Northwestern players get union vote

[DavidGordonsFoot]

B1G, if true

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

too bad nopride isn't here to weigh in

[angrychicken]

Yes. I'm sure this plan has been thoroughly thought out.

[pick6pedro]

Kain is Able.

[Bryn Mawr Eagle]

Under any applicable legal standard they are not "employees" under the National Labor Relations Act. But they know this. They are trying to change the law. I assume the regional director will reject the petition, but you never know. And once that decision is appealed to the Board, all bets are off. Under the Obama Board they might just get a sympathetic ear.

[OCs_Inner_Eagle]

Any decision on unionization, on either side, will be a political choice masquerading as a legal decision.

The first domino to fall is always the toughest. Kain Colter is out of eligibility, but I have to think Fitzgerald at Northwestern is at least agnostic on this effort. There have to be undergrads involved in this. For the first one, they would go forward if they think the coach will deal with it.

I would imagine that teams with similar characteristics as Northwestern will be the next ones to move forward. Ones where the kids have enough contact with relatively clever people to tell them where the anti-union people (presumably the Nick Sabans) are blowing smoke. Stanford. BC. Although I'm guessing Notre Dame players are more compliant, it would be hilarious to see a move toward unionization there.

How does this play out for BC? On the one hand, the financial value of a full ride is less at the Alabamas, and they have more revenue to distribute to the players. On the other hand, collective bargaining would tend to bring out the under-the-table revenue and enhancements into the sunlight--thus helping BC.

Between the Saban superconferences, the O'Bannon class action, and this effort, these are going to be some wild times.

[rktbrkr]

this is what happens when you enroll smart ass scholar athletes!

will there be union and right to study conferences

guess Army, Navy and AF will be non-union because of their gov contracts

are college referees union?

[rktbrkr]

purdue should have been the test case for unionization joining the boilermakers union

http://www.boilermakers.org/

[Casey]

If forming a labor union entails reclassifying college athletes as traditional salaried employees who are paid (via scholarship) to play, then they're at risk to be taxed at the value of their scholarship beyond room and board. Curious if that also has implications for title 9, which applies to educational programs, not employment opportunities.

[Eaglekeeper]

This effort to unionize is going nowhere. Universities will never agree to pay any student athlete. It would create such a divide in the student body that it would force most universities into just dropping most if not all sports to club level. The answer is a minor league system for football and basketball similar to what exist for baseball and hockey. Many of these athletes have no interest in graduating anyway and forcing colleges into the business of operating a minor league is ridiculous.

[Dick Rosenthal]

if the idiot union scum win, they lose and we lose because it will be the end of college football. I suspect most schools will just drop sports altogether or move to a no-scholarship environment. With that said, I don't see the NRLB, as batshit insane as it is, certifying and even if they do, an appeal to the Supremes is probably granted cert and the Supremes deliver another scathing 5-4 or 6-3 smackdown of the board.

[eagle216]

College Football is just too big in too many places for schools to just give it up if the players somehow successfully unionize. I think we are much more likely to see certain schools (SEC and that ilk) start to pay players under a strict cap, and break away from the NCAA somehow. Then the remainder schools will have a choice as to whether or not they want to join in, try to stay status quo, or slink down to Patriot League-like status. The fall out will be less kids receiving full rides for football, and the NFL/CFL type talent being pooled into a smaller cluster of schools (the schools that will pay).

[Bryn Mawr Eagle]

I too predict that this is ultimately going nowhere - at least in the near term. The implications of treating scholarship athletes as "employees" of their non-profit institutions are too far-reaching. (I actually could see an argument for it under existing law where the school is a for-profit institution, but I don't know of too many for-profit schools that have scholarship sports teams).

I fear the Obama Board might screw it up and someone open the door to this type of petition (think about the grad assistant organizing cases), but the D.C. Circuit or whatever federal appeals court addresses the issue will put the kibosh on it (with the Supreme Court as a potential backstop should any court of appeals screw it up).

The students may then (or even now) also go to state labor relations boards if their universities are covered by state labor relations laws. No doubt some state ALJ or hearing officer will go their way at some point, but again those decisions are usually subject to court review.

[HJS]

If you are going to pay football players, isn't there an argument to be made that you have to equally pay all female athletes under Title 9?

Further... what about kids on academic scholarships who essentially are indentured servants to professors doing research under a federal grant?

And... what about the whole concept of an unpaid intern?

The ramifications of saying college athletes are employees are far-reaching and aren't remotely being considered by the dumb jocks pushing the issue.

[Eaglekeeper]

It's a great point about having to pay women equal amounts. The players will argue amongst themselves about how much each player is getting paid, they will want merchadise rights, etc. Colleges are just not an environment for a minor league system. No school would carry an 85 man roster either if they have to pay the players.

[BCMurt09]

This has probably been said. I understand their point, I mean, being able to search "Manziel" on ShopNCAA.com and have his jersey come up was pretty bad. But (most of) these guys are going to world class institutions for FREE. Now whether they stay for four years and take advantage of that is their own issue. They are being give upwards of $25,000 a year to pay for their school. "Here we will give you $100, 000 except you need to put it all towards your tuition payments."

