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Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:36 am
by eagle9903
twballgame9 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
innocentbystander wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
31southst wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:"It's the nature of the beast these days the way [coaches] change schools. [Addazio] basically said you can go up to BC and play, but at some point this offense is going to go in another direction. What Tim is looking at is, 'Hey, I go up there and do the job and I'm playing for two years and all of a sudden he's got all the people he needs to run his offense and I'm sitting on the bench.'"


That is effing atrocious. I'm ready to fire his ass. So no matter how well you do, I am not going to utilize your skill, even if you are the next Dan Marino.

Screw this shit, Addazio is a clown.


Yeah that jumped out at me too. Is he seriously saying that if Boyle comes to BC and wins the job for 2014 (certainly possible), he'll bench him for a dual threat guy in the future regardless of how Boyle is playing? That is the height of stupidity/stubbornness if right. If Boyle is good enough for Oregon's system, there's literally zero reason Daz shouldn't be able to bend his system to fit him.

Also, stupid roster management aside, it sounds like we're in for some pretty boring/uncreative football for the next few years. I'm all for running but it sounds like Daz still hasn't gotten on board with this whole notion of a forward pass.


Are we saying he should 1) cater his offense to a recruit for four years? or are we saying 2) he should be less clear to the recruit about what his offensive philosophy is?


As a coach at Boston College, you do NOT have the recruiting clout to select the BEST players in the country that you know will fit perfectly into the offensive and defensive systems that exist in your comfort zone. You don't. So your goal should be even simpler, recruit the absolute BEST players that are available REGARDLESS of whether or not you think they fit in your system.

When you get those best players, you adjust your system to maximize their strengths. Get out of your coaching comfort zone and accomadate your player's comfort zone in an effort to increase your chances of winning the fucking game. That is what a good coach at BC would do. If what Boyle is saying is true, it appears we might not have that in Daz. I'm not the least bit surprised about that, since the BOT didn't provide Brad Bates enough money to pay for a real coach who has the capacity to understand that you do whatever it takes to win. We are still stuck in the "..nice guy who likes his players..." crap.


Nospace oversimplifies pretty much everything to the point where it no longer is logical. But this is right on.


It is pretty much the usual level of oversimplification. It may be right, but it's still taking a conclusion (addazio sucks) and throwing a bunch of semi connecting middle steps to get there. Since I don't like the hire and I don't want a spread at all, I tend to reach the same conclusion, but the reasoning is still horrible.



I didn't like the hire, but I thought and have been vocal that I thought he could get BC back to TOB levels. So I am most certainly not working backwards from a conclusion that I just formed. The quote from the coach makes it pretty damn clear that Addazio is discouraging pocket passers from coming to the school that has developed so many of them in the past 20 years. That wouldn't bother me whatsover if he remotely came close to landing a recruit of Boyle's caliber that was a dual threat prior to making that call. But he hasn't.

My problem isn't with the system, but the reluctant stubbornness to stick to it before you have shown a modicum of ability to recruit the players for it.


I didn't say you, I said nospace.

I don't like what has happened with the worst recruiting class ever, but I think its worth pointing out that people are used to and comfortable with establishing the all blame on HC narrative (and it was dead on for the last 4 years) and that it makes for some interesting conclusion jumping a lot of which will prove true if Addazio is as bad as the board thinks he is. I'd prefer there was a way to keep Boyle and see what he is. I know nothing of this Walsh guy, other than the lack of BCS offers, but I agree that's enough to make it a bad trade all else equal.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:00 pm
by innocentbystander
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
innocentbystander wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
31southst wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:"It's the nature of the beast these days the way [coaches] change schools. [Addazio] basically said you can go up to BC and play, but at some point this offense is going to go in another direction. What Tim is looking at is, 'Hey, I go up there and do the job and I'm playing for two years and all of a sudden he's got all the people he needs to run his offense and I'm sitting on the bench.'"


