When did you stop supporting TOB? Jags? Spaz?

[claver2010]

Spaz -- Liked him a lot as DC, thought the criticism here was unjust. So he kept me for a while as HC. Somewhere during 2010 lost me - maybe Wake, then UCF and Duke last year really cemented it.

I will say that the UCF game was where I went from Spaz sucks and is torpedoing our program to, I just don't care anymore apathy.

I remember that's when I switched over to Michigan-ND game at the half and was happy I did.

[cvilleagle]

Spaz--Navy game after TOB left. That showed me right then before this current mess that this guy is not a HC.

I forgot about that shitshow, even though I was there in person. I assume that at the time I thought "well with a full season of running the team, he'll be better." How wrong I was.

[BCWest]

Spaz:
January 13, 2009. He was a huge mistake from day one. IF there was an ounce of doubt in my mind, it was completely removed 10 days later when he announced that he was hiring Tranq at OC.

TOB:
November 5, 2005. Death by a thousand cuts. There were a lot of times I was done. But the absolute last straw confirming he was incapable of ever learning to be a better coach was when he started Porter over Ryan in the UNC game in 2005 effectively costing BC a chance at the division title. He proved again and again he is incapable of change. Most recently when he let Russell Wilson go.

Jags:
Never. I did not love the hire. BC could have and should have done better. But I never disliked it either. Jags was crazy and Gene a micromanager. If both Jags and GDF could go back knowing everything they know now, both would have worked real hard to make it work at BC. Now Jags is completely unwanted and GDF is facing the potential of having his legacy be the collapse of football and - to a much lesser extent - basketball. Not good.

[SJeagle09]

TOB: Incomplete. (Never stopped? Never started?) Was not a fan of BC prior to '05. Prior to arrival all I knew of TOB was probably something about discipline and/or being a marine. Essentially through the first year I was a "we are what we are" (i.e. isn't BC always something slightly above .500 and winning a bowl game?) Only started becoming a rabid fan in 2006 with those back-to-back double OT games. Was also typically too impaired to be aware of game mismanagement or X's and O's.

Jagz: Never. 2007 was a glorious year even with all the should-have, could-haves. He can bang my dental assistant anytime.

Spaz: Never supported the hire...but still expected above .500 mediocrity and bowl games...he started losing me Clemson, 2009 continued through the Wake game (though the elation of just winning the game held it off) and was completely lost with VT, which I turned off and watched Amherst vs Middlebury.

I am so glad I'm not a current student with the shitty state of athletics (except hockey). '05-'09 were some great years even if the 2 big sports didn't win anything substantial. I'm not a fair weather fan but I can't help but wonder what my fandom would be if the teams were shit.

[pick6pedro]

I'm sensing some insincere comments in here...some non-intentional and some that are revisionist at best. Either way, solid topic.

TOB never lost me as much as I stopped expecting anything other than what he obviously was - a guy who could run a
program and be competitive more often than not. As much as I wanted to get to that next level, I definitely bought into some of the "BC is lucky to even have a football program" mentality. Ah, what youth and inexperience will do for you...

Jags was refreshing. I remember being prepared for Whipple and then being excited the more I learned about the grin. It was too quick a whirlwind to have lost me. I was not disappointed that he wanted to be a pro coach and strike while the iron was hot. But I was disappointed that he got caught up in the pissing match. Despite what either may tell you, one could have easily backed down (well, before ultimatums were laid down) and the ramifications would have been short lived if any. Vandy was shocking because of the preparedness factor, but it didn't stop me from supporting the guy was at the helm of the most exciting years of my BC fandom.

I offered Spaz a chance because I felt that, while not necessarily deserving of the position, that he would just be a stopgap for a better option. As long as he (mostly) stayed the course, I was not going to be upset. Instead, he has dismantled a strong foundation and dne irreparable harm. Honestly, I have no idea when he lost me. It's not something I can pinpoint or even want to dwell too much on.

[Shredder]

TOB: As bad as the Syracuse game was, that didn't completely knock him out for me. Similar to what I said in the basketball version of this thread, I was of the mind that O'Brien's 8-4 consistency was just one thing away from BCS/national title competition. The handling of the Ryan-Porter situation made it clear that it was O'Brien himself that was holding the team back. It wasn't just going with Porter in the UNC game, it was continuing to start him after Ryan won at Clemson and then led the comeback against Wake. The UNC fiasco just cemented that fact.

SPAZ: The Notre Dame home game in 2010. A primetime, nationally televised home game with a fired-up crowd, trying to bounce back from a loss to VT the week before and playing an opponent that the coaches and players get up for (a problem I always saw with TOB but not with Jags was that the team didn't get up for every game)...and the team came out flat and was embarrassed. The injury to Rettig was a blow but the defense couldn't stop ND at all.

