OT: Boxing

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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby PhillyandBCEagles on Mon Jan 19, 2015 12:16 am

Any of you weird0s at UFC at the Garden tonight??

I really want to like McGregor but he seems like a complete douchebag.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby EagleDave on Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:16 am

HJS wrote:
EagleDave wrote:Just keep Wilder away from Wlad Klitchko and he'll be fine.

With the decay in interest in boxing over the last decade it's gone relatively unnoticed, but Klitchko is legitimately one of the 10 best heavyweights of all time. To borrow a cliched Rocky line, he'd kill Wilder to death inside of 3 rounds if they fought tomorrow.

ps- I love boxing

I found it hard to give Lennox Lewis much credit because of a watered-down field of Riddick Bowe and Shannon Briggs. I find it impossible to call Klitchko anything more than a dominant champ during the weakest/worst era in heavyweight history.


Without question it's a weak era, but it doesn't degrade the point.

He's not only been dominant, he's been completely untouchable (not the case with Lennox) for the better part of a decade. His skill level, speed and athleticism for a guy his size is absolutely mind boggling. And that's without bringing up his bone rattling power in both hands.

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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby flyingelvii on Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:18 am

HJS wrote:
EagleDave wrote:Just keep Wilder away from Wlad Klitchko and he'll be fine.

With the decay in interest in boxing over the last decade it's gone relatively unnoticed, but Klitchko is legitimately one of the 10 best heavyweights of all time. To borrow a cliched Rocky line, he'd kill Wilder to death inside of 3 rounds if they fought tomorrow.

ps- I love boxing

I found it hard to give Lennox Lewis much credit because of a watered-down field of Riddick Bowe and Shannon Briggs. I find it impossible to call Klitchko anything more than a dominant champ during the weakest/worst era in heavyweight history.

His best victory is over Chris Byrd? David Haye? An old as shit Hasim Rahman? Too bad he would never fight his brother.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby HJS on Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:51 am

flyingelvii wrote:
HJS wrote:
EagleDave wrote:Just keep Wilder away from Wlad Klitchko and he'll be fine.

With the decay in interest in boxing over the last decade it's gone relatively unnoticed, but Klitchko is legitimately one of the 10 best heavyweights of all time. To borrow a cliched Rocky line, he'd kill Wilder to death inside of 3 rounds if they fought tomorrow.

ps- I love boxing

I found it hard to give Lennox Lewis much credit because of a watered-down field of Riddick Bowe and Shannon Briggs. I find it impossible to call Klitchko anything more than a dominant champ during the weakest/worst era in heavyweight history.

His best victory is over Chris Byrd? David Haye? An old as shit Hasim Rahman? Too bad he would never fight his brother.

Here is his greatest hits. Unimpressed.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby HJS on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:07 am

EagleDave wrote:
HJS wrote:
EagleDave wrote:Just keep Wilder away from Wlad Klitchko and he'll be fine.

With the decay in interest in boxing over the last decade it's gone relatively unnoticed, but Klitchko is legitimately one of the 10 best heavyweights of all time. To borrow a cliched Rocky line, he'd kill Wilder to death inside of 3 rounds if they fought tomorrow.

ps- I love boxing

I found it hard to give Lennox Lewis much credit because of a watered-down field of Riddick Bowe and Shannon Briggs. I find it impossible to call Klitchko anything more than a dominant champ during the weakest/worst era in heavyweight history.


Without question it's a weak era, but it doesn't degrade the point.

He's not only been dominant, he's been completely untouchable (not the case with Lennox) for the better part of a decade. His skill level, speed and athleticism for a guy his size is absolutely mind boggling. And that's without bringing up his bone rattling power in both hands.


It is impossible to compare a boxer without considering his competition. It's not fair, but it is what it is. Yeah... Klitchko is a freak in size and athleticism. Yeah... he's an excellent champ. However, his troubles earlier in his career against big hitters (who were otherwise terrible fighters) raises questions (I mean... he has 3 losses against no-name journeymen... all of whom knocked him down). He has been dominant as of late, but that has come as the competition has dropped. He's fighting Jennings next (who only beat Perez because of a point deduction in the final round). Jennings is exactly the type that Klitchko feasts on... a boxer with no power.

