EagleOutsider.com

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:I looked at the roster with the intention of furthering my position that there is no upside to booting recruits. I was operating under the assumption that we had less players on scholarship than we actually do. I was wrong, it is hardly as clearcut as I was assuming and seems to depend a lot on upperclassman attrition.

While you certainly can make the argument (as you so allude) that we really don't have THAT many ships for this year, I was thinking more a couple of years out. Last year's class was a trainwreck. This year's class is somehow worse. The new coach will realistically do little to change that.

ATL will tell you that at this each recruit is valuable because they are simply bodies in the program who can at least be used in practice. That may be true and you can also probably predict that 1 of the 7+ fliers Spazoo recruited this year will turn out to not be horrible.

However, I can see a new coach saying eff this year!!! There is very little I will be able to do as the 2012 and 2013 classes need to be relied upon. I know my Year 3 is going to suck. BB knows that... the fans know that. It's the natural result of what you get when you brought Spaz back for Year 4. I need to focus on my years 4 and 5. As such, what I want to do is be able to recruit 25 kids each of the next 3 seasons. THAT is my path for success.

What make things much, much easier for the next coach is if he was allowed to bring in JuCos who arent' academic risks. They only eat up a few years of scholarship which not only helps bridge the talent gap we have, but also allows the next coach to maximize the size of his recruiting classes (as the ship pops open in 2-3 years). I'm not saying I want Jucos to be a permanent part of the program, but I'm all for it to help diversify Spaz's recruiting. I also have always been a fan of Jucos to help resolve roster holes that develop. BC's fear of going that route never made sense to me (especially after incredible success of players like Lenny Walls and PaulPete).

New coach is not going to write off next season. In coaching time is short and the coaches are arrogant. New coach better hit campus thinking he can win 5-7 games with what is coming back and coming in (which he can, if he knows his shit).

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:New coach is not going to write off next season. In coaching time is short and the coaches are arrogant. New coach better hit campus thinking he can win 5-7 games with what is coming back and coming in (which he can, if he knows his shit).

His win total next year will have zero to do with next year's class. And... however many games he wins next year, you can cut it the eff in half for Years 2 and 3. The albatross hanging over the next coach is going to be the 2012 and 2013 recruiting classes (which is incredible that this is essentially the high-water mark of the program's near future considering how much it has been discussed this year regarding the drastic disparity in talent).

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:New coach is not going to write off next season. In coaching time is short and the coaches are arrogant. New coach better hit campus thinking he can win 5-7 games with what is coming back and coming in (which he can, if he knows his shit).

His win total next year will have zero to do with next year's class. And... however many games he wins next year, you can cut it the eff in half for Years 2 and 3. The albatross hanging over the next coach is going to be the 2012 and 2013 recruiting classes (which is incredible that this is essentially the high-water mark of the program's near future considering how much it has been discussed this year regarding the drastic disparity in talent).

That's fair. That said, Jags brought in 5-6 guys right away late, one which started at OT right away, a corner and a WR that played immediately, a FB/DE that was involved as a frosh, a future starting C/G and one that ended up in the QB mix the following season.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:New coach is not going to write off next season. In coaching time is short and the coaches are arrogant. New coach better hit campus thinking he can win 5-7 games with what is coming back and coming in (which he can, if he knows his shit).

His win total next year will have zero to do with next year's class. And... however many games he wins next year, you can cut it the eff in half for Years 2 and 3. The albatross hanging over the next coach is going to be the 2012 and 2013 recruiting classes (which is incredible that this is essentially the high-water mark of the program's near future considering how much it has been discussed this year regarding the drastic disparity in talent).

That's fair. That said, Jags brought in 5-6 guys right away late, one which started at OT right away, a corner and a WR that played immediately, a FB/DE that was involved as a frosh, a future starting C/G and one that ended up in the QB mix the following season.

