Welcome PSU Fans

[Dick Rosenthal]

Even in the depths of collapse/an irretrievable death spiral ND still managed to go 12-0 and beat the Rose Bowl champion and play for the national championship. Shit, even last year when they had a kid playing QB who could not throw a ball 30 yards in the air without great difficulty and who ran a 6.6 40 yard dash, they still managed to beat the Rose Bowl Champion and fuck up Michigan State's shot at the national title.

I see no point in hating Notre Dame. In stark contrast to 90% of the programs in college football (and in solidarity with us, Stanford, Vandy, Duke and few others) they actually insist on their players going to class, working hard and graduating. They were also willing to suspend an All-American CB, a WR who will likely be drafted in the top two rounds of the NFL draft and two defensive starters for an entire year for a low-level academic misdemeanor that would not have caused a ripple of concern in places like Tuscaloosa, Tallahassee, Eugene and Columbus.

Truth is, I have very little use for college football anymore. It is entering NBA territory in that it is increasingly played by illiterate scum and in order to be successful you essentially have to run a criminal enterprise. If Stanford and ND with their vast resources and tradition can't be successful--and Stanford appears to be on a downward slope again and ND is a pale shadow of its former self--what chance do we have to sustain long term success? You can cheer their demise, but in doing so you are cheering our college football death as well.

[twballgame9]

I don't think ND is relevant enough to hate them.

Oh, and these days, picking off Big10 powerhouses is not that big of a deal. Shit, even Beamer is doing it.

EDIT - don't disagree with your point about the school and the demise of college football, but the fans suck so bad that it is hard to care.

[DrJackRyan]

One of my favorite aspects of this site is the complete lack of data that accompanies most arguments.

Question related to Notre Dame's "relevance" over the past 20 years.

Let's see what our good friends at Stassen have to say:

I-A Winning Percentage 1994-2013 (20 years)
(Teams not qualifying for the table are listed at the bottom)

