Proxy-War

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Proxy-War

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:19 am

BCWest on EA {l Wrote}:There are a bunch of folks who say you can't evaluate Daz to date. That is true in terms of the long run. But you can compare him to others in a similar situation and how they did with their first classes.

Take a look at all the coaches who were hired this past few months. Take only the programs that fired their previous coach because they were not happy with the prior coach's performance. So in none of these cases was the program on the upswing. Some of them were further down than others. No question BC is way down.

Looking at Rivals and how these coaches did, here are some apples to apples comparisons and some facts. I won't even bring up Auburn (10th rated class), Tennessee (20th rated class), and Arkansas (26th rated). Those are all football factories that turned over coaches. But look at the rest and compare what Daz did recruiting wise.


CU: Mike MacIntyre
67th rated class. Signed an additional 7 guys, 4 with Big 5 offers besides CU. 2 kids he flipped that he had at San Jose State. All from Cali. One local kid he took from CSU who was highly recruited before he blew out his knee. Mac found out how his recovery was going and jumped on him when he found out the kid was doing great.

CU was 1-11, were out scored 214 to 552, they have gone 12-37 the past 4 years, and have not had a winning season since 2005. So clearly they are way down and actually in a much worse situation than BC.

Purdue: Darrell Hazell
55th rated class. 13 kids committed to Hazzell! Not 13 total, 13 after he came on board. He kept the 10 kids on board before he came in. Of the 13 new ones, 8 were 3 stars. Of the five 2 stars he went and got they are from NY, GA, IL, OH and Florida. Of the ten highest ranked kids in his class, he landed 8 of them in January and February.

Purdue has one winning season in 5 years (7-6). And they are Purdue! Clearly in just as bad a situation as BC.

USF: Willie Taggert.
51st rated class. 15 kids added after he got on board. Two 4 stars! Ten 3 stars. Two 2 stars. Is there anything else to say other than wow?

Last three years mirror very similar to BC with back to back losing seasons, coming off a 3-9 year. 8-5 three years ago. But in addition to that, they don't even have a conference home and they have no status as a participant in college football's new playoff system because they are on the outside looking in.

NC State: David Doren
46th rated class. 12 news kids after Doren got on board. 8 three stars. Of the two stars he went to GA for a QB, NY for an OL, SC for a DB and FL for a DB.

Under TOB they went 40-36 and had one winning record in conference over 6 years. BC went 41-37 over the same period, but had 4 of 6 winning seasons and actually had a winning record in conf 3 times. NC State has been better last two years than BC for sure. But the two are in the same ballpark.

Cal: Sonny Dykes
29th rated class. Enough said right there since Sonny went out and got 17 new kids to come on board. 14 three stars and 3 two stars.

Like BC they had some success not that long ago. But just went 3-9, were outscored 276-397, and like BC have had only one winning season in 3 years (7-6). Again, same ballpark as BC.

Kentucky: Mark Stoops
28th rated class. Stoops goes out and gets 14 more kids. Three 4 star kids! Nine 3 star kids. And two 2 star kids. Finishes with 28th ranked class in US at Kentucky. That is great for Kentucky any year let alone with a coach who had two months to put it together.

They just went 2-10 and were outscored 215-372. And just like BC their last winning season was 4 years ago. Again, very similar to BC. Plus Kentucky is not exactly a pillar of football history.

Boston College: Dazzler
87th ranked class. Daz added 4 kids, 2 of which were 4 year players. One 3 star and one 2 star. Between them no BCS offers, no offers from anywhere but the MAC. Does Albany even offer scholarships? Seriously?

How does it all compare?
Daz essentially brought in 2 kids. He is selling it as 4 kids, but he had 4 schollies. One a transfer at OL with one year of eligibility left. Another transfer, his son, who was two star recruit the year Louie came out. USF, Cuse, and Akron were his offers. The two 4 year players Daz did get; One a QB with 5 MAC offers. Another a RB with an offer from Albany. A kid that Daz did not even offer when he was at Temple after the kid came to his Temple camp. How impressive is that for one of the four schollies you have?