That is effing atrocious. I'm ready to fire his ass. So no matter how well you do, I am not going to utilize your skill, even if you are the next Dan Marino.

Screw this shit, Addazio is a clown.


Yeah that jumped out at me too. Is he seriously saying that if Boyle comes to BC and wins the job for 2014 (certainly possible), he'll bench him for a dual threat guy in the future regardless of how Boyle is playing? That is the height of stupidity/stubbornness if right. If Boyle is good enough for Oregon's system, there's literally zero reason Daz shouldn't be able to bend his system to fit him.

Also, stupid roster management aside, it sounds like we're in for some pretty boring/uncreative football for the next few years. I'm all for running but it sounds like Daz still hasn't gotten on board with this whole notion of a forward pass.


Are we saying he should 1) cater his offense to a recruit for four years? or are we saying 2) he should be less clear to the recruit about what his offensive philosophy is?


As a coach at Boston College, you do NOT have the recruiting clout to select the BEST players in the country that you know will fit perfectly into the offensive and defensive systems that exist in your comfort zone. You don't. So your goal should be even simpler, recruit the absolute BEST players that are available REGARDLESS of whether or not you think they fit in your system.

When you get those best players, you adjust your system to maximize their strengths. Get out of your coaching comfort zone and accomadate your player's comfort zone in an effort to increase your chances of winning the fucking game. That is what a good coach at BC would do. If what Boyle is saying is true, it appears we might not have that in Daz. I'm not the least bit surprised about that, since the BOT didn't provide Brad Bates enough money to pay for a real coach who has the capacity to understand that you do whatever it takes to win. We are still stuck in the "..nice guy who likes his players..." crap.


Nospace oversimplifies pretty much everything to the point where it no longer is logical. But this is right on.


It is pretty much the usual level of oversimplification. It may be right, but it's still taking a conclusion (addazio sucks) and throwing a bunch of semi connecting middle steps to get there. Since I don't like the hire and I don't want a spread at all, I tend to reach the same conclusion, but the reasoning is still horrible.



I didn't like the hire, but I thought and have been vocal that I thought he could get BC back to TOB levels. So I am most certainly not working backwards from a conclusion that I just formed. The quote from the coach makes it pretty damn clear that Addazio is discouraging pocket passers from coming to the school that has developed so many of them in the past 20 years. That wouldn't bother me whatsover if he remotely came close to landing a recruit of Boyle's caliber that was a dual threat prior to making that call. But he hasn't.

My problem isn't with the system, but the reluctant stubbornness to stick to it before you have shown a modicum of ability to recruit the players for it.


I didn't say you, I said nospace.

I don't like what has happened with the worst recruiting class ever, but I think its worth pointing out that people are used to and comfortable with establishing the all blame on HC narrative (and it was dead on for the last 4 years) and that it makes for some interesting conclusion jumping a lot of which will prove true if Addazio is as bad as the board thinks he is. I'd prefer there was a way to keep Boyle and see what he is. I know nothing of this Walsh guy, other than the lack of BCS offers, but I agree that's enough to make it a bad trade all else equal.


Has Boyle officially welched on his "verbal" to BC yet? Don't we still technically have him?

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:05 pm
by eagle9903
innocentbystander wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
innocentbystander wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
31southst wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:"It's the nature of the beast these days the way [coaches] change schools. [Addazio] basically said you can go up to BC and play, but at some point this offense is going to go in another direction. What Tim is looking at is, 'Hey, I go up there and do the job and I'm playing for two years and all of a sudden he's got all the people he needs to run his offense and I'm sitting on the bench.'"


That is effing atrocious. I'm ready to fire his ass. So no matter how well you do, I am not going to utilize your skill, even if you are the next Dan Marino.

Screw this shit, Addazio is a clown.