---- ----------------------- ------- ---- ---- ---- -----
Rank Team name Win-Pct Won Lost Tied Games
---- ----------------------- ------- ---- ---- ---- -----
1 Ohio State 0.78512 190 52 0 242
2 Boise State 0.77632 177 51 0 228
3 Florida 0.75292 193 63 1 257
4 Florida State 0.74898 183 61 1 245
5 Virginia Tech 0.74319 191 66 0 257
6 Nebraska 0.74131 192 67 0 259
7 Texas 0.73922 188 66 1 255
8 Oregon 0.72800 182 68 0 250
9 Oklahoma 0.71680 183 72 1 256
10 Louisiana State 0.71627 180 71 1 252
11 Georgia 0.70553 178 74 1 253
12 Southern Cal 0.70168 166 70 2 238
13 Miami-Florida 0.69512 171 75 0 246
14 Wisconsin 0.68555 174 79 3 256
15 Michigan 0.68400 171 79 0 250
16 Auburn 0.67400 168 81 1 250
17 Kansas State 0.67200 168 82 0 250
18 Alabama 0.66810 155 77 0 232
19 Utah 0.66805 161 80 0 241
20 Texas Christian 0.66803 163 81 0 244
21 Brigham Young 0.66403 168 85 0 253
22 Tennessee 0.66400 166 84 0 250
23 Toledo 0.63223 152 88 2 242
24 West Virginia 0.62753 155 92 0 247
25 Louisville 0.62705 153 91 0 244
26 Texas Tech 0.62249 155 94 0 249
27 Notre Dame 0.61585 151 94 1 246
28 Texas A&M 0.61492 152 95 1 248
29 Clemson 0.61446 153 96 0 249
30 Marshall 0.60563 129 84 0 213
31 Georgia Tech 0.58167 146 105 0 251
32 Air Force 0.57724 142 104 0 246
33 Fresno State 0.57677 146 107 1 254
34 Iowa 0.57347 140 104 1 245
35 Oklahoma State 0.56996 138 104 1 243
36 Southern Miss 0.56911 140 106 0 246
37 Cincinnati 0.56762 138 105 1 244
38 Boston College 0.56478 139 107 1 247
39 UCLA 0.55691 137 109 0 246
40 Michigan State 0.55668 137 109 1 247
41 Arkansas 0.55510 136 109 0 245
42 Arizona State 0.55328 135 109 0 244
43 Missouri 0.55306 135 109 1 245
44 South Carolina 0.55165 133 108 1 242
45 South Florida 0.54777 86 71 0 157
46 Central Florida 0.54128 118 100 0 218
47 East Carolina 0.54098 132 112 0 244
48 Nevada-Reno 0.53909 131 112 0 243
49 Colorado State 0.53659 132 114 0 246
50 Northern Illinois 0.53498 130 113 0 243
51 Virginia 0.53469 131 114 0 245
52 Stanford 0.53138 126 111 2 239
53 Bowling Green 0.52941 126 112 0 238
54 Navy 0.52697 127 114 0 241
55 Troy 0.52532 83 75 0 158
56 Oregon State 0.52066 126 116 0 242
57 North Carolina State 0.51852 126 117 0 243
58 Miami-Ohio 0.51681 122 114 2 238
59 Mississippi 0.50833 122 118 0 240
60t Pittsburgh 0.50826 123 119 0 242
60t Syracuse 0.50826 123 119 0 242
62t Washington 0.50823 123 119 1 243
62t Northwestern 0.50823 123 119 1 243
64 Purdue 0.50615 122 119 3 244
65 Arizona 0.50000 120 120 0 240
66 Colorado 0.49796 122 123 0 245
67 North Carolina 0.49780 113 114 0 227
68 Maryland 0.49372 118 121 0 239
69 Connecticut 0.49112 83 86 0 169
70 Western Michigan 0.48511 114 121 0 235
71 Louisiana Tech 0.48101 114 123 0 237
72 Middle Tennessee State 0.47486 85 94 0 179
73 Hawaii 0.47441 120 133 1 254
74 Mississippi State 0.47280 113 126 0 239
75 Houston 0.47107 114 128 0 242
76 Tulsa 0.46311 113 131 0 244
77 California 0.46250 111 129 0 240
78 Ohio University 0.46042 110 129 1 240
79t San Diego State 0.45607 109 130 0 239
79t Central Michigan 0.45607 109 130 0 239
81 Ball State 0.45551 107 128 1 236
82 Wyoming 0.45148 107 130 0 237
83 Minnesota 0.44628 108 134 0 242
84 Washington State 0.43697 104 134 0 238
85 Rice 0.43617 102 132 1 235
86 Rutgers 0.43487 103 134 1 238
87 Kansas 0.42797 101 135 0 236
88 Wake Forest 0.42616 101 136 0 237
89 Penn State 0.41481 56 79 0 135
90 Florida Atlantic 0.41322 50 71 0 121
91 Arkansas State 0.41102 97 139 0 236
92 New Mexico 0.40909 99 143 0 242
93 Louisiana-Lafayette 0.40343 94 139 0 233
94 Baylor 0.39744 93 141 0 234
95 Western Kentucky 0.38824 33 52 0 85
96 Kentucky 0.38819 92 145 0 237
97 Illinois 0.38347 90 145 1 236
98 UAB 0.38278 80 129 0 209
99 Utah State 0.37607 88 146 0 234
100 Iowa State 0.37448 89 149 1 239
101 San Jose State 0.37288 88 148 0 236
102 Memphis 0.37021 87 148 0 235
103 Louisiana-Monroe 0.36638 85 147 0 232
104 Tulane 0.35745 84 151 0 235
105 Southern Methodist 0.35381 83 152 1 236
106 North Texas 0.35268 79 145 0 224
107 Texas-El Paso 0.35232 83 153 1 237
108 Akron 0.33906 79 154 0 233
109 Vanderbilt 0.33761 79 155 0 234
110 Indiana 0.32900 76 155 0 231
111 Kent 0.32112 74 157 1 232
112 Idaho 0.32075 68 144 0 212
113 Florida International 0.30252 36 83 0 119
114 Army 0.29828 69 163 1 233
115 Nevada-Las Vegas 0.29536 70 167 0 237
116 Temple 0.29437 68 163 0 231
117 Eastern Michigan 0.27826 64 166 0 230
118 New Mexico State 0.27660 65 170 0 235
119 Buffalo 0.26404 47 131 0 178
120 Duke 0.26068 61 173 0 234
---- ----------------------- ------- ---- ---- ---- -----

[twballgame9]

One of my favorite aspects of this site is the complete lack of data that accompanies most arguments.