Apples to apples, how did Daz do vs his peers? You can grade it on your own. Daz had 4 to give and got a kid he did not offer while at Temple, his son, a transfer with a year left and a QB without a BCS offer which also told Boyle to hit the road. I don't know how anyone can objectively say this was a good start to the Daz era. As for the "I only had a few schollies to give" argument, I don't buy it. If you only have a couple, or 3, or 4, you better make them count. They should be decent to good players. You had just a few slots and the least you could do was sell 2 or 3 solid kids. As for Boyle leaving, sure I get it. He does not fit your system. You are going to run 2/3 of the time and do it out of a semi-spread. But you can't say that scares off pro style QBs in one breath and then say it is not a selling a point to get a strong RB recruit. Your depth chart at RB is wide open, you are gonna run 2/3 of the time, and you can't sell ONE well rated recruit at RB?

My take. Daz's results are clearly the worst of the guys who took over programs where the previous coach was fired and the programs were not strong. Does it mean Daz will fail? Of course not. But it is another big red flag. Add that red flag to the others like what Florida thought of his results as OC, the fact he just went 4-7 at Temple, and his staff hires overall look very average compared to the rest of the ACC staffs. The result of his start? He has done nothing to date to assuage concerns that he was a subpar hire.


So BCwest posted this on EA. It shows how good the contemporary (timing wise) hires, Hazell, Doeren, Stoops, Dykes, Macintyre, Taggert did with transition class recruiting. Its a well researched post. I don't post over there but wanted to respond anyway because while it is truly damning if you discount the difference in verbals inherited and total scholarships taken together with restrictions on reneging commitments, I'd argue that taking the comparison with such information discounted is not valid.

Here is the information that I believe makes it an invalid comparison:

Purdue: Darrell Hazell - Eventual class size (23); Inherited Commits* (9) --> spots used by new coach 14

USF: Willie Taggert. - Eventual class size (22); Inherited Commits* (6) --> spots used by new coach 16

CU: Mike MacIntyre - Eventual class size (19); Inherited Commits* (12) --> spots used by new coach 7

NC State: David Doren - Eventual class size (23); Inherited Commits* (11) --> spots used by new coach 12

Cal: Sonny Dykes - Eventual class size (26); Inherited Commits* (9) --> spots used by new coach 17

Kentucky: Mark Stoops - Eventual class size (22); Inherited Commits* (8) --> spots used by new coach 14

BC: The Dazzler - Eventual class size (15); Inherited Commits* (17 - 4 decommits) --> spots used by new coach 2**

* Inherited commits is inexact. The amount of decommits or reneged scholarships is not easily ascertainable information. Therefore, it is entirely possible that the inherited commitment numbers for the compared coaches were actually higher than shown.
** I don't know what to do with L. Addazio and Patchan. From a straight roster spot breakdown, Addazio had zero (actually -1) spots when he arrived. Geiger decommitted first on 12/8 (either 1 or zero open spots), Daniels on 12/14 (either 1 or 2), L. Addazio transfers on 1/3 (if he gets a schollie back down to 1 or zero, if not still at 1 or 2) Monteroso on 1/22 (anywhere from 1-3) Walsh commits in this time period (anywhere from 0-2) and Boyle last weekend anywhere from 1-3) Then Patch and Rouse come aboard (anywhere from -1 to 1).

The fifth/sixth years based on the post in the other thread that breaks down roster spots are Ramsey, Ian White, Andre Lawrence, Jonathan Coleman, Kasim Edebali, Duece Finch, Bryan Davis, Freese, Naples and Sinkovec.

Drunkle Dave and Marco polo didn't play at all last year (I think) so arguably they have eligibility left too but they were not included in the 86 count. Davenport is also not on the list even though Spazoo gave him a schollie last year.

So seeing as Ramsey, White, Lawrence, Coleman Edebali, Finch, Davis, Freese, Naples and Sinkovec were all on the two deep and 8 of them are potential starters, who do you not ask back for a 5th/6th? If BC isn't going to allow the Dazzler to cut ties on verbals, is it really going to allow him to oversign counting on undergrad attrition? If so, by how many players 2? 3?
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby twballgame9 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:25 am

Not only does Albany offer scholarships, I for one am a little surprised that they lost a recruit to BC.