Yeah that jumped out at me too. Is he seriously saying that if Boyle comes to BC and wins the job for 2014 (certainly possible), he'll bench him for a dual threat guy in the future regardless of how Boyle is playing? That is the height of stupidity/stubbornness if right. If Boyle is good enough for Oregon's system, there's literally zero reason Daz shouldn't be able to bend his system to fit him.

Also, stupid roster management aside, it sounds like we're in for some pretty boring/uncreative football for the next few years. I'm all for running but it sounds like Daz still hasn't gotten on board with this whole notion of a forward pass.


Are we saying he should 1) cater his offense to a recruit for four years? or are we saying 2) he should be less clear to the recruit about what his offensive philosophy is?


As a coach at Boston College, you do NOT have the recruiting clout to select the BEST players in the country that you know will fit perfectly into the offensive and defensive systems that exist in your comfort zone. You don't. So your goal should be even simpler, recruit the absolute BEST players that are available REGARDLESS of whether or not you think they fit in your system.

When you get those best players, you adjust your system to maximize their strengths. Get out of your coaching comfort zone and accomadate your player's comfort zone in an effort to increase your chances of winning the fucking game. That is what a good coach at BC would do. If what Boyle is saying is true, it appears we might not have that in Daz. I'm not the least bit surprised about that, since the BOT didn't provide Brad Bates enough money to pay for a real coach who has the capacity to understand that you do whatever it takes to win. We are still stuck in the "..nice guy who likes his players..." crap.


Nospace oversimplifies pretty much everything to the point where it no longer is logical. But this is right on.


It is pretty much the usual level of oversimplification. It may be right, but it's still taking a conclusion (addazio sucks) and throwing a bunch of semi connecting middle steps to get there. Since I don't like the hire and I don't want a spread at all, I tend to reach the same conclusion, but the reasoning is still horrible.



I didn't like the hire, but I thought and have been vocal that I thought he could get BC back to TOB levels. So I am most certainly not working backwards from a conclusion that I just formed. The quote from the coach makes it pretty damn clear that Addazio is discouraging pocket passers from coming to the school that has developed so many of them in the past 20 years. That wouldn't bother me whatsover if he remotely came close to landing a recruit of Boyle's caliber that was a dual threat prior to making that call. But he hasn't.

My problem isn't with the system, but the reluctant stubbornness to stick to it before you have shown a modicum of ability to recruit the players for it.


I didn't say you, I said nospace.

I don't like what has happened with the worst recruiting class ever, but I think its worth pointing out that people are used to and comfortable with establishing the all blame on HC narrative (and it was dead on for the last 4 years) and that it makes for some interesting conclusion jumping a lot of which will prove true if Addazio is as bad as the board thinks he is. I'd prefer there was a way to keep Boyle and see what he is. I know nothing of this Walsh guy, other than the lack of BCS offers, but I agree that's enough to make it a bad trade all else equal.


Has Boyle officially welched on his "verbal" to BC yet? Don't we still technically have him?


yes, he is down to BC and UConn. I would imagine we will lose him to UConn.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:07 pm
by innocentbystander
eagle9903 wrote:
innocentbystander wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
innocentbystander wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
31southst wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:"It's the nature of the beast these days the way [coaches] change schools. [Addazio] basically said you can go up to BC and play, but at some point this offense is going to go in another direction. What Tim is looking at is, 'Hey, I go up there and do the job and I'm playing for two years and all of a sudden he's got all the people he needs to run his offense and I'm sitting on the bench.'"


That is effing atrocious. I'm ready to fire his ass. So no matter how well you do, I am not going to utilize your skill, even if you are the next Dan Marino.

Screw this shit, Addazio is a clown.


Yeah that jumped out at me too. Is he seriously saying that if Boyle comes to BC and wins the job for 2014 (certainly possible), he'll bench him for a dual threat guy in the future regardless of how Boyle is playing? That is the height of stupidity/stubbornness if right. If Boyle is good enough for Oregon's system, there's literally zero reason Daz shouldn't be able to bend his system to fit him.