[tallsy]

A lot of people are talking about Pitt in '04, but wasn't the officiating brutal in that game? With a ton of phantom penalties. Or am I misremembering?

[hansen]

TOB - '04 Syracuse

Jags - Never

Spaz - Halftime interview of the '09 Clemson game ("It could get ugly").

This

[hansen]

Spaz -- Liked him a lot as DC, thought the criticism here was unjust. So he kept me for a while as HC. Somewhere during 2010 lost me - maybe Wake, then UCF and Duke last year really cemented it.

I will say that the UCF game was where I went from Spaz sucks and is torpedoing our program to, I just don't care anymore apathy.

I remember that's when I switched over to Michigan-ND game at the half and was happy I did.

Apathy for me set in after the NW game. The following week vs UCF was the first week i did not either watch, listen, or follow the game online in 15 years. It was even on at the local bar but I only glanced at the score occasionally...

[nerd]

A lot of people are talking about Pitt in '04, but wasn't the officiating brutal in that game? With a ton of phantom penalties. Or am I misremembering?

Doesn't matter. What matters is that two years ago in the very same stadium, BC lost in OT. In 2004, the game was tied with just over 2 minutes left. BC had all three timeouts. They came out passing, with two completions and an incompletion. Then TOB just decided to run out the clock and play for OT.

This was the moment that I knew that TOB was more scared of losing a game than he was excited about winning a game.

[branchinator]

TOB: Don't think anyone has mentioned that Thursday night game against Va Tech in 2005 when TOB coached with piss dribbling down his leg. He wanted no part of that game even though Blackmon scored to give us a 7-6 lead. I was obviously done with him before that but that game warrants mentioning.

Jags: I just can't resent him. He gave us what we wanted. Had he stayed another year or two, he probably would have fallen back to the mediocrity since his recruiting stopped.

Spaz: Have never liked this shithead.

[Logitano]

TOB: Don't think anyone has mentioned that Thursday night game against Va Tech in 2005 when TOB coached with piss dribbling down his leg. He wanted no part of that game even though Blackmon scored to give us a 7-6 lead. I was obviously done with him before that but that game warrants mentioning.

Jags: I just can't resent him. He gave us what we wanted. Had he stayed another year or two, he probably would have fallen back to the mediocrity since his recruiting stopped.

Spaz: Have never liked this shithead.

Homojs mentioned the vtech game in '05. I was lucky enough to have had a work event that night so I never had to watch it. The merrymen spent the week after it saying vtech was unbeatable. Miami 27 V-tech 7 the next game. Merrymen proven wrong as usual.

[JesuitIvy]

TOB -- Syracuse game that lost us the BCS slot (2004?)
Jags -- about half thru his second season. That team should have won more IMHO
Spaz: UCF. Just ridiculous.

[DavidGordonsFoot]

Jags -- about half thru his second season. That team should have won more IMHO

You thought the Crane-is-Able team underachieved?!?

[claver2010]

Jags -- about half thru his second season. That team should have won more IMHO

You thought the Crane-is-Able team underachieved?!?

Yes clearly a team that was playing with a 1st year QB (yes Crane is able was a SR but you don't get the experience of playing watching Matt Ryan do it) all year until he goes down and they need to put in another 1st year QB and only go to the ACC CG clearly underachieving!


Sidebar: I absolutely hate how people diminish the 2008 season. We went to the fucking ACC CG with an entire backfield on players who had never played meaningful college games in their life.

[DuchesneEast]

Jags -- about half thru his second season. That team should have won more IMHO

You thought the Crane-is-Able team underachieved?!?

Yes clearly a team that was playing with a 1st year QB (yes Crane is able was a SR but you don't get the experience of playing watching Matt Ryan do it) all year until he goes down and they need to put in another 1st year QB and only go to the ACC CG clearly underachieving!


Sidebar: I absolutely hate how people diminish the 2008 season. We went to the fucking ACC CG with an entire backfield on players who had never played meaningful college games in their life.

Some newer fans were spoiled.

[Fire Spaz]

Jags -- about half thru his second season. That team should have won more IMHO

You thought the Crane-is-Able team underachieved?!?

Yes clearly a team that was playing with a 1st year QB (yes Crane is able was a SR but you don't get the experience of playing watching Matt Ryan do it) all year until he goes down and they need to put in another 1st year QB and only go to the ACC CG clearly underachieving!