Regardless, BCWest lost his fastball faster than campion. I am no fan of Addazio - yet - but this argument is worthless. It is based on an entirely erroneous premise - that Addazio could have gone out and signed a handful of more players without running off the guys that are here.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby Iggle on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:30 am

I am unimpressed with Addazio and his recruiting thus far but of course there are circumstances that made it tough to DAZZLE this year. I'm not happy, but will save my total judgment for next year's class. I think being ranked 6-7 for recruiting in the ACC is the lower end of what I hope for.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby 31southst on Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:59 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Not only does Albany offer scholarships, I for one am a little surprised that they lost a recruit to BC.

Regardless, BCWest lost his fastball faster than campion. I am no fan of Addazio - yet - but this argument is worthless. It is based on an entirely erroneous premise - that Addazio could have gone out and signed a handful of more players without running off the guys that are here.


I think that's an ancillary point. I think the major point is Daz could have gone out and signed 4 better players.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:07 am

31southst {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Not only does Albany offer scholarships, I for one am a little surprised that they lost a recruit to BC.

Regardless, BCWest lost his fastball faster than campion. I am no fan of Addazio - yet - but this argument is worthless. It is based on an entirely erroneous premise - that Addazio could have gone out and signed a handful of more players without running off the guys that are here.


I think that's an ancillary point. I think the major point is Daz could have gone out and signed 4 better players.


Yes, assuming that you take out the reason it is an invalid comparison it is a good comparison and then it shows that Daz should have gone out and signed 4 better players.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby RegalBCeagle on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:12 am

West's argument is subjective, but does point out the simple fact that new coaches for similarly performing programs were able to more effectively fill available spots than The Dazzler. Fuck this class no matter what. We had too many terrible commitments to the Spaz regime to allow The Dazzler the opportunity to fill those spots with late "gets." With that said, 2 of the 4 recruits he did pull in are very highly questionable, one is a 1 year player, and one could potentially pay off (Rouse). The most damning thing is that Dazzler ran off our highest rated commitments - kids that committed to a lame-duck Spaz!

I am less than encouraged with the start of his tenure because of the weak national search by Bates, and the results of this year's recruiting class, but ultimately I'm going to judge Addazio on what I see on the field next season and next year's recruiting class.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby twballgame9 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:19 am

RegalBCeagle {l Wrote}:West's argument is subjective, but does point out the simple fact that new coaches for similarly performing programs were able to more effectively fill available spots than The Dazzler. Fuck this class no matter what. We had too many terrible commitments to the Spaz regime to allow The Dazzler the opportunity to fill those spots with late "gets." With that said, 2 of the 4 recruits he did pull in are very highly questionable, one is a 1 year player, and one could potentially pay off (Rouse). The most damning thing is that Dazzler ran off our highest rated commitments - kids that committed to a lame-duck Spaz!

I am less than encouraged with the start of his tenure because of the weak national search by Bates, and the results of this year's recruiting class, but ultimately I'm going to judge Addazio on what I see on the field next season and next year's recruiting class.


It's easy to fill more slots when those slots exist.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:22 am

RegalBCeagle {l Wrote}:West's argument is subjective, but does point out the simple fact that new coaches for similarly performing programs were able to more effectively fill available spots than The Dazzler. Fuck this class no matter what. We had too many terrible commitments to the Spaz regime to allow The Dazzler the opportunity to fill those spots with late "gets." With that said, 2 of the 4 recruits he did pull in are very highly questionable, one is a 1 year player, and one could potentially pay off (Rouse). The most damning thing is that Dazzler ran off our highest rated commitments - kids that committed to a lame-duck Spaz!

I am less than encouraged with the start of his tenure because of the weak national search by Bates, and the results of this year's recruiting class, but ultimately I'm going to judge Addazio on what I see on the field next season and next year's recruiting class.


Yes. and for clarification I am not saying the class is impressive or that Addazio has shown any recruiting ability thus far at BC.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, considering the graduation of both of our tackles and the fact that this year is likely our easiest path to a winning season in the next two, which has perception implications, If Patchan is a starting T for the majority of games next year he is a pretty good acquisition and I am fine with taking him over a later flier even realizing he is injury prone, only around for a year and that a flier could end up being the next Harris or Castanzo.

I don't like using a scholarship on Addazio's kid if there is a crunch at all.

If Boyle turns out to be Matty Ice 2.0 then this will be looked back upon as a major error.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby HJS on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:35 am

Who was the old staff planning on cutting when they were still recruiting the likes of Rachid Ibrahim, Donnie White, Jr., Kevin Maurice, Jacquille Veii, Eric Tetlow, Kingsley Opara, Hunter Knighton, Fred Coppett, Brian Lamelle, Dionte Taylor and were still keeping tabs on Maurice Hurst, Jr. and Jack McDonald???