Also, stupid roster management aside, it sounds like we're in for some pretty boring/uncreative football for the next few years. I'm all for running but it sounds like Daz still hasn't gotten on board with this whole notion of a forward pass.


Are we saying he should 1) cater his offense to a recruit for four years? or are we saying 2) he should be less clear to the recruit about what his offensive philosophy is?


As a coach at Boston College, you do NOT have the recruiting clout to select the BEST players in the country that you know will fit perfectly into the offensive and defensive systems that exist in your comfort zone. You don't. So your goal should be even simpler, recruit the absolute BEST players that are available REGARDLESS of whether or not you think they fit in your system.

When you get those best players, you adjust your system to maximize their strengths. Get out of your coaching comfort zone and accomadate your player's comfort zone in an effort to increase your chances of winning the fucking game. That is what a good coach at BC would do. If what Boyle is saying is true, it appears we might not have that in Daz. I'm not the least bit surprised about that, since the BOT didn't provide Brad Bates enough money to pay for a real coach who has the capacity to understand that you do whatever it takes to win. We are still stuck in the "..nice guy who likes his players..." crap.


Nospace oversimplifies pretty much everything to the point where it no longer is logical. But this is right on.


It is pretty much the usual level of oversimplification. It may be right, but it's still taking a conclusion (addazio sucks) and throwing a bunch of semi connecting middle steps to get there. Since I don't like the hire and I don't want a spread at all, I tend to reach the same conclusion, but the reasoning is still horrible.



I didn't like the hire, but I thought and have been vocal that I thought he could get BC back to TOB levels. So I am most certainly not working backwards from a conclusion that I just formed. The quote from the coach makes it pretty damn clear that Addazio is discouraging pocket passers from coming to the school that has developed so many of them in the past 20 years. That wouldn't bother me whatsover if he remotely came close to landing a recruit of Boyle's caliber that was a dual threat prior to making that call. But he hasn't.

My problem isn't with the system, but the reluctant stubbornness to stick to it before you have shown a modicum of ability to recruit the players for it.


I didn't say you, I said nospace.

I don't like what has happened with the worst recruiting class ever, but I think its worth pointing out that people are used to and comfortable with establishing the all blame on HC narrative (and it was dead on for the last 4 years) and that it makes for some interesting conclusion jumping a lot of which will prove true if Addazio is as bad as the board thinks he is. I'd prefer there was a way to keep Boyle and see what he is. I know nothing of this Walsh guy, other than the lack of BCS offers, but I agree that's enough to make it a bad trade all else equal.


Has Boyle officially welched on his "verbal" to BC yet? Don't we still technically have him?


yes, he is down to BC and UConn. I would imagine we will lose him to UConn.


that would really suck. bad

We could have 4 years with Boyle. I think Brad needs to step in here and fix this right now

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:10 pm
by eagle9903
innocentbystander wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
innocentbystander wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
innocentbystander wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:
31southst wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:"It's the nature of the beast these days the way [coaches] change schools. [Addazio] basically said you can go up to BC and play, but at some point this offense is going to go in another direction. What Tim is looking at is, 'Hey, I go up there and do the job and I'm playing for two years and all of a sudden he's got all the people he needs to run his offense and I'm sitting on the bench.'"


That is effing atrocious. I'm ready to fire his ass. So no matter how well you do, I am not going to utilize your skill, even if you are the next Dan Marino.

Screw this shit, Addazio is a clown.


Yeah that jumped out at me too. Is he seriously saying that if Boyle comes to BC and wins the job for 2014 (certainly possible), he'll bench him for a dual threat guy in the future regardless of how Boyle is playing? That is the height of stupidity/stubbornness if right. If Boyle is good enough for Oregon's system, there's literally zero reason Daz shouldn't be able to bend his system to fit him.

Also, stupid roster management aside, it sounds like we're in for some pretty boring/uncreative football for the next few years. I'm all for running but it sounds like Daz still hasn't gotten on board with this whole notion of a forward pass.