Sidebar: I absolutely hate how people diminish the 2008 season. We went to the fucking ACC CG with an entire backfield on players who had never played meaningful college games in their life.

Second Sidebar: I absolutely hate when people misremember the 2008 season and try to claim it had anything to do with the offense when in reality that team won in spite of the offense. With BJ Raja and Rob Bryce eating cheeseburgers in the opponents backfield on just about every play and Francois and Herzlich preventing anything behind them, the defense won that season. There was more than one game that year that the defense outscored the offense including the Dom Davis coming out party in Winston Salem where he gave Wake Forest two touchdowns while only scoring one for BC. Crane and Davis may have been fun headlines to discuss the quarterback controversy but the headline for that year was the defense.

[claver2010]

Second Sidebar: I absolutely hate when people misremember the 2008 season and try to claim it had anything to do with the offense when in reality that team won in spite of the offense. With BJ Raja and Rob Bryce eating cheeseburgers in the opponents backfield on just about every play and Francois and Herzlich preventing anything behind them, the defense won that season. There was more than one game that year that the defense outscored the offense including the Dom Davis coming out party in Winston Salem where he gave Wake Forest two touchdowns while only scoring one for BC. Crane and Davis may have been fun headlines to discuss the quarterback controversy but the headline for that year was the defense.

First, welcome to the board.

Second, of course the D was the reason we got to the CG. No where in my post did I say otherwise, but there were ACC games where the O carried their weight as well.

@ NCST 38-31 W
@ FSU 27-17 W (yes the D scored in that game, but the O had the ball for nearly 40 minutes)

[twballgame9]

Jags -- about half thru his second season. That team should have won more IMHO

You thought the Crane-is-Able team underachieved?!?

Yes clearly a team that was playing with a 1st year QB (yes Crane is able was a SR but you don't get the experience of playing watching Matt Ryan do it) all year until he goes down and they need to put in another 1st year QB and only go to the ACC CG clearly underachieving!


Sidebar: I absolutely hate how people diminish the 2008 season. We went to the fucking ACC CG with an entire backfield on players who had never played meaningful college games in their life.

Second Sidebar: I absolutely hate when people misremember the 2008 season and try to claim it had anything to do with the offense when in reality that team won in spite of the offense. With BJ Raja and Rob Bryce eating cheeseburgers in the opponents backfield on just about every play and Francois and Herzlich preventing anything behind them, the defense won that season. There was more than one game that year that the defense outscored the offense including the Dom Davis coming out party in Winston Salem where he gave Wake Forest two touchdowns while only scoring one for BC. Crane and Davis may have been fun headlines to discuss the quarterback controversy but the headline for that year was the defense.

Crane and Montel and the O-Line singlehandedly dominated the most important game on the schedule, FSU. Crane and Montel were dominating Wake when the injury happened. The spread was just starting to roll in pretty awesome fashion when Crane got hurt. Revisionist history, Paul Anderson and the defensive backs cost BC two wins that season.

[31southst]

Didn't we have some absurd streak of like 6 games in a row scoring a defensive TD in 2008?

[Fire Spaz]

Crane and Montel were dominating Wake when the injury happened.

Dominating a couple of drives that ended in field goals because Crane wasn't good enough to get it into the end zone.

To suggest that the success of that team wasn't 80-90% on the defense is the real revisionist history.

[nerd]

If somebody told me on September 6-7, 2008 that BC would end up returning to the ACC Championship game w/out Matt Ryan I would have asked to have seen their stash of crazy pills.

Of course the D had a huge role in that. But I don't know who can honestly say that BC underachieved that season.

[angrychicken]

Crane and Montel were dominating Wake when the injury happened.

Dominating a couple of drives that ended in field goals because Crane wasn't good enough to get it into the end zone.

To suggest that the success of that team wasn't 80-90% on the defense is the real revisionist history.

Defense won that game in spite of the offense.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=283270154

[innocentbystander]

Crane and Montel were dominating Wake when the injury happened.

Dominating a couple of drives that ended in field goals because Crane wasn't good enough to get it into the end zone.

To suggest that the success of that team wasn't 80-90% on the defense is the real revisionist history.

There was never a year in the entire history of BC football (unless you say 2006 when they were both two years younger) when BC had two defensive tackles anywhere even close to what they had in 2008. That was a once-in-a-century gig. Mike Ruth was great, but he was one. Chris Hovan was great, but again, just one. To have TWO!!!!!!

If we take all seven aspects of the 22 starting positions in football: QB, TB, OL, Recievers, DL, LB, & DB, and if you can only have one of those where your people will be the best people in the game at the level you play, pick defensive line (specifically defensive tackle.) That one position (if your people are the best at it) makes you an instant winner. That one position (if your people playing it are the best at it) makes everything else about the team, easier.