Clearly, we had more ships available than the ZERO that Dazoo blames for his TOTAL FAIL in recruiting since arriving on campus. Look, I don't think he had a lot to work with, but I think he had 2 or 3 shich increased with each decommit. That said, it is impossible to compare a coach bringing in 14 kids to one who only has 6 or 7 ships at his disposal. So, looking at BCWOFW's list, it seems that only MacIntyre is the only true apples-to-apples comparison. Not surprisingly, his results were the least underwhelming (outside of Dazoo's trainwreck) on that list.

I think what makes it difficult for people to accept at face value Daziani's excuse du jour (that he didn't have any ships) is the truly poor way in which he filled the precious few spots he claims were avaialble. If he got Woullard or Brissett or Julian... if he closed Coppet or any of the other names that surfaced in December... essentially, if did well filling the ships he had available, you could say that he ran out of schollies. Instead, the only 2 4-year ships he gave were to two players who were among the least recruited in this 80+ class. When each verballed, the best anyone could say is that they were worth a flyer. No one would have said that they were worth 1 of only 2 that would be handed out since Dazoo took office.

BTW... Giving a ship to his son means nothing to me. That is for his family and not the program. Did we desperately need another TE who barely played at Cuse (and one who will have to sit out a year before we can him for 1, maybe 2 seasons)??? Hell no! The only reason he is on this team is so he can be with his dad. That's great and all for him and Dazoo, but it has nothing to do with a benefit to the program. I think that ship shows that we had a lot more to play with than what is being said (well at least I hope it does because the alternative is worse). Think about this... if he truly had zero ships, what does it say that he gave his son the last and ONLY ship available (based on Geiger's departure)??? I mean, if Daniels and Monteroso didn't decommit, we would have chosen Daz 2 Eleectric Bugaloo over Patcham? What if McDonald or Hurst decided to stay home? We would have told them sorry... we took the coach's son instead???

At the end of the day, West's post is of limited use as a comparison to Daz because the majority of these coaches had a ton of ships to work with. However, where I do think it informative is that it dispells the 9903 WAWWA attitude of "what do you expect... BC is a terrible program... only a miracle worker can recruit here" nonsense. BC is as attractive or more attractive than any of those mentioned in this thread and yet those other new coaching staffs were ablet to come in and sell their crap programs to quality players. Regardless of the number ships available, Daz was unable to do this for a single recruit. That is simply unacceptable and should be seen as nothing but a failure. Does that means he is doomed? Of course not. It is, however, another red flag for a hire that the fanbase was less supportive of than the promotion of Spaz four years ago.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:41 am

i blame bates and the uofm(o) scoreboard
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby 31southst on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:42 am

I think the point is simply that other coaches who inherited crappy situations were able to find a surprising number of decently regarded players (e.g., other BCS level offers) to come and play. Daz couldn't find any.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:45 am

31southst {l Wrote}:I think the point is simply that other coaches who inherited crappy situations were able to find a surprising number of decently regarded players (e.g., other BCS level offers) to come and play. Daz couldn't find any.


That may be the point, but my point is that those coaches inherited a dissimilar crappy situation so are a poor comparison.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby HJS on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:45 am

31southst {l Wrote}:I think the point is simply that other coaches who inherited crappy situations were able to find a surprising number of decently regarded players (e.g., other BCS level offers) to come and play. Daz couldn't find any.

What evidence is there that, if BC had 14 ships available, Dazoo would be able to do better than Walsh and Rouse. I think teddy should consider it lucky as Daziani might've decided to poach the entire U of Albany recruiting class.
Last edited by HJS on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby Cadillac90 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:58 am

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
31southst {l Wrote}:I think the point is simply that other coaches who inherited crappy situations were able to find a surprising number of decently regarded players (e.g., other BCS level offers) to come and play. Daz couldn't find any.


That may be the point, but my point is that those coaches inherited a dissimilar crappy situation so are a poor comparison.