Are we saying he should 1) cater his offense to a recruit for four years? or are we saying 2) he should be less clear to the recruit about what his offensive philosophy is?


As a coach at Boston College, you do NOT have the recruiting clout to select the BEST players in the country that you know will fit perfectly into the offensive and defensive systems that exist in your comfort zone. You don't. So your goal should be even simpler, recruit the absolute BEST players that are available REGARDLESS of whether or not you think they fit in your system.

When you get those best players, you adjust your system to maximize their strengths. Get out of your coaching comfort zone and accomadate your player's comfort zone in an effort to increase your chances of winning the fucking game. That is what a good coach at BC would do. If what Boyle is saying is true, it appears we might not have that in Daz. I'm not the least bit surprised about that, since the BOT didn't provide Brad Bates enough money to pay for a real coach who has the capacity to understand that you do whatever it takes to win. We are still stuck in the "..nice guy who likes his players..." crap.


Nospace oversimplifies pretty much everything to the point where it no longer is logical. But this is right on.


It is pretty much the usual level of oversimplification. It may be right, but it's still taking a conclusion (addazio sucks) and throwing a bunch of semi connecting middle steps to get there. Since I don't like the hire and I don't want a spread at all, I tend to reach the same conclusion, but the reasoning is still horrible.



I didn't like the hire, but I thought and have been vocal that I thought he could get BC back to TOB levels. So I am most certainly not working backwards from a conclusion that I just formed. The quote from the coach makes it pretty damn clear that Addazio is discouraging pocket passers from coming to the school that has developed so many of them in the past 20 years. That wouldn't bother me whatsover if he remotely came close to landing a recruit of Boyle's caliber that was a dual threat prior to making that call. But he hasn't.

My problem isn't with the system, but the reluctant stubbornness to stick to it before you have shown a modicum of ability to recruit the players for it.


I didn't say you, I said nospace.

I don't like what has happened with the worst recruiting class ever, but I think its worth pointing out that people are used to and comfortable with establishing the all blame on HC narrative (and it was dead on for the last 4 years) and that it makes for some interesting conclusion jumping a lot of which will prove true if Addazio is as bad as the board thinks he is. I'd prefer there was a way to keep Boyle and see what he is. I know nothing of this Walsh guy, other than the lack of BCS offers, but I agree that's enough to make it a bad trade all else equal.


Has Boyle officially welched on his "verbal" to BC yet? Don't we still technically have him?


yes, he is down to BC and UConn. I would imagine we will lose him to UConn.


that would really suck. bad

We could have 4 years with Boyle. I think Brad needs to step in here and fix this right now


Half retard or less please.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:11 pm
by eagle9903
Davis is at BC over the weekend for a visit.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:11 pm
by eagle9903
Webb got a Vandy offer and is almost certainly not coming (he wasn't anyway).

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:27 pm
by 31southst
twballgame9 wrote:I didn't like the hire, but I thought and have been vocal that I thought he could get BC back to TOB levels. So I am most certainly not working backwards from a conclusion that I just formed. The quote from the coach makes it pretty damn clear that Addazio is discouraging pocket passers from coming to the school that has developed so many of them in the past 20 years. That wouldn't bother me whatsover if he remotely came close to landing a recruit of Boyle's caliber that was a dual threat prior to making that call. But he hasn't.
My problem isn't with the system, but the reluctant stubbornness to stick to it before you have shown a modicum of ability to recruit the players for it.


This is the key to me. If we landed someone with offers of the level like Michael Julian (Wisconsin, NC State, Clemson), I would understand trading one QB for an equally regarded QB that better fits your system. But what we're doing by any objective measure is taking a considerable downgrade in talent. Again, I hope I'm wrong, Walsh is awesome, and I eat my words, but based on what we know now there's no argument on who is better between Boyle/Walsh.