[DavidGordonsFoot]

If we take all seven aspects of the 22 starting positions in football: QB, TB, OL, Recievers, DL, LB, & DB, and if you can only have one of those where your people will be the best people in the game at the level you play, pick defensive line (specifically defensive tackle.) That one position (if your people are the best at it) makes you an instant winner. That one position makes everything else about the team, easier.

You need to talk about football less.

[eagle9903]

Jags -- about half thru his second season. That team should have won more IMHO

You thought the Crane-is-Able team underachieved?!?

Yes clearly a team that was playing with a 1st year QB (yes Crane is able was a SR but you don't get the experience of playing watching Matt Ryan do it) all year until he goes down and they need to put in another 1st year QB and only go to the ACC CG clearly underachieving!


Sidebar: I absolutely hate how people diminish the 2008 season. We went to the fucking ACC CG with an entire backfield on players who had never played meaningful college games in their life.

Second Sidebar: I absolutely hate when people misremember the 2008 season and try to claim it had anything to do with the offense when in reality that team won in spite of the offense. With BJ Raja and Rob Bryce eating cheeseburgers in the opponents backfield on just about every play and Francois and Herzlich preventing anything behind them, the defense won that season. There was more than one game that year that the defense outscored the offense including the Dom Davis coming out party in Winston Salem where he gave Wake Forest two touchdowns while only scoring one for BC. Crane and Davis may have been fun headlines to discuss the quarterback controversy but the headline for that year was the defense.

This is a shit/vomit choice, but the 2008 offense with Crane was much better than the 2010 or 2011 offenses fwiw, it was probably better than the 2009 offense as well. DD was horrendous. Crane showed flashes against NC State (who was terrible) and looked like he was turning into a productive player in the FSU game, or at least it looked as if Logan had found a way to use him, but he got hurt and we'll never know.

[Fire Spaz]

If memory serves me correctly the 2009, 2010 and 2011 teams didn't make it to the ACC Championship Game and are not touted as the reason that a former head coach was the bestest ever so I'm not sure what your point is of bringing up those years.

I was simply pointing out that the main reason for the success of the 2008 campaign was the defense not the magical mediocrity of Chris Crane and Dom Davis. I felt that the author above suggesting that was at best insincere and at worst full of crap.

[eagle9903]

If memory serves me correctly the 2009, 2010 and 2011 teams didn't make it to the ACC Championship Game and are not touted as the reason that a former head coach was the bestest ever so I'm not sure what your point is of bringing up those years.

I was simply pointing out that the main reason for the success of the 2008 campaign was the defense not the magical mediocrity of Chris Crane and Dom Davis. I felt that the author above suggesting that was at best insincere and at worst full of crap.

are you eaglegradcc?

[Fire Spaz]

If memory serves me correctly the 2009, 2010 and 2011 teams didn't make it to the ACC Championship Game and are not touted as the reason that a former head coach was the bestest ever so I'm not sure what your point is of bringing up those years.

I was simply pointing out that the main reason for the success of the 2008 campaign was the defense not the magical mediocrity of Chris Crane and Dom Davis. I felt that the author above suggesting that was at best insincere and at worst full of crap.

are you eaglegradcc?

That depends. Are you an 18 year old black high school football player that either lied or was lied about?

[eagle9903]

If memory serves me correctly the 2009, 2010 and 2011 teams didn't make it to the ACC Championship Game and are not touted as the reason that a former head coach was the bestest ever so I'm not sure what your point is of bringing up those years.

I was simply pointing out that the main reason for the success of the 2008 campaign was the defense not the magical mediocrity of Chris Crane and Dom Davis. I felt that the author above suggesting that was at best insincere and at worst full of crap.

Not referencing whatever you were responding to above, which I think you are exaggerating, the impressiveness of the 2008 offense is not that the results were great, they were not (relative to non-spaz results), but that the 2008 offensive roster was a shit sandwich of epic proportions so that even producing an offense which kept the awesome defense in games was an accomplishment making Jagodzinski (the ceo) much, much better than his predecessor or his successor. We had two freshman rbs, Crane who has never played a significant down and was godawful (until Logan figured out how to use his one plus attribute) and we had a true sophomore LT who started the season less than 270 lbs in Castanzo replacing a 1st round draft pick and Lapham playing on the other side. All of these problems were the result of TOB not recruiting various roster spots btw, thus differentiating the roster spaz inherited and then decimated by choice. Additionally, the Jags staff got great play from Claiborne, a player who Spaz immediately ruined.