Question related to Notre Dame's "relevance" over the past 20 years.

Let's see what our good friends at Stassen have to say:

I-A Winning Percentage 1994-2013 (20 years)
(Teams not qualifying for the table are listed at the bottom)

---- ----------------------- ------- ---- ---- ---- -----
Rank Team name Win-Pct Won Lost Tied Games
---- ----------------------- ------- ---- ---- ---- -----
1 Ohio State 0.78512 190 52 0 242
2 Boise State 0.77632 177 51 0 228
3 Florida 0.75292 193 63 1 257
4 Florida State 0.74898 183 61 1 245
5 Virginia Tech 0.74319 191 66 0 257
6 Nebraska 0.74131 192 67 0 259
7 Texas 0.73922 188 66 1 255
8 Oregon 0.72800 182 68 0 250
9 Oklahoma 0.71680 183 72 1 256
10 Louisiana State 0.71627 180 71 1 252
11 Georgia 0.70553 178 74 1 253
12 Southern Cal 0.70168 166 70 2 238
13 Miami-Florida 0.69512 171 75 0 246
14 Wisconsin 0.68555 174 79 3 256
15 Michigan 0.68400 171 79 0 250
16 Auburn 0.67400 168 81 1 250
17 Kansas State 0.67200 168 82 0 250
18 Alabama 0.66810 155 77 0 232
19 Utah 0.66805 161 80 0 241
20 Texas Christian 0.66803 163 81 0 244
21 Brigham Young 0.66403 168 85 0 253
22 Tennessee 0.66400 166 84 0 250
23 Toledo 0.63223 152 88 2 242
24 West Virginia 0.62753 155 92 0 247
25 Louisville 0.62705 153 91 0 244
26 Texas Tech 0.62249 155 94 0 249
27 Notre Dame 0.61585 151 94 1 246
28 Texas A&M 0.61492 152 95 1 248
29 Clemson 0.61446 153 96 0 249
30 Marshall 0.60563 129 84 0 213
31 Georgia Tech 0.58167 146 105 0 251
32 Air Force 0.57724 142 104 0 246
33 Fresno State 0.57677 146 107 1 254
34 Iowa 0.57347 140 104 1 245
35 Oklahoma State 0.56996 138 104 1 243
36 Southern Miss 0.56911 140 106 0 246
37 Cincinnati 0.56762 138 105 1 244
38 Boston College 0.56478 139 107 1 247
39 UCLA 0.55691 137 109 0 246
40 Michigan State 0.55668 137 109 1 247
41 Arkansas 0.55510 136 109 0 245
42 Arizona State 0.55328 135 109 0 244
43 Missouri 0.55306 135 109 1 245
44 South Carolina 0.55165 133 108 1 242
45 South Florida 0.54777 86 71 0 157
46 Central Florida 0.54128 118 100 0 218
47 East Carolina 0.54098 132 112 0 244
48 Nevada-Reno 0.53909 131 112 0 243
49 Colorado State 0.53659 132 114 0 246
50 Northern Illinois 0.53498 130 113 0 243
51 Virginia 0.53469 131 114 0 245
52 Stanford 0.53138 126 111 2 239
53 Bowling Green 0.52941 126 112 0 238
54 Navy 0.52697 127 114 0 241
55 Troy 0.52532 83 75 0 158
56 Oregon State 0.52066 126 116 0 242
57 North Carolina State 0.51852 126 117 0 243
58 Miami-Ohio 0.51681 122 114 2 238
59 Mississippi 0.50833 122 118 0 240
60t Pittsburgh 0.50826 123 119 0 242
60t Syracuse 0.50826 123 119 0 242
62t Washington 0.50823 123 119 1 243
62t Northwestern 0.50823 123 119 1 243
64 Purdue 0.50615 122 119 3 244
65 Arizona 0.50000 120 120 0 240
66 Colorado 0.49796 122 123 0 245
67 North Carolina 0.49780 113 114 0 227
68 Maryland 0.49372 118 121 0 239
69 Connecticut 0.49112 83 86 0 169
70 Western Michigan 0.48511 114 121 0 235
71 Louisiana Tech 0.48101 114 123 0 237
72 Middle Tennessee State 0.47486 85 94 0 179
73 Hawaii 0.47441 120 133 1 254
74 Mississippi State 0.47280 113 126 0 239
75 Houston 0.47107 114 128 0 242
76 Tulsa 0.46311 113 131 0 244
77 California 0.46250 111 129 0 240
78 Ohio University 0.46042 110 129 1 240
79t San Diego State 0.45607 109 130 0 239
79t Central Michigan 0.45607 109 130 0 239
81 Ball State 0.45551 107 128 1 236
82 Wyoming 0.45148 107 130 0 237
83 Minnesota 0.44628 108 134 0 242
84 Washington State 0.43697 104 134 0 238
85 Rice 0.43617 102 132 1 235
86 Rutgers 0.43487 103 134 1 238
87 Kansas 0.42797 101 135 0 236
88 Wake Forest 0.42616 101 136 0 237
89 Penn State 0.41481 56 79 0 135
90 Florida Atlantic 0.41322 50 71 0 121
91 Arkansas State 0.41102 97 139 0 236
92 New Mexico 0.40909 99 143 0 242
93 Louisiana-Lafayette 0.40343 94 139 0 233
94 Baylor 0.39744 93 141 0 234
95 Western Kentucky 0.38824 33 52 0 85
96 Kentucky 0.38819 92 145 0 237
97 Illinois 0.38347 90 145 1 236
98 UAB 0.38278 80 129 0 209
99 Utah State 0.37607 88 146 0 234
100 Iowa State 0.37448 89 149 1 239
101 San Jose State 0.37288 88 148 0 236
102 Memphis 0.37021 87 148 0 235
103 Louisiana-Monroe 0.36638 85 147 0 232
104 Tulane 0.35745 84 151 0 235
105 Southern Methodist 0.35381 83 152 1 236
106 North Texas 0.35268 79 145 0 224
107 Texas-El Paso 0.35232 83 153 1 237
108 Akron 0.33906 79 154 0 233
109 Vanderbilt 0.33761 79 155 0 234
110 Indiana 0.32900 76 155 0 231
111 Kent 0.32112 74 157 1 232
112 Idaho 0.32075 68 144 0 212
113 Florida International 0.30252 36 83 0 119
114 Army 0.29828 69 163 1 233
115 Nevada-Las Vegas 0.29536 70 167 0 237
116 Temple 0.29437 68 163 0 231
117 Eastern Michigan 0.27826 64 166 0 230
118 New Mexico State 0.27660 65 170 0 235
119 Buffalo 0.26404 47 131 0 178
120 Duke 0.26068 61 173 0 234
---- ----------------------- ------- ---- ---- ---- -----