I don't think this is the case. I think West's argument is solid. At the end of the day, the Dazzler didn't dazzle with the 4 new players he landed, plain and simple. Stop the excuses for the guy. The only bright spot is that during the press conference, I was encouraged to hear the Dazzler take on the responsibilty for recruiting going forward. I actually have some hope that he and his coaching staff will actually do a decent job on the recruiting front.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:00 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:Who was the old staff planning on cutting when they were still recruiting the likes of Rachid Ibrahim, Donnie White, Jr., Kevin Maurice, Jacquille Veii, Eric Tetlow, Kingsley Opara, Hunter Knighton, Fred Coppett, Brian Lamelle, Dionte Taylor and were still keeping tabs on Maurice Hurst, Jr. and Jack McDonald???


I'll leave off the part where you more or less agree with me with a reminder that I think you forgot to call me eaglewingz. Maybe WAWAA will catch on better, I don't know.

As to the above, putting aside the obvious fact that Spaz knew without a doubt he was on the way out so his motivation for actually having a strategy is a little bit in question and that there is plenty of evidence to the contrary like the finishing recruiting in August and that you know quite well the old staff had no prayer with many of those players (Tetlow, Knighton, Hurst and Montgomery most specifically) and it being unclear whether Lamelle, Coppett or Maurice were even being recruited at the end of the Spaz tenure and putting aside the likelihood of defections from the Spaz class in the absolutely miniscule chance Spaz had continued (by the way any motivation this staff had to recruit in September was absolutely gone by 10/6/12):

We know that there was at least one more spot for Spaz following Jasudowich's decommitment, Montgomery's. So there is one spot. I don't find it unlikely that a player like Ramsey would not want to play for Spaz for another year based on history, so there is potentially an additional spot. Just because BC applied for a 6th year for him doesn't mean he has to spend it at BC (I am assuming he has or could have graduated by now).
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:01 pm

Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
31southst {l Wrote}:I think the point is simply that other coaches who inherited crappy situations were able to find a surprising number of decently regarded players (e.g., other BCS level offers) to come and play. Daz couldn't find any.


That may be the point, but my point is that those coaches inherited a dissimilar crappy situation so are a poor comparison.


I don't think this is the case. I think West's argument is solid. At the end of the day, the Dazzler didn't dazzle with the 4 new players he landed, plain and simple. Stop the excuses for the guy. The only bright spot is that during the press conference, I was encouraged to hear the Dazzler take on the responsibilty for recruiting going forward. I actually have some hope that he and his coaching staff will actually do a decent job on the recruiting front.


Fine, I am pretty sure it is unequivocally different to have many scholarships available than to have very few, but you are certainly free to disagree.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby TobaccoRoadEagle on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:05 pm

i like and miss wawa

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Re: Proxy-War

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:20 pm

Flutie_in_2004 {l Wrote}: Question: How many scholarships did Daz have available the day he took over as head coach of BC?

Provided BC promised to honor all the verbal commitments they received under Spaz (which they said they would), Daz had 88 players on scholarships the day he took over.

Using the comparison of how all these other coaches closed out there classes is painfully inaccurate and inappropriate. I thought better of you than that BCWest.

So, some people don't buy the limited scholarships argument and that Daz should have taken more verbal commitments from players and then relied on attrition that is bound to come about...sorry got to call Bull Sh!t on relying on attrition with this team right now.

Argument: He could have denied more 5th year Seniors to open up some scholarships!

Counterargument: Who? Every Senior player but ONE (Jaryd Rudolph) was on the 2-Deep at the end of last season. And as for Jaryd he was not on the 2-Deep only because of injury as he started 5 games earlier that season. Oh, and he plays at the thinnest position on the roster.

Argument: We can essentially pressure some of the 2013 class recruits to possibly seek other options because they might not be the best fit in the new offensive and defensive schemes!

Counterargument: Again, Who? The recruit with no other BCS offers? The recruit with no other FBS offers? Or the recruit with no other offers from other schools that offer scholarships whatsoever? You were stuck with those 2 star guys that Spaz got verbals from earlier in the season whether you liked it or not.

Argument: They will be putting the players through rigorous training during the Winter weight lifting sessions and likewise in the Spring practices. Some players are bound to drop off the team or request a transfer to another school in particular if it is becoming clear that they don't fit into the new offensive and defensive schemes as well!