Give them all a stipend, fine. But, for every kid that can't pay for food or laundry and needs a loan from his coach, there's a kid posting pictures on Twitter of his 10 pairs of Jordans and 4 grand in 50s.

[Bryn Mawr Eagle]

This has probably been said. I understand their point, I mean, being able to search "Manziel" on ShopNCAA.com and have his jersey come up was pretty bad. But (most of) these guys are going to world class institutions for FREE. Now whether they stay for four years and take advantage of that is their own issue. They are being give upwards of $25,000 a year to pay for their school. "Here we will give you $100, 000 except you need to put it all towards your tuition payments."

Give them all a stipend, fine. But, for every kid that can't pay for food or laundry and needs a loan from his coach, there's a kid posting pictures on Twitter of his 10 pairs of Jordans and 4 grand in 50s.

I agree with you, but methinks its been awhile since you've seen a tuition bill. Full boat at schools like BC is now well over $50,000 a year. That's a very valuable scholarship, especially for those who are there 5 years.

[angrychicken]

I don't think that the players understand the can of worms that they are trying to open. It's one thing to go after better health care and a stipend. It's another to follow these union hacks down their roads of idiocy. This is going to blow up in their faces.

[HJS]

This has probably been said. I understand their point, I mean, being able to search "Manziel" on ShopNCAA.com and have his jersey come up was pretty bad. But (most of) these guys are going to world class institutions for FREE. Now whether they stay for four years and take advantage of that is their own issue. They are being give upwards of $25,000 a year to pay for their school. "Here we will give you $100, 000 except you need to put it all towards your tuition payments."

Give them all a stipend, fine. But, for every kid that can't pay for food or laundry and needs a loan from his coach, there's a kid posting pictures on Twitter of his 10 pairs of Jordans and 4 grand in 50s.

I agree with you, but methinks its been awhile since you've seen a tuition bill. Full boat at schools like BC is now well over $50,000 a year. That's a very valuable scholarship, especially for those who are there 5 years.

And THIS is what proves jocks being stupid ain't a stereotype. They bitch and moan about "being paid" but then the best players sell their services to the lowest bidder (some State U diploma mill). They pick the school based on where they can garner the most attention/fans/notoriety. They pick the school where they have the best chance of having 50-year-old men waddle around town in their jersey. Only after they fail to make the NFL/NBA do they claim to have been exploited. They are fine with the exploitation so long as the payoff is there in terms of professional dollars (as if one has anything to do with the other).

Interestingly, this is coming up at Northwestern. While Chicago is the center of the Labor Movement, Northwestern players have one of the least persuasive arguments. NONE OF THEM would have been able to gain admittance to the school but-for football (what would it cost to buy a B- kid into Northwestern... a million? probably more... but let's just say a million for argument's sake). The free education/living-expenses (including medical) they receieved well exceeds $250k. So, over the course of a 5 years, each Northwestern football player received goods and services exceeding $1.25mm for their ability to play with a mishapen ball. That valuation spread across an 85-person roster is in excess of $21mm dollars... damn near dollar-for-dollar in revenues received from the conference (but doesn't include all the other sports the conference supports). Sure there are revenues generated by shoe contracts and tickets sales, but the profits there are very lean. Besides... we haven't even begun to account for all the other expenses allocated to sports team... equiptment, coaches, travel, support staff.

Look... I get it... there are plenty of exploitive programs in the B10 and SEC. Those two conferences are also the ones who are spurring a TV arms race that will likely collapse the system upon itself. In some ways I do see where these kids are coming from (the coach is getting $5mm per year because of me and the school is getting $50mm per year because of me... and what the am I getting??? I mean other than the chance to take a free 3-hour weekly class on Beonce). But, when it comes to schools like Stanford, Northwestern, ND, BC, Vandy and a handful of others... the argument is not nearly as inviting since the diploma received has very real value attached to it.

[Bryn Mawr Eagle]

The National Labor Relations Board (or more accurately, a Regional Director of the NLRB in Chicago) held today that they are employees and can unionize: http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/26/us/northwestern-football-union/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Of course.

Now that decision will be appealed to a panel of the NLRB in Washington, but the Board may actually hold the election before the appeal is heard or decided.

[talon]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/sto ... d-unionize

In a potentially game-changing moment for college athletics, the Chicago district of the National Labor Relations Board ruled on Wednesday that Northwestern football players qualify as employees of the university and can unionize.

NLRB regional director Peter Sung Ohr cited the players' time commitment to their sport and the fact their scholarships were tied directly to their performance as reasons for granting them union rights.

Ohr wrote in his ruling that the players "fall squarely within the [National Labor Relations] Act's broad definition of 'employee' when one considers the common law definition of 'employee.'"

Ohr ruled that the players can hold a vote on whether they want to be represented by the College Athletes Players Association, which brought the case to the NLRB along with former Wildcats quarterback Kain Colter and the United Steelworkers Union.