The following players committed to Jags in the '07 class:

Corey Eason - Never played for BC, rumored attitude problems
John Elliott - Career ended by injuries, never played for BC
Mark Spinney - Very good player, multi-year starter
Chris Johnson - Buried on depth chart, transferred
Anthony Castonzo - Four-year starter, first true freshman OL to start for BC in over a decade, first round draft pick
Ifeanyi Momah - Four-year contributor
DeLeon Gause - Played as true freshman from day one, starter (due to injuries) by end of year, good player
Brad Newman - Jack-of-all-trades, solid four-year contributor at multiple positions and STs
Dominique Davis - Forced into starting role before he was ready, transferred due to academics/possibly pushed out by Spaz, starred at ECU


The two bolded players were both four-stars, both had been recruited hard by TOB for months and committed shortly after Jags came in. They may have come to BC anyway, may not have. The other seven players were not on BC's radar prior to Jags coming on board. Most were flyers without other quality offers (Spinney had several BCS offers but none from baby rapists, Castonzo was recruited by UVa and Stanford but they wanted to greyshirt him, Momah had a UConn offer, Gause had UConn and Minnesota).....yet aside from Chris Johnson every one of those players turned out to be a good find. Every one except for Johnson and arguably DD contributed at BC, and based on what he did at ECU and earning a spot on the Falcons' roster it's safe to say DD certainly would have given another year or two with Logan.

I imagine this will be a lot like Jags' transition class. The new coach will find a few guys, a few guys will bail on their previous BC commitment and the new coach will also do a Kenny Plue to one or two guys.

The big issue will be the first two full recruiting classes. Assuming attrition and what's coming up, the new coach could conceivably turn the vast majority of the roster. There is room for 25 kids in each of the first two classes. That should mean that by Year 4 we will be on a major upswing.

Based on Jags' immediate success with his super-late recruits, I feel even MORE comfortable with the next coach Kenny Plue'ing most of this class.

PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:New coach is not going to write off next season. In coaching time is short and the coaches are arrogant. New coach better hit campus thinking he can win 5-7 games with what is coming back and coming in (which he can, if he knows his shit).

His win total next year will have zero to do with next year's class. And... however many games he wins next year, you can cut it the eff in half for Years 2 and 3. The albatross hanging over the next coach is going to be the 2012 and 2013 recruiting classes (which is incredible that this is essentially the high-water mark of the program's near future considering how much it has been discussed this year regarding the drastic disparity in talent).

That's fair. That said, Jags brought in 5-6 guys right away late, one which started at OT right away, a corner and a WR that played immediately, a FB/DE that was involved as a frosh, a future starting C/G and one that ended up in the QB mix the following season.

The following players committed to Jags in the '07 class:

Corey Eason - Never played for BC, rumored attitude problems
John Elliott - Career ended by injuries, never played for BC
Mark Spinney - Very good player, multi-year starter
Chris Johnson - Buried on depth chart, transferred
Anthony Castonzo - Four-year starter, first true freshman OL to start for BC in over a decade, first round draft pick
Ifeanyi Momah - Four-year contributor
DeLeon Gause - Played as true freshman from day one, starter (due to injuries) by end of year, good player
Brad Newman - Jack-of-all-trades, solid four-year contributor at multiple positions and STs
Dominique Davis - Forced into starting role before he was ready, transferred due to academics/possibly pushed out by Spaz, starred at ECU


The two bolded players were both four-stars, both had been recruited hard by TOB for months and committed shortly after Jags came in. They may have come to BC anyway, may not have. The other seven players were not on BC's radar prior to Jags coming on board. Most were flyers without other quality offers (Spinney had several BCS offers but none from baby rapists, Castonzo was recruited by UVa and Stanford but they wanted to greyshirt him, Momah had a UConn offer, Gause had UConn and Minnesota).....yet aside from Chris Johnson every one of those players turned out to be a good find. Every one except for Johnson and arguably DD contributed at BC, and based on what he did at ECU and earning a spot on the Falcons' roster it's safe to say DD certainly would have given another year or two with Logan.

I suppose since this is a more detailed version of exactly what I said, I don't really have a response.

HJS {l Wrote}:Based on Jags' immediate success with his super-late recruits, I feel even MORE comfortable with the next coach Kenny Plue'ing most of this class.

You understand BC football as of November 15, 2012 is not anywhere near BC as of mid-December 2006 right? I mean we've pointed out ad nauseum how much less appealing it is than it used to be before your BFF GDF ruined it. Don't you think it might be harder to do some last minute recruiting now than it was then?

Also you started by arguing for telling the current recruits that their scholarships were voided and to piss off. Now you are talking about telling them their scholarship is valid but their future playing time is unlikely. One is unacceptable in my eyes, the other is not.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:New coach is not going to write off next season. In coaching time is short and the coaches are arrogant. New coach better hit campus thinking he can win 5-7 games with what is coming back and coming in (which he can, if he knows his shit).

