New Coach

[commavegarage]

I assume the guy developed Mangold...don't know may other osu onlinemen who went pro and was a top pick during his era

[basselope]

I assume the guy developed Mangold...don't know may other osu onlinemen who went pro and was a top pick during his era

12 total - with 6 current and 6 past NFL OL

Current
Nick Mangold Jets
Justin Boren Ravens
Rob Sims Lions
Jim Cordle Giants
Alex Boone 49ers
Bryant Browning Rams

Past
LeCharles Bentley Saints
Adrien Clark Eagles
Shane Olivea Chargers
Alex Stepanovich Cards
Doug Datich Falcons
Kirk Barton Bears

[bigmoneysox]

http://www.bceagles.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/010612aaa.html

running game coordinator

Wha-?

What is this, I was OC at Ohio State, and if BC wants me to take over the disaster left by Devine and not give me Martin's power, then they have to make me a bullshit coordinator of some kind?

Martin calling a running play during a game, "Dive right."

running game coordinator, "VETO!, run up the middle"

Running game coordinator is just a made up title and an excuse to pay the guy more. I'm sure he didnt come very cheap. Coordinator status probably makes this job financially acceptable for a guy like him who has had big jobs at big places.

[joesim]

http://www.bceagles.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/010612aaa.html

running game coordinator

Wha-?

What is this, I was OC at Ohio State, and if BC wants me to take over the disaster left by Devine and not give me Martin's power, then they have to make me a bullshit coordinator of some kind?

Martin calling a running play during a game, "Dive right."

running game coordinator, "VETO!, run up the middle"

Running game coordinator is just a made up title and an excuse to pay the guy more. I'm sure he didnt come very cheap. Coordinator status probably makes this job financially acceptable for a guy like him who has had big jobs at big places.

so your saying BC may have went out and spent decent money on a coach. Woa

[joemack13]

Pfft... next thing I know you're going to tell me that we have coaches making more than resident hall-of-famers

[xu9697]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

[commavegarage]

Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better

This is what I was worried about.

[joemack13]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

Do you really think he's worse than Devine though? I'm worried you may be forgetting that mediocre coaching may be a big step up for us

[eagle9903]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

Do you really think he's worse than Devine though? I'm worried you may be forgetting that mediocre coaching may be a big step up for us

[hansen]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

Do you really think he's worse than Devine though? I'm worried you may be forgetting that mediocre coaching may be a big step up for us

If my rival intern has posted a picture of Chris Crane then i would have given him 4 points...

[eagle9903]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

Do you really think he's worse than Devine though? I'm worried you may be forgetting that mediocre coaching may be a big step up for us

If my rival intern has posted a picture of Chris Crane then i would have given him 4 points...

work with me Hansen. In the analogy Bollman = Davis; Devine = Crane.

[joemack13]

In my defense I was posing it as a question. I miss Chris Crane, that was the last season I enjoyed.

[EagleNYC]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

I have no personal information on this hire, and really can't refute anything you wrote, other than to take issue with an underlying premise. You write that he has not made any OL better, since OSU brings in 4 and 5 star OL recruits constantly. This past year (assuming they actually sign), we brought in a bumper crop of OL. We've done this in recent past, with mixed results. So while I can't comment upon whether this guy is a good coach, I disagree that you can just bring in a recruit and the cream will rise to the top. OL is a position where a recruit benefits significantly from instruction. There are many guys out there with size, strength, brains and quick feet. Technique and training are the big difference makers at this position. If coaching we're such a huge factor, BC would have some great luck getting all of these NFL players in the past 20 + years.

[xu9697]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

I have no personal information on this hire, and really can't refute anything you wrote, other than to take issue with an underlying premise. You write that he has not made any OL better, since OSU brings in 4 and 5 star OL recruits constantly. This past year (assuming they actually sign), we brought in a bumper crop of OL. We've done this in recent past, with mixed results. So while I can't comment upon whether this guy is a good coach, I disagree that you can just bring in a recruit and the cream will rise to the top. OL is a position where a recruit benefits significantly from instruction. There are many guys out there with size, strength, brains and quick feet. Technique and training are the big difference makers at this position. If coaching we're such a huge factor, BC would have some great luck getting all of these NFL players in the past 20 + years.