While this data supports my position entirely, I will preemptively state that I think it is misleading in my favor.

[HJS]

Those last 2 years of Spaz dropped us from 17th to 38th. Simply amazing.

[Brooklyneagle]

Even in the depths of collapse/an irretrievable death spiral ND still managed to go 12-0 and beat the Rose Bowl champion and play for the national championship. Shit, even last year when they had a kid playing QB who could not throw a ball 30 yards in the air without great difficulty and who ran a 6.6 40 yard dash, they still managed to beat the Rose Bowl Champion and fuck up Michigan State's shot at the national title.

I see no point in hating Notre Dame. In stark contrast to 90% of the programs in college football (and in solidarity with us, Stanford, Vandy, Duke and few others) they actually insist on their players going to class, working hard and graduating. They were also willing to suspend an All-American CB, a WR who will likely be drafted in the top two rounds of the NFL draft and two defensive starters for an entire year for a low-level academic misdemeanor that would not have caused a ripple of concern in places like Tuscaloosa, Tallahassee, Eugene and Columbus.

Truth is, I have very little use for college football anymore. It is entering NBA territory in that it is increasingly played by illiterate scum and in order to be successful you essentially have to run a criminal enterprise. If Stanford and ND with their vast resources and tradition can't be successful--and Stanford appears to be on a downward slope again and ND is a pale shadow of its former self--what chance do we have to sustain long term success? You can cheer their demise, but in doing so you are cheering our college football death as well.

Agree wholeheartedly. I might hate ND for their smugness and, not least, for their condescending attitude toward us, but you have to give the devil his due. Same for Stanford, though I point out they give their athletes credit for sports courses; admitting Winston also kinda punctures Palo Alto pretensions, but still... (I have a degree from Stanford.) While I would not put PSU in the same category, I'd put it way above most of the factories; Sandusky aside, a pretty clean program over the years. Not so sure about Vandy the last several years: I have the impression lots of decent to excellent schools (e.g., our own Carolina) turn a blind eye to illiteracy and bad character.