His win total next year will have zero to do with next year's class. And... however many games he wins next year, you can cut it the eff in half for Years 2 and 3. The albatross hanging over the next coach is going to be the 2012 and 2013 recruiting classes (which is incredible that this is essentially the high-water mark of the program's near future considering how much it has been discussed this year regarding the drastic disparity in talent).

That's fair. That said, Jags brought in 5-6 guys right away late, one which started at OT right away, a corner and a WR that played immediately, a FB/DE that was involved as a frosh, a future starting C/G and one that ended up in the QB mix the following season.

The following players committed to Jags in the '07 class:

Corey Eason - Never played for BC, rumored attitude problems
John Elliott - Career ended by injuries, never played for BC
Mark Spinney - Very good player, multi-year starter
Chris Johnson - Buried on depth chart, transferred
Anthony Castonzo - Four-year starter, first true freshman OL to start for BC in over a decade, first round draft pick
Ifeanyi Momah - Four-year contributor
DeLeon Gause - Played as true freshman from day one, starter (due to injuries) by end of year, good player
Brad Newman - Jack-of-all-trades, solid four-year contributor at multiple positions and STs
Dominique Davis - Forced into starting role before he was ready, transferred due to academics/possibly pushed out by Spaz, starred at ECU


The two bolded players were both four-stars, both had been recruited hard by TOB for months and committed shortly after Jags came in. They may have come to BC anyway, may not have. The other seven players were not on BC's radar prior to Jags coming on board. Most were flyers without other quality offers (Spinney had several BCS offers but none from baby rapists, Castonzo was recruited by UVa and Stanford but they wanted to greyshirt him, Momah had a UConn offer, Gause had UConn and Minnesota).....yet aside from Chris Johnson every one of those players turned out to be a good find. Every one except for Johnson and arguably DD contributed at BC, and based on what he did at ECU and earning a spot on the Falcons' roster it's safe to say DD certainly would have given another year or two with Logan.

I suppose since this is a more detailed version of exactly what I said, I don't really have a response.

Yet there it is

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:Based on Jags' immediate success with his super-late recruits, I feel even MORE comfortable with the next coach Kenny Plue'ing most of this class.

You understand BC football as of November 15, 2012 is not anywhere near BC as of mid-December 2006 right? I mean we've pointed out ad nauseum how much less appealing it is than it used to be before your BFF GDF ruined it. Don't you think it might be harder to do some last minute recruiting now than it was then?

Also you started by arguing for telling the current recruits that their scholarships were voided and to piss off. Now you are talking about telling them their scholarship is valid but their future playing time is unlikely. One is unacceptable in my eyes, the other is not.

While BC was more desireable in 2006, outside of Costanzo, the fliers that Jags took would STILL flee to BC in 2013 as they had no BCS-level offers. If we hire a coach who is currently coaching in college, he will be IMMENSELY more engaged in recruiting than our current staff. I would trust this hypothetical coach much more regarding recruiting than I do Spaz. So, if they are able to get a flier, I am fine with it being at the expense of an ISL kid whose only other option was Merrimack. Who do you want... a flier Spaz picked or a flier that the new coach wants? To me it is a very simple choice.

And... to be clear... if the next coach doesn't want a Spaz recruit, he should not be forced to give him a scholarship. How that info is relayed to the then former recruit is semantics.

PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:New coach is not going to write off next season. In coaching time is short and the coaches are arrogant. New coach better hit campus thinking he can win 5-7 games with what is coming back and coming in (which he can, if he knows his shit).

His win total next year will have zero to do with next year's class. And... however many games he wins next year, you can cut it the eff in half for Years 2 and 3. The albatross hanging over the next coach is going to be the 2012 and 2013 recruiting classes (which is incredible that this is essentially the high-water mark of the program's near future considering how much it has been discussed this year regarding the drastic disparity in talent).

That's fair. That said, Jags brought in 5-6 guys right away late, one which started at OT right away, a corner and a WR that played immediately, a FB/DE that was involved as a frosh, a future starting C/G and one that ended up in the QB mix the following season.