The thing that makes this even dumber to me is Daz is going out of his way to push Boyle out the door. All he needs to say is "I favor a more mobile QB but if you're the best guy and win the job I'll adjust." Daz also can go try to recruit an even better mobile QB than Boyle in the 2014 class that legitimately wins the job. What he's doing makes no sense.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:32 pm
by DomingoOrtiz
thebigskinny31 wrote:Seems like it's down to BC & UConn for Boyle.

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-foo ... 9263.story



I really hope Bates is paying attention to this.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:40 pm
by chuckiedukes
DomingoOrtiz wrote:
thebigskinny31 wrote:Seems like it's down to BC & UConn for Boyle.

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-foo ... 9263.story



I really hope Bates is paying attention to this.




How do we make sure Bates is paying attention to this? Twitter bombs? What is BB's email address?

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:42 pm
by hansen
chuckiedukes wrote:
DomingoOrtiz wrote:
thebigskinny31 wrote:Seems like it's down to BC & UConn for Boyle.

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-foo ... 9263.story



I really hope Bates is paying attention to this.




How do we make sure Bates is paying attention to this? Twitter bombs? What is BB's email address?


it's not available... http://www.bceagles.com/school-bio/bc-s ... ctory.html

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:43 pm
by HJS
31southst wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:I didn't like the hire, but I thought and have been vocal that I thought he could get BC back to TOB levels. So I am most certainly not working backwards from a conclusion that I just formed. The quote from the coach makes it pretty damn clear that Addazio is discouraging pocket passers from coming to the school that has developed so many of them in the past 20 years. That wouldn't bother me whatsover if he remotely came close to landing a recruit of Boyle's caliber that was a dual threat prior to making that call. But he hasn't.
My problem isn't with the system, but the reluctant stubbornness to stick to it before you have shown a modicum of ability to recruit the players for it.


This is the key to me. If we landed someone with offers of the level like Michael Julian (Wisconsin, NC State, Clemson), I would understand trading one QB for an equally regarded QB that better fits your system. But what we're doing by any objective measure is taking a considerable downgrade in talent. Again, I hope I'm wrong, Walsh is awesome, and I eat my words, but based on what we know now there's no argument on who is better between Boyle/Walsh.

The thing that makes this even dumber to me is Daz is going out of his way to push Boyle out the door. All he needs to say is "I favor a more mobile QB but if you're the best guy and win the job I'll adjust." Daz also can go try to recruit an even better mobile QB than Boyle in the 2014 class that legitimately wins the job. What he's doing makes no sense.

I could also understand it if we didn't land a top mobile QB this year but beat NCS out for Brissett. In such a scenario, the assumption would be that the offense will be changed after Rettig graduates with Brissett taking the reigns. That would give Dazoo the time necessary to find the next Chris Coyer. But, of course, Dazoo lost out to newly-hired Doeren. That probably has something to do with the fact that Daziani was very publicly exposed as a terrible offensive mind while Brissett was being recruited by Florida. Florida only secured Brissett's verbal AFTER Dazoo was purged.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:44 pm
by HJS
hansen wrote:
chuckiedukes wrote:
DomingoOrtiz wrote:
thebigskinny31 wrote:Seems like it's down to BC & UConn for Boyle.

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-foo ... 9263.story



I really hope Bates is paying attention to this.




How do we make sure Bates is paying attention to this? Twitter bombs? What is BB's email address?


it's not available... http://www.bceagles.com/school-bio/bc-s ... ctory.html

BB doesn't accept email??? So much for always being accessible.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:50 pm
by chuckiedukes
HJS wrote:
hansen wrote:
chuckiedukes wrote:
DomingoOrtiz wrote:
thebigskinny31 wrote:Seems like it's down to BC & UConn for Boyle.

http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-foo ... 9263.story



I really hope Bates is paying attention to this.