[twballgame9]

A lot of fiction in this thread, running the gamut from ND's unending return to glory to the mythical idea that certain division 1 sports programs are elite academically as well.

[Brooklyneagle]

A lot of fiction in this thread, running the gamut from ND's unending return to glory to the mythical idea that certain division 1 sports programs are elite academically as well.

Agree to an extent. We don't have data (SAT scores, for example), mainly just impressions and anecdotes, press reports of thuggery and crime, NCAA violations. Even the ivies bend the rules: does anyone think those Harvard hockey players showing up from Alberta would ever -- in a million years -- get a second look from Harvard admissions if not for their skills on the ice? Mutatis mutandis, this applies as well to BC and the other schools cited by Rosenthal.

But, since "elite" is all relative, there does seem to be some basis for concluding that some schools stay relatively closer than others to a decent standard. In some cases, a lot closer.

Rosenthal's comment on the NBA opens a more general point: what connects the fan to a team? A professional team consists of individuals that have no connection to the community of their fans except that provided by the vagaries of a draft (or a trade). That a player is on a given team is purely fortuitous and arbitrary. Such illogic, however, seems to have no effect on fans' devotion. For college sports, the logic is a little stronger since the player at least chooses the school. (Back in the day, BC's teams were composed of individuals, usually Catholic high school grads, that bore a close resemblance to the rest of the student body. That has evidently changed somewhat, but I simply don't know to what extent.) But what if a school's players bear no resemblance whatsoever -- academically, geographically, or otherwise -- to the rest of the student body? The seeming absence of a meaningful link to the school community apparently makes no difference. Take a look at the Alabama players on the field and then look at the fans in the stands. Like a playground pickup game, it's the old, arbitrary, human "us against them".

[eagle9903]

much overthinking.

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

much overthinking.

yes, but it's these sorts of discussions that will entice the real penn state fans to post here...

[Brooklyneagle]

much overthinking.

yes, but it's these sorts of discussions that will entice the real penn state fans to post here...

Are the PSU fans that smart? (imagine red letters.)

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

much overthinking.

yes, but it's these sorts of discussions that will entice the real penn state fans to post here...

Are the PSU fans that smart? (imagine red letters.)

smarter

[Dick Rosenthal]

Man is a tribal creature. It is our nature. We are genetically programmed to either hate or be indifferent towards the "other". It is hate when the "other" is perceived as a threat and it is indifference when the "other" poses no threat. There have been some interesting macro psychological studies on this--really fascinating stuff.

As far as college football goes, while I acknowledge the academic exceptions made by ND, BC, Duke, Stanford--or the Ivies for that matter--generally speaking, the kids who appear on TV at least appear to be literate and able to express themselves in complete sentences. As such, they are members of my tribe. I can relate to them and if they happen to be in the uniform of an institution I have a positive connection with I will root for them. In contrast, the post game interviews with FSU players or most of the SEC and tOSU players resemble attempts to communicate with cannibals from the most remote parts of Paupau New Guinea. These fucking imbeciles don't even speak my language--or a language I can even attempt to learn--and have nothing in common with me. Because they pose no threat to me my attitude is simply fuck them, I don't care what they do. However, that attitude translates into not watching the playoff or really caring in any way, shape or form about what happens.

As I said, I reached that point with the NBA a decade or so ago. What is funny is that I was there with college basketball but have regained interest as the world has been split into one and done illiterate factories like Kentucky, Louisville, etc. and 4 year teams that make up for a lack of raw physical talent with superior basketball intellect and cohesiveness. Mid-majors like Dayton, Wichita State are delights to watch and can play with and beat the factories.

[Brooklyneagle]

Man is a tribal creature. It is our nature. We are genetically programmed to either hate or be indifferent towards the "other". It is hate when the "other" is perceived as a threat and it is indifference when the "other" poses no threat. There have been some interesting macro psychological studies on this--really fascinating stuff.