I actually agree with much of what you say. And, actually, I misspoke a bit. While they had a great OLine group a few years ago on paper (Brewster, Adams, Shugarts), the recruiting from an OSU PERSPECTIVE has been mediocre at best over the last couple years. Put it this way= OSU will be taking a TE and converting him to tackle next year because we are so thin there. Think BC's situation at QB a couple years ago.

Look, I am a FAN of both schools and football programs. I played some football (never OLine) and have family that has played as well. But I am no expert, especially when it comes to Oline play. He may end up being good here and/or better than Devine. What I can tell you is that NO COACH has been as ridiculed as Bollman over the last 3-4 years + at OSU as much as Bollman. In addition, though I cannot confirm, I believe some former players were calling Bollman out a lot this year. Granted, that included his job in playcalling as well..and it looks like he will at least be involved there.

[EagleNYC]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

I have no personal information on this hire, and really can't refute anything you wrote, other than to take issue with an underlying premise. You write that he has not made any OL better, since OSU brings in 4 and 5 star OL recruits constantly. This past year (assuming they actually sign), we brought in a bumper crop of OL. We've done this in recent past, with mixed results. So while I can't comment upon whether this guy is a good coach, I disagree that you can just bring in a recruit and the cream will rise to the top. OL is a position where a recruit benefits significantly from instruction. There are many guys out there with size, strength, brains and quick feet. Technique and training are the big difference makers at this position. If coaching we're such a huge factor, BC would have some great luck getting all of these NFL players in the past 20 + years.

I actually agree with much of what you say. And, actually, I misspoke a bit. While they had a great OLine group a few years ago on paper (Brewster, Adams, Shugarts), the recruiting from an OSU PERSPECTIVE has been mediocre at best over the last couple years. Put it this way= OSU will be taking a TE and converting him to tackle next year because we are so thin there. Think BC's situation at QB a couple years ago.

Look, I am a FAN of both schools and football programs. I played some football (never OLine) and have family that has played as well. But I am no expert, especially when it comes to Oline play. He may end up being good here and/or better than Devine. What I can tell you is that NO COACH has been as ridiculed as Bollman over the last 3-4 years + at OSU as much as Bollman. In addition, though I cannot confirm, I believe some former players were calling Bollman out a lot this year. Granted, that included his job in playcalling as well..and it looks like he will at least be involved there.

I have read the criticism about him, which seems legit. I'm hopeful that his limited role and outstanding OL position coach resume will be a significant improvement for BC. I know that I still wish Spaz was our DC, he was superb; but he isn't HC material.

[eagle9903]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

I have no personal information on this hire, and really can't refute anything you wrote, other than to take issue with an underlying premise. You write that he has not made any OL better, since OSU brings in 4 and 5 star OL recruits constantly. This past year (assuming they actually sign), we brought in a bumper crop of OL. We've done this in recent past, with mixed results. So while I can't comment upon whether this guy is a good coach, I disagree that you can just bring in a recruit and the cream will rise to the top. OL is a position where a recruit benefits significantly from instruction. There are many guys out there with size, strength, brains and quick feet. Technique and training are the big difference makers at this position. If coaching we're such a huge factor, BC would have some great luck getting all of these NFL players in the past 20 + years.

Devine was a bad OL coach, but I disagree he ever had a bumper crop of recruits to work with from recent BC standards if only due to the transition back from zone-blocking.

[Endless Mike]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

Do you really think he's worse than Devine though? I'm worried you may be forgetting that mediocre coaching may be a big step up for us

If my rival intern has posted a picture of Chris Crane then i would have given him 4 points...

work with me Hansen. In the analogy Bollman = Davis; Devine = Crane.