How do we make sure Bates is paying attention to this? Twitter bombs? What is BB's email address?


it's not available... http://www.bceagles.com/school-bio/bc-s ... ctory.html

BB doesn't accept email??? So much for always being accessible.



Well then I suggest a meat-bomb campaign directed at Bates' admin assistant, Ms. Beth Mahoney: mahonebe@bc.edu

Fuck this shit.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:51 pm
by HJS
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:Im really confused. If the kid could play in Oregon's system, how the heck does he not fit at BC. I thought Boyle was mobile anyway


Oregon's system isn't Oregon's system anymore.

The spread takes many different forms. You have spreads run by Holgorsen, Chip Kelly, Sumlin, Kingsbury, Mike Gundy, Chad Morris and Steve Logan, are essentially the evolution of the run-and-shoot. And then, you have the spreads run by Daziani, Paul Johnson and Ken Niumatalolo, which are essentially the evolution of the wishbone.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:34 pm
by eagle9903
HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:Im really confused. If the kid could play in Oregon's system, how the heck does he not fit at BC. I thought Boyle was mobile anyway


Oregon's system isn't Oregon's system anymore.

The spread takes many different forms. You have spreads run by Holgorsen, Chip Kelly, Sumlin, Kingsbury, Mike Gundy, Chad Morris and Steve Logan, are essentially the evolution of the run-and-shoot. And then, you have the spreads run by Daziani, Paul Johnson and Ken Niumatalolo, which are essentially the evolution of the wishbone.


Chip Kelly has never had an offense which had as many passing yds as UF in 2009 (3305 yds on 364 attempts), the next year with Brantley wasn't out of line from a typical Kelly offense passing numbers wise either. I know numbers don't tell the whole tale, such as Percy Harvin YAC [edit: harvin wasn't even on that team, he left after Mullen's last year someone had this wrong in this same argument elsewhere on the board], but the UF offense had little in common with G-Tech or a service academy.

Temple was more similar to those. Ironically, it is pretty easily arguable that the switch at Temple -which worked very well one of two years- was tailoring the offensive system to personnel.

Also, to the original quoted part, Oregon had interest when Kelly was still around. It is unclear whether he ever had an offer but he does not now under Helfrich according to that courant article.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:34 pm
by eagle9903
bates is at brad.bates@bc.edu

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:59 pm
by HJS
eagle9903 wrote:Ironically, it is pretty easily arguable that the switch at Temple -which worked very well one of two years- was tailoring the offensive system to personnel.

Just as some have argued-away his 4-7 as the result of the move to the mighty NBE, the one year it worked was the result of facing terrible MAC defenses.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:02 pm
by 2001Eagle
HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:Im really confused. If the kid could play in Oregon's system, how the heck does he not fit at BC. I thought Boyle was mobile anyway


Oregon's system isn't Oregon's system anymore.

The spread takes many different forms. You have spreads run by Holgorsen, Chip Kelly, Sumlin, Kingsbury, Mike Gundy, Chad Morris and Steve Logan, are essentially the evolution of the run-and-shoot. And then, you have the spreads run by Daziani, Paul Johnson and Ken Niumatalolo, which are essentially the evolution of the wishbone.


i hate to interrupt your flow, but Rich Rod is generally credited with creating the zone read out of the shotgun, which is what Kely ran at Oregon. Not sure how accurate it is to say that the read option evolved from the run and shoot. It's more complicated than that, given especially that Kelly sometimes used wishbone formations (Barner and James in the backfield) while running the zone read.

Interesting side note, that Ryan Day is being quoted at length in the Philly papers regarding Kelly: http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/25/chip-kellys-first-quarterback-at-new-hampshire-talks-the-eagles-and-kellys-offense/

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:03 pm
by eagle9903
HJS wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:Ironically, it is pretty easily arguable that the switch at Temple -which worked very well one of two years- was tailoring the offensive system to personnel.

Just as some have argued-away his 4-7 as the result of the move to the mighty NBE, the one year it worked was the result of facing terrible MAC defenses.