As far as college football goes, while I acknowledge the academic exceptions made by ND, BC, Duke, Stanford--or the Ivies for that matter--generally speaking, the kids who appear on TV at least appear to be literate and able to express themselves in complete sentences. As such, they are members of my tribe. I can relate to them and if they happen to be in the uniform of an institution I have a positive connection with I will root for them. In contrast, the post game interviews with FSU players or most of the SEC and tOSU players resemble attempts to communicate with cannibals from the most remote parts of Paupau New Guinea. These fucking imbeciles don't even speak my language--or a language I can even attempt to learn--and have nothing in common with me. Because they pose no threat to me my attitude is simply fuck them, I don't care what they do. However, that attitude translates into not watching the playoff or really caring in any way, shape or form about what happens.

As I said, I reached that point with the NBA a decade or so ago. What is funny is that I was there with college basketball but have regained interest as the world has been split into one and done illiterate factories like Kentucky, Louisville, etc. and 4 year teams that make up for a lack of raw physical talent with superior basketball intellect and cohesiveness. Mid-majors like Dayton, Wichita State are delights to watch and can play with and beat the factories.

We're in obvious agreement -- and I usually root on the same basis. A whole literature confirms the ordinary experience of the pickup game: your momentary teammate becomes your instant comrade because he is on your side; the other team, even if it includes some of your best friends, is suddenly the enemy.

Ironically, I'll be rooting for FSU -- in the face of their truly outrageous history and present -- (and the rest of the ACC) on the basis that they are one of ours.

That we have an attitude of respect here for the Clemson community -- despite what looks to be a factory-like admissions policy there -- (and sympathy for Wake) is a welcome respite from the usual us-them attitudes displayed by many on our board. On the field, it's a different story, of course. BC above all.

[Eaglekeeper]

BC football has a good rep nationally, is well received and has good TV ratings when playing in meaningful games. BC's problems are right here at home.

[Eagle Eggs]

Whenever PSU fans try to equate the Catholic Church scandal and the Sandusky scandal they always miss the mark. BC and the Catholic Church are at arms length, I never got the sense that the Jesuits and the Archdiocese were on the best of terms. Saying that BC is part of the scandal is akin to a scandal in the PA state government makes PSU looks bad since they're a state school. They don't seem to understand that BC had nothing to do with a Catholic Church scandal much like PSU would have nothing to do with a similar type of scandal in Harrisburg.

Take a look at how many clerical abusers were "BC guys" as you arseholes like to call alumni.

[talon]

Whenever PSU fans try to equate the Catholic Church scandal and the Sandusky scandal they always miss the mark. BC and the Catholic Church are at arms length, I never got the sense that the Jesuits and the Archdiocese were on the best of terms. Saying that BC is part of the scandal is akin to a scandal in the PA state government makes PSU looks bad since they're a state school. They don't seem to understand that BC had nothing to do with a Catholic Church scandal much like PSU would have nothing to do with a similar type of scandal in Harrisburg.

Take a look at how many clerical abusers were "BC guys" as you arseholes like to call alumni.

How many?

[Eagle Eggs]

31 in Boston.

[talon]

31 in Boston.

31 abusers are alumni of Boston College?

Do you have a source for that?

[HJS]

31 in Boston.

31 abusers are alumni of Boston College?

Do you have a source for that?

I bet he can't name names.

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

in before the ban...

[DavidGordonsFoot]

31 in Boston.

31 abusers are alumni of Boston College?

Do you have a source for that?

I bet he can't name names.

He has named names before. Most he named were BC High staff & faculty.

[twballgame9]

31 in Boston.

31 abusers are alumni of Boston College?

Do you have a source for that?

I thought you were the one that posted sources for unsupported facts?

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

31 in Boston.

31 abusers are alumni of Boston College?

Do you have a source for that?

I thought you were the one that posted sources for unsupported facts?

i took that as talon saying he couldn't find a source.

talon doesn't like unsourced "facts." never has

[talon]

If someone's going to claim that 31 Boston College alumni were caught molesting children, I'd just like to see a news article or something more concrete than taking one douchebag's word for it.

[Endless Mike]

[Endless Mike]

[Endless Mike]

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

If someone's going to claim that 31 Boston College alumni were caught molesting children, I'd just like to see a news article or something more concrete than taking one douchebag's word for it.

the world may never know

[Logitano]

PSU will be practicing next week at Fordham. Yet another example the Catholic Church supporting pedophiles.