Counterargument: One more time, Who? This team was just 2-10. Think other schools are dying to offer a scholarship to a player that can't even make the 2-Deep on a roster like that? These are kids that either would transfer to a school where they'd be buried on the depth chart if they can actually find a BCS school that would take them OR they are players that would be dropping out of BCS level playing opportunities to see if they can have a fresh start on a new team OR these are players that would actually be willing to give up their free scholarship at a Top 30 university to instead drop down to FCS level football or below where they might be able to play/start on a team but in exchange suddenly are now making good old Ma and Pa pick up the tuition bill instead.

In my opinion you really have to give Daz a pass on having the 2013 recruiting class be any sort of true evaluation of his coaching skills.

As any sane fan should do right now I'll wait to pass judgment until the 2013 season begins and the 2014 recruiting class begins to take shape.



I don't agree with the last argument, but otherwise think there are good points here. I am sure there will be defections.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby 31southst on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:30 pm

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
31southst {l Wrote}:I think the point is simply that other coaches who inherited crappy situations were able to find a surprising number of decently regarded players (e.g., other BCS level offers) to come and play. Daz couldn't find any.


That may be the point, but my point is that those coaches inherited a dissimilar crappy situation so are a poor comparison.


If we really only had 2 open scholarships, shouldn't it be easier to find 2 high level guys versus something like 6-10? Daz couldn't even get 2. If anything, the other situations were harder (fill up a class with BCS level talent) and yet they did more.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby HJS on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:35 pm

Taking the pollyanna from EA's view at face value...
What does it say that he gave the only one then available to his son... who has essentially no value to the program?
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:38 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:Taking the pollyanna from EA's view at face value...
What does it say that he gave the only one then available to his son... who has essentially no value to the program?


I hate it if that is what happened, although he did have Syracuse and South Florida offers which makes him better than most of the recruits in the class, but is it clear he counts as a scholarship?
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby PhillyandBCEagles on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:47 pm

HJS {l Wrote}:Who was the old staff planning on cutting when they were still recruiting the likes of Rachid Ibrahim, Donnie White, Jr., Kevin Maurice, Jacquille Veii, Eric Tetlow, Kingsley Opara, Hunter Knighton, Fred Coppett, Brian Lamelle, Dionte Taylor and were still keeping tabs on Maurice Hurst, Jr. and Jack McDonald???


They were planning on cutting junior/senior starters who were "poor fits"
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby twballgame9 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:51 pm

Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
31southst {l Wrote}:I think the point is simply that other coaches who inherited crappy situations were able to find a surprising number of decently regarded players (e.g., other BCS level offers) to come and play. Daz couldn't find any.


That may be the point, but my point is that those coaches inherited a dissimilar crappy situation so are a poor comparison.


I don't think this is the case. I think West's argument is solid. At the end of the day, the Dazzler didn't dazzle with the 4 new players he landed, plain and simple. Stop the excuses for the guy. The only bright spot is that during the press conference, I was encouraged to hear the Dazzler take on the responsibilty for recruiting going forward. I actually have some hope that he and his coaching staff will actually do a decent job on the recruiting front.


West's argument is retarded.

Again, 86 players on scholarship.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby h2o on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:52 pm

PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:Who was the old staff planning on cutting when they were still recruiting the likes of Rachid Ibrahim, Donnie White, Jr., Kevin Maurice, Jacquille Veii, Eric Tetlow, Kingsley Opara, Hunter Knighton, Fred Coppett, Brian Lamelle, Dionte Taylor and were still keeping tabs on Maurice Hurst, Jr. and Jack McDonald???


They were planning on cutting junior/senior starters who were "poor fits"


AKA players that told Spazoo to go fuck himself.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby twballgame9 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:53 pm

31southst {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
31southst {l Wrote}:I think the point is simply that other coaches who inherited crappy situations were able to find a surprising number of decently regarded players (e.g., other BCS level offers) to come and play. Daz couldn't find any.


That may be the point, but my point is that those coaches inherited a dissimilar crappy situation so are a poor comparison.


If we really only had 2 open scholarships, shouldn't it be easier to find 2 high level guys versus something like 6-10? Daz couldn't even get 2. If anything, the other situations were harder (fill up a class with BCS level talent) and yet they did more.


Is math really this hard. You can count the scholarships.