So you are saying Bollman is not a good coach because he spends too much time playing video games. Got it.

[eagle9903]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

Do you really think he's worse than Devine though? I'm worried you may be forgetting that mediocre coaching may be a big step up for us

If my rival intern has posted a picture of Chris Crane then i would have given him 4 points...

work with me Hansen. In the analogy Bollman = Davis; Devine = Crane.

So you are saying Bollman is not a good coach because he spends too much time playing video games. Got it.

Correct, and since I want to post the picture again, because he stole TOB's hat.

[EagleNYC]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

I have no personal information on this hire, and really can't refute anything you wrote, other than to take issue with an underlying premise. You write that he has not made any OL better, since OSU brings in 4 and 5 star OL recruits constantly. This past year (assuming they actually sign), we brought in a bumper crop of OL. We've done this in recent past, with mixed results. So while I can't comment upon whether this guy is a good coach, I disagree that you can just bring in a recruit and the cream will rise to the top. OL is a position where a recruit benefits significantly from instruction. There are many guys out there with size, strength, brains and quick feet. Technique and training are the big difference makers at this position. If coaching we're such a huge factor, BC would have some great luck getting all of these NFL players in the past 20 + years.

Devine was a bad OL coach, but I disagree he ever had a bumper crop of recruits to work with from recent BC standards if only due to the transition back from zone-blocking.

That's fair. I didn't intend my "recent past" line to be Devine-specific, more like the past 8-10 years. We'd had some highly regarded flame outs.

[eagle9903]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

I have no personal information on this hire, and really can't refute anything you wrote, other than to take issue with an underlying premise. You write that he has not made any OL better, since OSU brings in 4 and 5 star OL recruits constantly. This past year (assuming they actually sign), we brought in a bumper crop of OL. We've done this in recent past, with mixed results. So while I can't comment upon whether this guy is a good coach, I disagree that you can just bring in a recruit and the cream will rise to the top. OL is a position where a recruit benefits significantly from instruction. There are many guys out there with size, strength, brains and quick feet. Technique and training are the big difference makers at this position. If coaching we're such a huge factor, BC would have some great luck getting all of these NFL players in the past 20 + years.

Devine was a bad OL coach, but I disagree he ever had a bumper crop of recruits to work with from recent BC standards if only due to the transition back from zone-blocking.

That's fair. I didn't intend my "recent past" line to be Devine-specific, more like the past 8-10 years. We'd had some highly regarded flame outs.

Yeah, our recent history with highly rated offensive line recruits is poor(albeit mainly injury related). Notably Elliot, Goodman, Sheil.

[innocentbystander]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

I have no personal information on this hire, and really can't refute anything you wrote, other than to take issue with an underlying premise. You write that he has not made any OL better, since OSU brings in 4 and 5 star OL recruits constantly. This past year (assuming they actually sign), we brought in a bumper crop of OL. We've done this in recent past, with mixed results. So while I can't comment upon whether this guy is a good coach, I disagree that you can just bring in a recruit and the cream will rise to the top. OL is a position where a recruit benefits significantly from instruction. There are many guys out there with size, strength, brains and quick feet. Technique and training are the big difference makers at this position. If coaching we're such a huge factor, BC would have some great luck getting all of these NFL players in the past 20 + years.

Devine was a bad OL coach, but I disagree he ever had a bumper crop of recruits to work with from recent BC standards if only due to the transition back from zone-blocking.

That's fair. I didn't intend my "recent past" line to be Devine-specific, more like the past 8-10 years. We'd had some highly regarded flame outs.

Yeah, our recent history with highly rated offensive line recruits is poor(albeit mainly injury related). Notably Elliot, Goodman, Sheil.

Elliot, Goodman, Sheil...