To my point on level competition being important, Wilder's highlights are more impressive than Klitchko's... but again... it's about the competition.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby twballgame9 on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:54 am

Wlad would beat Wilder because he wouldn't miss the counter. I watched the Wilder fight all night saying "he's dominating as long as Stiverne doesn't land a lucky one..." Wlad would land one.

That said, Wilder's reach and jab would annoy the shit of him.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby HJS on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:46 am

twballgame9 wrote:Wlad would beat Wilder because he wouldn't miss the counter. I watched the Wilder fight all night saying "he's dominating as long as Stiverne doesn't land a lucky one..." Wlad would land one.

That said, Wilder's reach and jab would annoy the shit of him.

The question on Wilder still remains his chin. He took a couple of hard shots from Stiverne and was uneffected. That said, Stiverne did not land many flush and they certainly weren't a part of a sustained attack (both of which you'd have to assume he'd get from Wlad). That said, Wlad has a weak chin. So, the question would really be whether Wilder could land a couple of right crosses before Wlad was able to counter.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby twballgame9 on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:57 am

HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Wlad would beat Wilder because he wouldn't miss the counter. I watched the Wilder fight all night saying "he's dominating as long as Stiverne doesn't land a lucky one..." Wlad would land one.

That said, Wilder's reach and jab would annoy the shit of him.

The question on Wilder still remains his chin. He took a couple of hard shots from Stiverne and was uneffected. That said, Stiverne did not land many flush and they certainly weren't a part of a sustained attack (both of which you'd have to assume he'd get from Wlad). That said, Wlad has a weak chin. So, the question would really be whether Wilder could land a couple of right crosses before Wlad was able to counter.


Stiverne landed one or two legit shots. But by the 6th round, the series of landed jabs and straight rights took all the power out of Stiverne's power punches. Yes Wilder got popped a couple of times, but no, I don't think the jury is back with a verdict on his chin. The Showtime dudes were perplexed that Stiverne never followed up after he landed.

Agree though that Wilder could get to Wlad before he landed. That said, that fight - if it ever occurs - is less likely to go 12.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby tallsy on Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:48 pm

Wilder's footwork is still all wrong. He's still on the back foot and it's too wide. It's better but by no means great. Against a fighter who actually would throw a jab effectively, like Wlad, his only chance would essentially be trying to land one of those wide haymakers. Given Wlad's chin, it's possible it would land but Steward taught enough to a big man to avoid that wild stuff.

I have no idea what Stiverne's gameplan was. He looked discouraged from Round 1.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby EagleDave on Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:53 pm

HJS wrote:
EagleDave wrote:
HJS wrote:
EagleDave wrote:Just keep Wilder away from Wlad Klitchko and he'll be fine.

With the decay in interest in boxing over the last decade it's gone relatively unnoticed, but Klitchko is legitimately one of the 10 best heavyweights of all time. To borrow a cliched Rocky line, he'd kill Wilder to death inside of 3 rounds if they fought tomorrow.

ps- I love boxing

I found it hard to give Lennox Lewis much credit because of a watered-down field of Riddick Bowe and Shannon Briggs. I find it impossible to call Klitchko anything more than a dominant champ during the weakest/worst era in heavyweight history.


Without question it's a weak era, but it doesn't degrade the point.

He's not only been dominant, he's been completely untouchable (not the case with Lennox) for the better part of a decade. His skill level, speed and athleticism for a guy his size is absolutely mind boggling. And that's without bringing up his bone rattling power in both hands.


