in his power to get as many people on campus to park/tailgate as possible.

On a slight side note, why does BC continue to give students such premium seating ? The student section comes all the way over to section E. Comparable seats on the opposite side of the stadium sell for $75/seat. You would think that Bates wouldn't be wasting prime real estate/revenue on student seats when you could put the nerds them across that end zone and in the corresponding upper endzone.

[DomingoOrtiz]

I dont know the specifics about the donors who park in our lot (Robsham), but there are plenty of empty spots every week. I dont konw if those are people who are paying into the DBS program/tickets and are just not showing up, or if its a lack of people interested in paying for the DBS program (my guess is theyre not selling all hte potential spots), but the tailgating problem can be partially fixed by adjusting the DBS program and letting more people affordably park on campus. The main Robsham lot and the parking spots going up towards the stadium (next to the plex) are all largely empty. It is a perfect example of addition by subtraction. Bates would probably increase the amount of money donated to DBS by lowering the overall cost and filling up the lots. Makes it easier for many to tailgate and sells more tickets.

They are not showing up. In June, there were 6 available Robsham spots out 178 spots.

[Dick Rosenthal]

Also the proliferation of other responsibilities that werent there 10 years ago, makes a big dent. Dick's kids have soccer, mine have art class and gymnastics. Every kid has something now.

No son of mine will ever, ever, ever play soccer.

[DuxEagle26]

If you build it, they will come. (meaning the program)

Don't expect to see corners full until this team wins 10 games in a season

[DavidGordonsFoot]

Gene's DBS implementation was the first domino. His refusal to grandfather-in a significant percentage of the season ticket base cost the program a lot of loyal fans who had been attending games for decades. Fans who would have sat through Spaz and would still be attending today.

The Spaz debacle was the next nail in the coffin. It wasn't the hire itself that tarnished the image of the program as much as it was the way the Jagodzinski/Jets thing was handled and the fraudulent coaching search that followed. The series of events sent a message to fans that BC wasn't committed to growing the program.

The final reason wasn't an option in the poll - people aren't going to games anymore. I just saw tweets from Texas' interim AD complaining about empty seats in Texas Memorial Stadium. Only 44K tix were sold for that Wisconsin/Alabama game at Jerry World. People are taking their entertainment time & dollar elsewhere all over the country, and I don't know where that is.

[dtwalrus]

price point is incredibly off

no one is dropping $55 per ticket just to get in the building. make a section $20 and see how quickly that fills up

How much were the tickets in the early 2000's? When was the ticket price jump? Anyone remember. This is tough to look up online. A $35 per seat jump for the cheap seats could be a major factor.

[dtwalrus]

price point is incredibly off

no one is dropping $55 per ticket just to get in the building. make a section $20 and see how quickly that fills up

How much were the tickets in the early 2000's? When was the ticket price jump? Anyone remember. This is tough to look up online. A $35 per seat jump for the cheap seats could be a major factor.

[HJS]

It is a national trend brought about by Obama's economy and the proliferation of every game being available in high definition.

That said, to the extent that it is more heightened at BC (which I am not entirely convinced is true), it is likely due to (1) the small/Nationally-diverse alumni base, (2) Spazification causing folks to become comfortable with watching games on iPads and (3) the terrible tailgating situation.

Like Dick, I donate and I used to buy tickets and regularly make the journey from NYC. However, the effort and time sacrificed to attend simply do not equal the reward of being hassled for 90-minutes in a half-filled lot where "tailgating" is allegedly "permitted". The tailgating element is what keeps fans coming back even when the team sucks. If you aren't offering that, you are left exclusively with the on-field product to attract attendance. Quite frankly, you have to go back to Matty Ice and Jags to find a time when the product was worth the time and money investment to attend.

Dropping ticket prices to virtually nothing will help get locals to attend. Opening the floodgates on tailgating will help get donors and alums to attend. Winning at an elite level will attract both. The fact that BC has elected "D - None of the Above" and still gets 77% of the seats filled during the season is a quite honestly a testament to a very loyal (and long-suffering) fanbase.

[dtwalrus]

I used to regularly attend home games, but have not done so for a few years now. Aside from the normal family development where my kids are now old enough that they are playing football in the fall--daughter is playing soccer (girl's soccer being the only acceptable form of an otherwise useless sport)--which constricts the ability to travel for a Saturday game, the other part of it is the gameday experience, which still thoroughly sucks. Even if you are like me and willing and able to shell out the money to have prime on campus parking, great seats, etc., at the end of the day, the time it takes to get into your space and the time constraints placed on tailgating, catching up with friends, etc. makes it not worth it. A football weekend is supposed to be entertaining and on some level a time to unwind. There just isn't time to do it at BC and the Jack Booted Thugs pestering people only devalues an at best precarious value proposition.