I think it is real hard sometimes for recruiters (not just BC, but all college recruiters) to figure out if a high school offensive lineman is totally dominating their opponents in high school because of an advantage in size and physical power OR superior athletic ability. If they did what they did simply because they were so much bigger than every 15, 16, and 17 year old defensive tackle/nose guard they lined up against, then maybe they will have the same tremendous success in college against much bigger and much faster defensive linemen. That was the case for Damien Woody, Dan Koppen, Chris Snee, and (with a little bit of personal experience here since he kicked my ass at Players Edge football camp) Tom Nalen. These were big kids who were great and stayed great. Sometimes, it doesn't work that way. I think that is what we might have with Elliot, Goodman, and Sheil. They couldn't turn their corner because their size/power advantage was mitigated by the fact that they were either trying to pass block super speed athletic defensive ends, OR, they were trying to drive block on 280+ pound defensive tackles and they couldn't over power them.

If, however, they did what they did because they were such better athletes on the line (so much quicker and more athletic than ordinary linemen), then that is something different, something a good line coach can use and turn that player into a outstanding college offensive linemen, provided they are tall enough. Two such athletic O-linemen cases stick out like a sore thumb for BC: Pete Kendall and Anthony Costanzo. Pete Kendall's Senior year at Arch Bishop Williams High School in Braintree MA, he was 6'5" 195 pounds (yes ONE-ninety-five.) That is way light for an offensive tackle, but he was kicking everyone's ass and Archie's was doing well. His outstanding performance in high school could only be attributed to his better athletic ability (he was out-athleting the slow, tubby, defensive tackles.) So he red-shirted, put on some weight to go with his height, and because he was already an athlete, he did very well in college as an offensive linemen. Same goes for Costanzo. When Jags got him, he showed up on campus @ 230 pounds. But he was a superior linemen due to his athleticism. So they rushed him and packed the weight on, got him up to 260 pounds for Matty Ice's Senior year. Costanzo sucked a little bit as right tackle (true freshman, what do you expect) but by the time he was a Junior, he was one of the best in the nation.

[basselope]

I have met Bollman, have seen him coach for 11 plus years, have seen how he recruits with Bobby & other HS kids, & I have spoken with couple of local players that played for him at OSU...

FWIW: I am happy as hell that he decided to join BC.

[eagle9903]

I have met Bollman

next time you see him tell him to give TOB his hat back or he will get a sunburn.

[DavidGordonsFoot]

Since I am a BC and OSU fan for going on 30 years, I will comment:

This is a terrible hire from a football perspective. OSU fans have wanted him out for at least the last 3-4 years. He fits in perfectly with this staff b/c he is old and has pretty much given up on recruiting. Yeah, OSU has 4-5 star lineman...you or I could recruit to OSU and get those players. This coach has not made anyone better.

Since we want the kids to succeed, this sucks. Since almost all of us want Spaz/GDF out of here...this is a great hire for that purpose!

have you ever been to frickers?

[HJS]

I think it is real hard sometimes for recruiters (not just BC, but all college recruiters) to figure out if a high school offensive lineman is totally dominating their opponents in high school because of an advantage in size and physical power OR superior athletic ability. If they did what they did simply because they were so much bigger than every 15, 16, and 17 year old defensive tackle/nose guard they lined up against, then maybe they will have the same tremendous success in college against much bigger and much faster defensive linemen. That was the case for Damien Woody, Dan Koppen, Chris Snee, and (with a little bit of personal experience here since he kicked my ass at Players Edge football camp) Tom Nalen.

If, however, they did what they did because they were such better athletes on the line (so much quicker and more athletic than ordinary linemen), then that is something different, something a good line coach can use and turn that player into a outstanding college offensive linemen, provided they are tall enough. Two such athletic O-linemen cases stick out like a sore thumb for BC: Pete Kendall and Anthony Costanzo. Pete Kendall's Senior year at Arch Bishop Williams High School in Braintree MA, he was 6'5" 195 pounds (yes ONE-ninety-five.) That is way light for an offensive tackle, but he was kicking everyone's ass and Archie's was doing well. His outstanding performance in high school could only be attributed to his better athletic ability (he was out-athleting the slow, tubby, defensive tackles.) So he red-shirted, put on some weight to go with his height, and because he was already an athlete, he did very well in college as an offensive linemen. Same goes for Costanzo. When Jags got him, he showed up on campus @ 230 pounds. But he was a superior linemen due to his athleticism. So they rushed him and packed the weight on, got him up to 260 pounds for Matty Ice's Senior year. Costanzo sucked a little bit as right tackle (true freshman, what do you expect) but by the time he was a Junior, he was one of the best in the nation.