It is impossible to compare a boxer without considering his competition. It's not fair, but it is what it is. Yeah... Klitchko is a freak in size and athleticism. Yeah... he's an excellent champ. However, his troubles earlier in his career against big hitters (who were otherwise terrible fighters) raises questions (I mean... he has 3 losses against no-name journeymen... all of whom knocked him down). He has been dominant as of late, but that has come as the competition has dropped. He's fighting Jennings next (who only beat Perez because of a point deduction in the final round). Jennings is exactly the type that Klitchko feasts on... a boxer with no power.

To my point on level competition being important, Wilder's highlights are more impressive than Klitchko's... but again... it's about the competition.


The three losses are bad and definitely a knock against him, but I think you have to look at his career from the point Emmanuel Steward took over his training. Totally transformed him as a fighter to the one that exists now solely to ruin every heavyweight fighter that has shown even a modicum of skill.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby HJS on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:27 pm

EagleDave wrote:The three losses are bad and definitely a knock against him, but I think you have to look at his career from the point Emmanuel Steward took over his training. Totally transformed him as a fighter to the one that exists now solely to ruin every heavyweight fighter that has shown even a modicum of skill.

Was going post something about Steward remaking him. But, to that point, I think if he took on Wilder, Wilder would be able to take down Klitschko after a year of training.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby JConman on Mon Jan 19, 2015 9:36 pm

HJS wrote:
EagleDave wrote:Just keep Wilder away from Wlad Klitchko and he'll be fine.

With the decay in interest in boxing over the last decade it's gone relatively unnoticed, but Klitchko is legitimately one of the 10 best heavyweights of all time. To borrow a cliched Rocky line, he'd kill Wilder to death inside of 3 rounds if they fought tomorrow.

ps- I love boxing

I found it hard to give Lennox Lewis much credit because of a watered-down field of Riddick Bowe and Shannon Briggs. I find it impossible to call Klitchko anything more than a dominant champ during the weakest/worst era in heavyweight history.


Bowe was a pretty good fighter for a short period of time but just fell off a cliff. He never faced Lewis, by the way. The thing is, the heavyweight division has been fairly weak since the late 70s. For all of Tyson's dominance, his best win was over a light heavyweight. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if hadn't gone to prison, as there would have been some interesting fights in the early 90s for him. Although now that I think of it, besides Douglas, he also struggled with Razor Ruddock, too, so he was likely already in decline.
Lewis was really the first of the superheavyweights- giant guy who could actually fight. Not an all time great but pretty damn good, so long as he protected that glass jaw.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby EagleDave on Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:38 pm

JConman wrote:
HJS wrote:
EagleDave wrote:Just keep Wilder away from Wlad Klitchko and he'll be fine.

With the decay in interest in boxing over the last decade it's gone relatively unnoticed, but Klitchko is legitimately one of the 10 best heavyweights of all time. To borrow a cliched Rocky line, he'd kill Wilder to death inside of 3 rounds if they fought tomorrow.

ps- I love boxing

I found it hard to give Lennox Lewis much credit because of a watered-down field of Riddick Bowe and Shannon Briggs. I find it impossible to call Klitchko anything more than a dominant champ during the weakest/worst era in heavyweight history.


Bowe was a pretty good fighter for a short period of time but just fell off a cliff. He never faced Lewis, by the way. The thing is, the heavyweight division has been fairly weak since the late 70s. For all of Tyson's dominance, his best win was over a light heavyweight. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if hadn't gone to prison, as there would have been some interesting fights in the early 90s for him. Although now that I think of it, besides Douglas, he also struggled with Razor Ruddock, too, so he was likely already in decline.
Lewis was really the first of the superheavyweights- giant guy who could actually fight. Not an all time great but pretty damn good, so long as he protected that glass jaw.


This. I don't think the heavyweight crop is necessarily any worse now than it was 20 years ago (at least not a ton worse), you just don't have the interest and the hype from people that existed back then that turned guys like Jerry fucking Cooney into overhyped stars.