"I couldn't be more happy and grateful for today's ruling, though it is the ruling we expected," said Huma Ramogi, president of both the National College Players Assn, a non-profit advocacy group that has been around since 2001, and the College Athletes Players Association, the union that would represent the players and was formed in January

"I just have so much respect for Kain and the football players who stood up in unity to take this on. They love their university but they think it's important to exercise rights under labor law.

"The NCAA invented the term student athlete to prevent the exact ruling that was made today. For 60 years, people have bought into their notion that they are students only. The reality is, players are employees and today's ruling confirms that. The players are one giants step closer to justice."

Northwestern issued a statement shortly after the ruling saying it would appeal to the full NLRB in Washington, D.C.
"While we respect the NLRB process and the regional director's opinion, we disagree with it," the statement read. "Northwestern believes strongly that our student-athletes are not employees, but students. Unionization and collective bargaining are not the appropriate methods to address the concerns raised by student-athletes."

CAPA supporters, meanwhile, celebrated the news. Colter tweeted: "This is a HUGE win for ALL college athletes!"

[DuchesneEast]

Huge win????? This would be the only way I would have been OK with BC dropping all scholarships and joining the Patriot League.

I love the athletes playing for the school, the second you have a whiny Union is when you can start booing them for sucking. I think it should also make scholarships be able to be pulled if you suck.

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

...a whiny Union...

everyone i've ever met from union is whiny.

[DuchesneEast]

...a whiny Union...

everyone i've ever met from union is whiny.

I was referring to the northern abomination.

[eepstein0]

Huge win????? This would be the only way I would have been OK with BC dropping all scholarships and joining the Patriot League.

I love the athletes playing for the school, the second you have a whiny Union is when you can start booing them for sucking. I think it should also make scholarships be able to be pulled if you suck.

Does this mean I'm now on solid ground to blame our basketball team for sucking?

[TobaccoRoadEagle]

not until they join a union. c'mon asshat, even you're better than that

[eepstein0]

not until they join a union. c'mon asshat, even you're better than that

I also have some ideas of scholarships to pull. Unfortunately, I'm not sure we'd have enough players left to field a team

[RegalBCeagle]

Fuck Unions. My daughter was in the NH State Spelling Bee about a month ago. It took place in Concord. When we departed, some newspaper guild union was picketing outside. I wanted to smash a sign off their ugly faces. Picketing a children's spelling bee? Really? Fucking assholes.

I can't wait to see the domino effect this could have on college athletics. Programs and scholarships could go by the wayside. You want more out of this deal? OK, let's just cut your fucking job/scholly. Looks like there simply isn't such a thing as "more of nothing." Now fuck you, pay us for your education, then schlep off to the "management training program" at Enterprise Rent-A-Car with your $200k debt. Ooopsie!

[HJS]

Fuck Unions. My daughter was in the NH State Spelling Bee about a month ago. It took place in Concord. When we departed, some newspaper guild union was picketing outside. I wanted to smash a sign off their ugly faces. Picketing a children's spelling bee? Really? Fucking assholes.

I can't wait to see the domino effect this could have on college athletics. Programs and scholarships could go by the wayside. You want more out of this deal? OK, let's just cut your fucking job/scholly. Looks like there simply isn't such a thing as "more of nothing." Now fuck you, pay us for your education, then schlep off to the "management training program" at Enterprise Rent-A-Car with your $200k debt. Ooopsie!

The NLRB is as political an organization as there is. If a Rep was sitting, this is decided very differently (not unlike how Grad Assistants were claimed to be employees at the Regional level and then it was overturned under W).

That said (and as I posted earlier), these dumb jocks don't know have a clue as to the ramifications (nor do the lefties beaming about it nationally). Football (and likely basketball) players are not students, they are Employees (mainly because of the benefits they receive and the money they generate).

One ramification will be the going to be the gutting of all nag sports. If football/basketball is no longer an "academic activity", they are removed from the Title IX equation. Further, for antitrust purposes, schools cannot collude as to what they will pay players. So, initially the Big Ten or the NCAA cannot agree as to how much players will be paid. They could, however, ultimately enter discussions with the players union and agree on a salary cap. Further, if they are not students, and are instead employees... the entire NW football team is already in violation of the NCAA amateur status. Also, as an employee, there could be potential claims made by players who are being "fired" due to their age just because they exhausted some sort of arbitrary eligibility term. Also, linking their continued employment to unrelated academic performance... or even the mandate to take classes at the school... raises a whole new set of potential legal action. Again, some of these could be resolved through collective bargaining. But 26 States have public schools who won't have to deal with this issue (because they are Right to Work states).

I'm guessing this ultimately gets overturned like the Maurice Clarrett case. Or, I'm guessing that Congress will actually step in to save Teddy Roosevelt's NCAA. You won't get votes from Cali, Mass, Illinois, NY, NJ, NY, RI, VT... but, even in Union-friendly places like Michigan and Ohio... college football is more important than the Labor movement.

[BCMurt09]

This feels like a case of the dog finally catching the car and not knowing what to do with it. While the players are now "empowered," this also gives the schools a tremendous amount of power as the employer.

I imagine the Northwestern players are smarter than your average college football player and have a pretty good plan in mind, but I don't think they realize the second and third order effects of this.