I won't let myself get into some nonsensical IB debate. I will just point out that your statements regarding the specific players used as examples are way the eff off. For instance, I knew Pete since freshman year and at no point was he under 200 lbs. You are likely getting him confused with Mamula who was around 190 freshman year. Kendall was big enough that he had an offer from most major universities... including ND (which was still flying high under Holtz). Coughlin poached Mamula from UNH just to fill out the class.

[2001Eagle]

I think it is real hard sometimes for recruiters (not just BC, but all college recruiters) to figure out if a high school offensive lineman is totally dominating their opponents in high school because of an advantage in size and physical power OR superior athletic ability. If they did what they did simply because they were so much bigger than every 15, 16, and 17 year old defensive tackle/nose guard they lined up against, then maybe they will have the same tremendous success in college against much bigger and much faster defensive linemen. That was the case for Damien Woody, Dan Koppen, Chris Snee, and (with a little bit of personal experience here since he kicked my ass at Players Edge football camp) Tom Nalen.

If, however, they did what they did because they were such better athletes on the line (so much quicker and more athletic than ordinary linemen), then that is something different, something a good line coach can use and turn that player into a outstanding college offensive linemen, provided they are tall enough. Two such athletic O-linemen cases stick out like a sore thumb for BC: Pete Kendall and Anthony Costanzo. Pete Kendall's Senior year at Arch Bishop Williams High School in Braintree MA, he was 6'5" 195 pounds (yes ONE-ninety-five.) That is way light for an offensive tackle, but he was kicking everyone's ass and Archie's was doing well. His outstanding performance in high school could only be attributed to his better athletic ability (he was out-athleting the slow, tubby, defensive tackles.) So he red-shirted, put on some weight to go with his height, and because he was already an athlete, he did very well in college as an offensive linemen. Same goes for Costanzo. When Jags got him, he showed up on campus @ 230 pounds. But he was a superior linemen due to his athleticism. So they rushed him and packed the weight on, got him up to 260 pounds for Matty Ice's Senior year. Costanzo sucked a little bit as right tackle (true freshman, what do you expect) but by the time he was a Junior, he was one of the best in the nation.

I won't let myself get into some nonsensical IB debate. I will just point out that your statements regarding the specific players used as examples are way the eff off. For instance, I knew Pete since freshman year and at no point was he under 200 lbs. You are likely getting him confused with Mamula who was around 190 freshman year. Kendall was big enough that he had an offer from most major universities... including ND (which was still flying high under Holtz). Coughlin poached Mamula from UNH just to fill out the class.

Additionally, wasn't Snee underrecruited because he was on the smaller size? I think I remember that being the case, but I may be wrong.

[innocentbystander]

I think it is real hard sometimes for recruiters (not just BC, but all college recruiters) to figure out if a high school offensive lineman is totally dominating their opponents in high school because of an advantage in size and physical power OR superior athletic ability. If they did what they did simply because they were so much bigger than every 15, 16, and 17 year old defensive tackle/nose guard they lined up against, then maybe they will have the same tremendous success in college against much bigger and much faster defensive linemen. That was the case for Damien Woody, Dan Koppen, Chris Snee, and (with a little bit of personal experience here since he kicked my ass at Players Edge football camp) Tom Nalen.