On the subject of Bowe, he's a guy I genuinely feel awful for. He was an incredible fighter, but Holyfield absolutely ruined him during those three fights because of the punishment he took even though Bowe actually one two of them. I think HE, not Lennox, was the first of the super heavyweights at 6'4 and around 225-230 at his peak. It's a shame he wasn't around long enough to fulfill all that potential (some of it was self inflicted with his weight issues, but his brain was/is soup).
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby JConman on Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:51 am

EagleDave wrote:
JConman wrote:
HJS wrote:
EagleDave wrote:Just keep Wilder away from Wlad Klitchko and he'll be fine.

With the decay in interest in boxing over the last decade it's gone relatively unnoticed, but Klitchko is legitimately one of the 10 best heavyweights of all time. To borrow a cliched Rocky line, he'd kill Wilder to death inside of 3 rounds if they fought tomorrow.

ps- I love boxing

I found it hard to give Lennox Lewis much credit because of a watered-down field of Riddick Bowe and Shannon Briggs. I find it impossible to call Klitchko anything more than a dominant champ during the weakest/worst era in heavyweight history.


Bowe was a pretty good fighter for a short period of time but just fell off a cliff. He never faced Lewis, by the way. The thing is, the heavyweight division has been fairly weak since the late 70s. For all of Tyson's dominance, his best win was over a light heavyweight. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if hadn't gone to prison, as there would have been some interesting fights in the early 90s for him. Although now that I think of it, besides Douglas, he also struggled with Razor Ruddock, too, so he was likely already in decline.
Lewis was really the first of the superheavyweights- giant guy who could actually fight. Not an all time great but pretty damn good, so long as he protected that glass jaw.


This. I don't think the heavyweight crop is necessarily any worse now than it was 20 years ago (at least not a ton worse), you just don't have the interest and the hype from people that existed back then that turned guys like Jerry fucking Cooney into overhyped stars.

On the subject of Bowe, he's a guy I genuinely feel awful for. He was an incredible fighter, but Holyfield absolutely ruined him during those three fights because of the punishment he took even though Bowe actually one two of them. I think HE, not Lennox, was the first of the super heavyweights at 6'4 and around 225-230 at his peak. It's a shame he wasn't around long enough to fulfill all that potential (some of it was self inflicted with his weight issues, but his brain was/is soup).


I agree on Bowe. Thought he was great in those Holyfield fights but they did take a toll. He was pretty awful in that first fight he had against Golatta where he was lucky Golatta kept hitting him in the balls
to get DQ'd. You're right, he was also one of the original superheavyweights. He and Lewis came up at the same time (Olympics). Too bad they never fought. It is sad re Bowe- his mind seemingly went to mush overnight.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby HJS on Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:57 am

I used to love watching Bowe. He was an affable guy with some real good power (almost a bit like Larry Holmes).

I don't think those years boxing comp was as lean as you guys are making it out to be. While they all didn't necessary all fight each other, you still had some interesting talent in guys like Rock Rahman, Holyfield, Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, David Tua and the start of the Klitchkos was good talent spanning 10+ years. Hell... even the next level guys like Michael Moorer, John Ruiz and Larry Donald are better than anything that has been out there since 2008.

I think heavyweight boxing was crushed under the weight of its promoters. I also think there is some validity to less and less big kids picking up the sport young (because they are recruited to FB and BB instead).
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby tallsy on Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:44 am

The Heavyweights are hurt by the fact that there is unlikely to be a Mexican/Latino champ when they drive the sport. The biggest surprise to me has that there hasn't been a significant crop of Russian/ex-Soviet republic challengers to the Klitchkos. There really hasn't been one.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby JConman on Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:07 am

HJS wrote:I used to love watching Bowe. He was an affable guy with some real good power (almost a bit like Larry Holmes).

I don't think those years boxing comp was as lean as you guys are making it out to be. While they all didn't necessary all fight each other, you still had some interesting talent in guys like Rock Rahman, Holyfield, Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, David Tua and the start of the Klitchkos was good talent spanning 10+ years. Hell... even the next level guys like Michael Moorer, John Ruiz and Larry Donald are better than anything that has been out there since 2008.

I think heavyweight boxing was crushed under the weight of its promoters. I also think there is some validity to less and less big kids picking up the sport young (because they are recruited to FB and BB instead).