The following players committed to Jags in the '07 class:

Corey Eason - Never played for BC, rumored attitude problems
John Elliott - Career ended by injuries, never played for BC
Mark Spinney - Very good player, multi-year starter
Chris Johnson - Buried on depth chart, transferred
Anthony Castonzo - Four-year starter, first true freshman OL to start for BC in over a decade, first round draft pick
Ifeanyi Momah - Four-year contributor
DeLeon Gause - Played as true freshman from day one, starter (due to injuries) by end of year, good player
Brad Newman - Jack-of-all-trades, solid four-year contributor at multiple positions and STs
Dominique Davis - Forced into starting role before he was ready, transferred due to academics/possibly pushed out by Spaz, starred at ECU


The two bolded players were both four-stars, both had been recruited hard by TOB for months and committed shortly after Jags came in. They may have come to BC anyway, may not have. The other seven players were not on BC's radar prior to Jags coming on board. Most were flyers without other quality offers (Spinney had several BCS offers but none from baby rapists, Castonzo was recruited by UVa and Stanford but they wanted to greyshirt him, Momah had a UConn offer, Gause had UConn and Minnesota).....yet aside from Chris Johnson every one of those players turned out to be a good find. Every one except for Johnson and arguably DD contributed at BC, and based on what he did at ECU and earning a spot on the Falcons' roster it's safe to say DD certainly would have given another year or two with Logan.

Spinney was a pretty good player but "very good" is a stretch. He camped at BC hoping to earn an offer, but didn't. TGOSB said the staff thought he was too small.
DD was expelled from school.

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:

PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:New coach is not going to write off next season. In coaching time is short and the coaches are arrogant. New coach better hit campus thinking he can win 5-7 games with what is coming back and coming in (which he can, if he knows his shit).

His win total next year will have zero to do with next year's class. And... however many games he wins next year, you can cut it the eff in half for Years 2 and 3. The albatross hanging over the next coach is going to be the 2012 and 2013 recruiting classes (which is incredible that this is essentially the high-water mark of the program's near future considering how much it has been discussed this year regarding the drastic disparity in talent).

That's fair. That said, Jags brought in 5-6 guys right away late, one which started at OT right away, a corner and a WR that played immediately, a FB/DE that was involved as a frosh, a future starting C/G and one that ended up in the QB mix the following season.

The following players committed to Jags in the '07 class:

Corey Eason - Never played for BC, rumored attitude problems
John Elliott - Career ended by injuries, never played for BC
Mark Spinney - Very good player, multi-year starter
Chris Johnson - Buried on depth chart, transferred
Anthony Castonzo - Four-year starter, first true freshman OL to start for BC in over a decade, first round draft pick
Ifeanyi Momah - Four-year contributor
DeLeon Gause - Played as true freshman from day one, starter (due to injuries) by end of year, good player
Brad Newman - Jack-of-all-trades, solid four-year contributor at multiple positions and STs
Dominique Davis - Forced into starting role before he was ready, transferred due to academics/possibly pushed out by Spaz, starred at ECU


The two bolded players were both four-stars, both had been recruited hard by TOB for months and committed shortly after Jags came in. They may have come to BC anyway, may not have. The other seven players were not on BC's radar prior to Jags coming on board. Most were flyers without other quality offers (Spinney had several BCS offers but none from baby rapists, Castonzo was recruited by UVa and Stanford but they wanted to greyshirt him, Momah had a UConn offer, Gause had UConn and Minnesota).....yet aside from Chris Johnson every one of those players turned out to be a good find. Every one except for Johnson and arguably DD contributed at BC, and based on what he did at ECU and earning a spot on the Falcons' roster it's safe to say DD certainly would have given another year or two with Logan.

Spinney was a pretty good player but "very good" is a stretch. He camped at BC hoping to earn an offer, but didn't. TGOSB said the staff thought he was too small.
DD was expelled from school.

DD was an academic casualty. I think that's what you meant, but he didn't get booted for discipline right?

One thing Jags didn't do in his transtion class which I hope a new coach can is poach a kid from another BCS school that makes a coaching change. I don't think a Tennessee or Auburn commit is going to suddenly find interest in BC, but we could take swing someone headed to Purdue or Louisville (assuming Charlie Strong leaves).

Spinney was poached from Syracuse, although I'm not sure if they were going through a coaching change or not.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

HJS {l Wrote}:Based on Jags' immediate success with his super-late recruits, I feel even MORE comfortable with the next coach Kenny Plue'ing most of this class.

Also you started by arguing for telling the current recruits that their scholarships were voided and to piss off. Now you are talking about telling them their scholarship is valid but their future playing time is unlikely. One is unacceptable in my eyes, the other is not.

I agree with 9903's blue portion above