If, however, they did what they did because they were such better athletes on the line (so much quicker and more athletic than ordinary linemen), then that is something different, something a good line coach can use and turn that player into a outstanding college offensive linemen, provided they are tall enough. Two such athletic O-linemen cases stick out like a sore thumb for BC: Pete Kendall and Anthony Costanzo. Pete Kendall's Senior year at Arch Bishop Williams High School in Braintree MA, he was 6'5" 195 pounds (yes ONE-ninety-five.) That is way light for an offensive tackle, but he was kicking everyone's ass and Archie's was doing well. His outstanding performance in high school could only be attributed to his better athletic ability (he was out-athleting the slow, tubby, defensive tackles.) So he red-shirted, put on some weight to go with his height, and because he was already an athlete, he did very well in college as an offensive linemen. Same goes for Costanzo. When Jags got him, he showed up on campus @ 230 pounds. But he was a superior linemen due to his athleticism. So they rushed him and packed the weight on, got him up to 260 pounds for Matty Ice's Senior year. Costanzo sucked a little bit as right tackle (true freshman, what do you expect) but by the time he was a Junior, he was one of the best in the nation.

I won't let myself get into some nonsensical IB debate. I will just point out that your statements regarding the specific players used as examples are way the eff off. For instance, I knew Pete since freshman year and at no point was he under 200 lbs. You are likely getting him confused with Mamula who was around 190 freshman year. Kendall was big enough that he had an offer from most major universities... including ND (which was still flying high under Holtz). Coughlin poached Mamula from UNH just to fill out the class.

I am not getting anyone confused. You are the one who is confused.

Pete Kendall was tall and lanky in High School, 6' 5", weighed 195 pounds at Archies. He was the #2 high school recruit in the State of Massachusetts his Senior year, (#2 behind Whitman-Hanson's QB, O'Brien.) By the time you met him, I'm sure he was just up over 200 pounds.

He red shirted in 1991 specifically to bulk up, was much too light to play offense line. By the time he was a 5th-year-Senior, he was up near 290 pounds.

[HJS]

I think it is real hard sometimes for recruiters (not just BC, but all college recruiters) to figure out if a high school offensive lineman is totally dominating their opponents in high school because of an advantage in size and physical power OR superior athletic ability. If they did what they did simply because they were so much bigger than every 15, 16, and 17 year old defensive tackle/nose guard they lined up against, then maybe they will have the same tremendous success in college against much bigger and much faster defensive linemen. That was the case for Damien Woody, Dan Koppen, Chris Snee, and (with a little bit of personal experience here since he kicked my ass at Players Edge football camp) Tom Nalen.

If, however, they did what they did because they were such better athletes on the line (so much quicker and more athletic than ordinary linemen), then that is something different, something a good line coach can use and turn that player into a outstanding college offensive linemen, provided they are tall enough. Two such athletic O-linemen cases stick out like a sore thumb for BC: Pete Kendall and Anthony Costanzo. Pete Kendall's Senior year at Arch Bishop Williams High School in Braintree MA, he was 6'5" 195 pounds (yes ONE-ninety-five.) That is way light for an offensive tackle, but he was kicking everyone's ass and Archie's was doing well. His outstanding performance in high school could only be attributed to his better athletic ability (he was out-athleting the slow, tubby, defensive tackles.) So he red-shirted, put on some weight to go with his height, and because he was already an athlete, he did very well in college as an offensive linemen. Same goes for Costanzo. When Jags got him, he showed up on campus @ 230 pounds. But he was a superior linemen due to his athleticism. So they rushed him and packed the weight on, got him up to 260 pounds for Matty Ice's Senior year. Costanzo sucked a little bit as right tackle (true freshman, what do you expect) but by the time he was a Junior, he was one of the best in the nation.

I won't let myself get into some nonsensical IB debate. I will just point out that your statements regarding the specific players used as examples are way the eff off. For instance, I knew Pete since freshman year and at no point was he under 200 lbs. You are likely getting him confused with Mamula who was around 190 freshman year. Kendall was big enough that he had an offer from most major universities... including ND (which was still flying high under Holtz). Coughlin poached Mamula from UNH just to fill out the class.