The 90's did have some decent fighters. Ike Ibeabucchi would have been another good one who might have challenged Lewis or Klitschko in the early 2000s if he hadn't been locked up for 10-15 years for sexual assault.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby HJS on Tue Jan 20, 2015 11:14 am

JConman wrote:
HJS wrote:I used to love watching Bowe. He was an affable guy with some real good power (almost a bit like Larry Holmes).

I don't think those years boxing comp was as lean as you guys are making it out to be. While they all didn't necessary all fight each other, you still had some interesting talent in guys like Rock Rahman, Holyfield, Tyson, Bowe, Lewis, David Tua and the start of the Klitchkos was good talent spanning 10+ years. Hell... even the next level guys like Michael Moorer, John Ruiz and Larry Donald are better than anything that has been out there since 2008.

I think heavyweight boxing was crushed under the weight of its promoters. I also think there is some validity to less and less big kids picking up the sport young (because they are recruited to FB and BB instead).


The 90's did have some decent fighters. Ike Ibeabucchi would have been another good one who might have challenged Lewis or Klitschko in the early 2000s if he hadn't been locked up for 10-15 years for sexual assault.

How times have changed.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby b0mberMan on Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:38 pm

I don't get the appeal of boxing. If I wanted to see two immigrants punch each other while surgically enhanced women stand on the perimeter, I'd start going to Rumor.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby twballgame9 on Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:57 am

b0mberMan wrote:I don't get the appeal of boxing. If I wanted to see two immigrants punch each other while surgically enhanced women stand on the perimeter, I'd start going to Rumor.


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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby HJS on Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:16 am

Pacquiao-Mayweather is apparently finally set for May 2 (until HBO-Showtime cancels it).
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby EagleDave on Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:26 pm

HJS wrote:Pacquiao-Mayweather is apparently finally set for May 2 (until HBO-Showtime cancels it).


I'll believe it when the bell rings for the first round.

That said: Mayweather will slap him around for 12 rounds while Pacman flails wildly in a hopeless attempt to land a hail mary knockout punch. And, for any Pacman apologists on the board, the same would have happened three years ago when this fight should have been made originally.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby HJS on Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:15 pm

On NBC, Wilder is fighting some French tomato can. Wilder is killing him, but doesn't look that great. In fact, Wilder's left eye almost swollen shut in the 4th.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby twballgame9 on Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:17 pm

This sucks for boxing
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby tallsy on Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:26 pm

Blame Haymon.

He lured the networks with a few good matchups upfront, even convincing ESPN to get rid of FNF despite not being any real competition.

Wilder's footwork is atrocious. Great athlete, no boxer. If he beats Wlad in 2016, it's because Wlad is done.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby EagleDave on Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:38 pm

tallsy wrote:Blame Haymon.

He lured the networks with a few good matchups upfront, even convincing ESPN to get rid of FNF despite not being any real competition.

Wilder's footwork is atrocious. Great athlete, no boxer. If he beats Wlad in 2016, it's because Wlad is done.


Wlad would beat Wilder half to death inside of 5 rounds.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby twballgame9 on Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:40 pm

wlad is the worst champ ever.

Wilder will fuck him up
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby HJS on Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:42 pm

This Frenchy may die at the hospital tonight. Ref finally stopped it, but he was done rounds ago.

Wilder is a great athlete who would get his ass beat by any of the previous American champs. Klitchko would kill him. Wilder has a very long way to go. Could be great, but far from it now.

All that said, he hasn't had to actually box yet. Maybe he can. Can't tell from punching sessions like today.
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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby EagleDave on Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:43 pm

twballgame9 wrote:wlad is the worst champ ever.

Wilder will fuck him up


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Re: OT: Boxing

Postby UK Eagle on Tue Sep 29, 2015 1:49 pm

For those interested in the Heavyweight division, keep an eye out for British boxer Anthony Joshua, the kid is an absolute beast and is primed to fight Wilder or Klitshcko next year.
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