The rest of your argument is fine, but it was an ancillary point to West's diatribe of the 16 person classes the other new guys got.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby 31southst on Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:18 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
31southst {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
31southst {l Wrote}:I think the point is simply that other coaches who inherited crappy situations were able to find a surprising number of decently regarded players (e.g., other BCS level offers) to come and play. Daz couldn't find any.


That may be the point, but my point is that those coaches inherited a dissimilar crappy situation so are a poor comparison.


If we really only had 2 open scholarships, shouldn't it be easier to find 2 high level guys versus something like 6-10? Daz couldn't even get 2. If anything, the other situations were harder (fill up a class with BCS level talent) and yet they did more.


Is math really this hard. You can count the scholarships.

The rest of your argument is fine, but it was an ancillary point to West's diatribe of the 16 person classes the other new guys got.

I disagree that the point was that how many players the other coaches took (although eventually West can just tell us his point and correct me if I'm wrong). I think his point was other coaches were able to get a fair amount of high level talent in similar situations to Daz, yet Daz couldn't get any. Should it really be easier for Colorado to get 4 guys with other top 5 conference options or Purdue to get 8 3-star guys (using this as an admittedly poor proxy for other offers) than it is for BC to get any?
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:44 pm

31southst {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
31southst {l Wrote}:
eagle9903 {l Wrote}:
31southst {l Wrote}:I think the point is simply that other coaches who inherited crappy situations were able to find a surprising number of decently regarded players (e.g., other BCS level offers) to come and play. Daz couldn't find any.


That may be the point, but my point is that those coaches inherited a dissimilar crappy situation so are a poor comparison.


If we really only had 2 open scholarships, shouldn't it be easier to find 2 high level guys versus something like 6-10? Daz couldn't even get 2. If anything, the other situations were harder (fill up a class with BCS level talent) and yet they did more.


Is math really this hard. You can count the scholarships.

The rest of your argument is fine, but it was an ancillary point to West's diatribe of the 16 person classes the other new guys got.

I disagree that the point was that how many players the other coaches took (although eventually West can just tell us his point and correct me if I'm wrong). I think his point was other coaches were able to get a fair amount of high level talent in similar situations to Daz, yet Daz couldn't get any. Should it really be easier for Colorado to get 4 guys with other top 5 conference options or Purdue to get 8 3-star guys (using this as an admittedly poor proxy for other offers) than it is for BC to get any?


Yeah, it definitely is harder to recruit for fewer positions than more. Not just in terms of getting more guys but also in general terms of strategy to get higher ranked players. E.g. it is easier to offer more than one player and/or position at a time
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby HJS on Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:49 pm

Through emails, other message boards and blogs, I will point out that these hysterics are occurring throughout the entire fanbase (with only a few dutifully playing the role of Kevin Bacon).
Image

This all goes to how absolutely terribly received the hire has been. The mere act of firing Spaz brought people back to the program. It was the least controversial firing in the NCAA. Everyone ready to go in a new direction. However, they took all that pent-up excitement and goodwill and pissed it away. As has been said many times, by bringing in a woefully underwhelming hire, there would be no honeymoon. Daz was put immediately on the clock and each and every move he made from that point on would be scrutinized. The few positive moves (like hiring Don Brown were met with cautious optimism) and every perceived misstep has been criticized. The problem is that there simply hasn't been enough to be cautiously optimistic about.

Some will say that this isn't fair. They'd say that if Greg Roman or Bob Diaco was hired and they did literally EVERYTHING exactly the same as Dazoo has done, no one would be complaining. Instead, we'd be making excuses and asking for time. They'd be right. But, that is really the difference between hiring a known quantity versus someone with perceived upside. Nonetheless, Daziani is sitting on a 6 year $10.5mm contract (my guess) to handle such "injustice". BTW... this is just the tip of the iceberg. Apathy and hatred will continue like it was under Spaz if Daziani has a crap year and/or sucksass again in recruiting.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby twballgame9 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:56 pm

Shit ain't well. Just would ask people to rationally articulate the reasons why.
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Re: Proxy-War

Postby eagle9903 on Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:18 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Shit ain't well. Just would ask people to rationally articulate the reasons why.


basically my point all along, the HomOJs stalking is really just due to my poor conflict avoidance skills.

Example: "Addazio is a worse recruiter than Spaziani" posted on or before February 6, 2013 = a statement not capable of support through a rationally articulated reasoning.
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