Additionally, wasn't Snee underrecruited because he was on the smaller size? I think I remember that being the case, but I may be wrong.

You are correct. Also played for a small school coming out of PA. He was a 2-star as a result of both. And... with all due respect... to IB's glory days, just because Nalen mopped the field with IB doesn't mean he was massive in HS. I personally find it hard to believe that a kid who was lightly recruited and was drafted in the 7th round of the NFL Draft because he was too small.

[innocentbystander]

I think it is real hard sometimes for recruiters (not just BC, but all college recruiters) to figure out if a high school offensive lineman is totally dominating their opponents in high school because of an advantage in size and physical power OR superior athletic ability. If they did what they did simply because they were so much bigger than every 15, 16, and 17 year old defensive tackle/nose guard they lined up against, then maybe they will have the same tremendous success in college against much bigger and much faster defensive linemen. That was the case for Damien Woody, Dan Koppen, Chris Snee, and (with a little bit of personal experience here since he kicked my ass at Players Edge football camp) Tom Nalen.

If, however, they did what they did because they were such better athletes on the line (so much quicker and more athletic than ordinary linemen), then that is something different, something a good line coach can use and turn that player into a outstanding college offensive linemen, provided they are tall enough. Two such athletic O-linemen cases stick out like a sore thumb for BC: Pete Kendall and Anthony Costanzo. Pete Kendall's Senior year at Arch Bishop Williams High School in Braintree MA, he was 6'5" 195 pounds (yes ONE-ninety-five.) That is way light for an offensive tackle, but he was kicking everyone's ass and Archie's was doing well. His outstanding performance in high school could only be attributed to his better athletic ability (he was out-athleting the slow, tubby, defensive tackles.) So he red-shirted, put on some weight to go with his height, and because he was already an athlete, he did very well in college as an offensive linemen. Same goes for Costanzo. When Jags got him, he showed up on campus @ 230 pounds. But he was a superior linemen due to his athleticism. So they rushed him and packed the weight on, got him up to 260 pounds for Matty Ice's Senior year. Costanzo sucked a little bit as right tackle (true freshman, what do you expect) but by the time he was a Junior, he was one of the best in the nation.

I won't let myself get into some nonsensical IB debate. I will just point out that your statements regarding the specific players used as examples are way the eff off. For instance, I knew Pete since freshman year and at no point was he under 200 lbs. You are likely getting him confused with Mamula who was around 190 freshman year. Kendall was big enough that he had an offer from most major universities... including ND (which was still flying high under Holtz). Coughlin poached Mamula from UNH just to fill out the class.

Additionally, wasn't Snee underrecruited because he was on the smaller size? I think I remember that being the case, but I may be wrong.

You are correct. Also played for a small school coming out of PA. He was a 2-star as a result of both. And... with all due respect... to IB's glory days, just because Nalen mopped the field with IB doesn't mean he was massive in HS. I personally find it hard to believe that a kid who was lightly recruited and was drafted in the 7th round of the NFL Draft because he was too small.

Generally speaking, the majority of BC's players are under-recruited. Snee was no different. That was because he wasn't as tall as most of the BCS level schools wanted in offensive linemen. (They can coach technique. They can't coach height.)

That said, Tom Nalen totally fucking kicked my ass up and down the field. I hit him as hard as possibly could, didn't matter. He was much too big, much too quick, much too strong. I tried to bull rush him on passing plays, never got within an arm's reach of the quarterback. Best offensive linemen I ever saw in my "glory days."

I think Foxborough HS went to the div 3 Super Bowl his Senior year, but I don't remember exactly. For offensive linemen in the NFL, of course he was smallish, but Denver's O-line (the smallest line in the NFL the years Elway was in his mid-30s) was still a damn good line.

[Endless Mike]

Spaz is going to have a passing coordinator and a running coordinator. He'll hand each one the towel before each play depending on what the offense is going to do. It's going to be a great innovative offense!