Living in DC, it is a much easier pull for me to drive to any of the Virginia or North Carolina schools--or even Clemson, where the game day experience is either exponentially better or at the least, far less of a hassle. With the addition of Pitt, I now have another place to watch BC that is within four hours of driving and offers better facilities and game day experience.

The bottom line is that BC must significantly improve the on field product to get people to come to an experience that otherwise sucks. It's a shame to, because the atmosphere in he early 90s was about as good as it was anywhere--Win, Lose, Booze.

To play devil's advocate, are you comparing the gameday atmosphere as an adult to that as a student? Is this just the dissatisfaction of a 40 year old not finding drunkenness as fun now as when they were younger? Or are there people on this board that were "mature adults" in the 90's who can attest to the fact that the gameday atmosphere was just more fun? When did this change? The fence? When was there an escalation in BCPD gameday crackdowns?

I'm not trying to be a dick. My personal experience was loving gameday as a student, especially in the mods. When I came back for my first game 4 years later, it was way different.

[DavidGordonsFoot]

price point is incredibly off

no one is dropping $55 per ticket just to get in the building. make a section $20 and see how quickly that fills up

How much were the tickets in the early 2000's? When was the ticket price jump? Anyone remember. This is tough to look up online. A $35 per seat jump for the cheap seats could be a major factor.

This is also hard to quantify because the face value listed on the individual tickets for season ticket holders was always the same for each game up until 3-4 years ago. I feel like the season ticket price in the cheap seats has been $150-$175 all the way back to the early 2000s.

[DavidGordonsFoot]

When was there an escalation in BCPD gameday crackdowns?

The first escalation was in '94 after the stadium expansion. I have been lead to believe there were practically no rules enforced prior to this time.

The second escalation was '06 when they first instituted the policy of shutting down tailgates 30 minutes before kickoff.

[twballgame9]

When was there an escalation in BCPD gameday crackdowns?

The first escalation was in '94 after the stadium expansion. I have been lead to believe there were practically no rules enforced prior to this time.

The second escalation was '06 when they first instituted the policy of shutting down tailgates 30 minutes before kickoff.

Shutting tailgates was brilliant. The average BC tailgater can't find his seat until the 2nd quarter, left to his own devices. Fuck those people.

[DomingoOrtiz]

Another factor: kickoff times. Night games (unless you are a student) and nooners suck. Last season we only had one 3:30 home game. This is a much bigger factor for me than the opponent.

[RegalBCeagle]

Why isn't Quidditch one of the voting options?

It's covered under the umbrella "Nerdification" choice.

[dtwalrus]

Dick brings up an interesting point. As BC attracts a more national student body, there arent as many local alums that can go to games each week. How many of us live outside of a 2 hour drive from alumni. Trips to BC arent spur of the moment for many of us.

Pulled from the "BC Fact Book" which a simple google search pulls up.
2014-2015: MA = 18%, CT = 8%, NH = 1%, VT = 0.5%, ME = 1%, NY = 14%, NJ = 11%, PA = 4%. That's 58% of freshman enrollment from the surrounding states.
2009-2010: MA = 23%, CT = 7%, NH = 1%, VT = 0.5%, ME = 1%, NY = 15%, NJ = 10%, PA = 4%. That's 61% of freshman enrollment from the surrounding states.
2004-2005: MA = 26%, CT = 8%, NH = 2%, VT = 0.5%, ME = 1%, NY = 15%, NJ = 11%, PA = 3%. That's 66% of freshman enrollment from the surrounding states.
1999-2000: MA = 24%, CT = 9%, NH = 2%, VT = 0.5%, ME = 2%, NY = 16%, NJ = 11%, PA = 4%. That's 68% of freshman enrollment from the surrounding states.
1993-1994: MA = 24%, CT = 11%, NH = 2%, VT = 0.5%, ME = 2%, NY = 15%, NJ = 9%, PA = 4%. That's 67% of freshman enrollment from the surrounding states.

These are the numbers for freshman. While there definitely has been a significant drop in local students, it looks like those "more-national" classes would've graduated sometime between '09 and '13. The drop in attendance predates this by a bit. This is definitely a challenge moving forward, but I'm not sure it's cut-and-dry cause.

Also the proliferation of other responsibilities that werent there 10 years ago, makes a big dent. Dick's kids have soccer, mine have art class and gymnastics. Every kid has something now.

Considering BC's student body is so upper-middle class, is this really a change? Didn't everybody's kids have soccer and shit even in the 90's and early 2000's? Unless you're speaking to the helicopter parent mentalilty that has emerged, in which case we need a social science major to get involved here.

[dtwalrus]

When was there an escalation in BCPD gameday crackdowns?

The first escalation was in '94 after the stadium expansion. I have been lead to believe there were practically no rules enforced prior to this time.

The second escalation was '06 when they first instituted the policy of shutting down tailgates 30 minutes before kickoff.

Shutting down tailgates was really badly received. This does also correspond to the timing of the dropoff.