I don't think that works that way.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:26 pm
by twballgame9
2001Eagle wrote:
HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:Im really confused. If the kid could play in Oregon's system, how the heck does he not fit at BC. I thought Boyle was mobile anyway


Oregon's system isn't Oregon's system anymore.

The spread takes many different forms. You have spreads run by Holgorsen, Chip Kelly, Sumlin, Kingsbury, Mike Gundy, Chad Morris and Steve Logan, are essentially the evolution of the run-and-shoot. And then, you have the spreads run by Daziani, Paul Johnson and Ken Niumatalolo, which are essentially the evolution of the wishbone.


i hate to interrupt your flow, but Rich Rod is generally credited with creating the zone read out of the shotgun, which is what Kely ran at Oregon. Not sure how accurate it is to say that the read option evolved from the run and shoot. It's more complicated than that, given especially that Kelly sometimes used wishbone formations (Barner and James in the backfield) while running the zone read.

Interesting side note, that Ryan Day is being quoted at length in the Philly papers regarding Kelly: http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/25/chip-kellys-first-quarterback-at-new-hampshire-talks-the-eagles-and-kellys-offense/


The bold part isn't remotely true. Logan was running zone read out of the shotgun with Jeff Blake and David Garrard long ago, and it found its way to a young Urban Meyer at Bowling Green. They are similar offenses now, but they were born from different sources - RichRods, the Veer, Logan's, the run and shoot. Hence the reason why RichRod was run heavy and Logan pass heavy.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:35 pm
by innocentbystander
HJS wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:Ironically, it is pretty easily arguable that the switch at Temple -which worked very well one of two years- was tailoring the offensive system to personnel.

Just as some have argued-away his 4-7 as the result of the move to the mighty NBE, the one year it worked was the result of facing terrible MAC defenses.


I'm less concerned about his record than I am what he has been saying to our best recruits (and we don't have many.) Gene Chizik was (what?) 5-19 before he came to Auburn and he won a national championship so.... previous recrods don't always mean anything.

But so far, I have not been impressed with the way Daz has handled the recruits (and that is the ONLY THING he has had to do so far in his job as HC.) I am not expecting much of this man and he hasn't stepped up to even that low level yet. Now I'm going to be at both West Coast games this year (New Mexico and California) and while I am there, I am going to screaming my head off for the Eagles in an effort to help them win. But I am doing that for the team and players, not this coach. I didn't like the hire and I like it even less now after this Boyle fiasco.

Boyle, if you are out there and you DO read these boards, please disregard Daz's comments and come to BC. I am asking you, I am not telling you. This will be one of the most important decisions of your life (a decision I made over 25 years ago that I regret even today) so I implore you, please don't let what he says discourage you.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:39 pm
by hansen
RECRUITS READ THESE BOARDS :dildodog

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:47 pm
by pick6pedro
innocentbystander wrote:
HJS wrote:
eagle9903 wrote:Ironically, it is pretty easily arguable that the switch at Temple -which worked very well one of two years- was tailoring the offensive system to personnel.

Just as some have argued-away his 4-7 as the result of the move to the mighty NBE, the one year it worked was the result of facing terrible MAC defenses.


I'm less concerned about his record than I am what he has been saying to our best recruits (and we don't have many.) Gene Chizik was (what?) 5-19 before he came to Auburn and he won a national championship so.... previous recrods don't always mean anything.

But so far, I have not been impressed with the way Daz has handled the recruits (and that is the ONLY THING he has had to do so far in his job as HC.) I am not expecting much of this man and he hasn't stepped up to even that low level yet. Now I'm going to be at both West Coast games this year (New Mexico and California) and while I am there, I am going to screaming my head off for the Eagles in an effort to help them win. But I am doing that for the team and players, not this coach. I didn't like the hire and I like it even less now after this Boyle fiasco.

Boyle, if you are out there and you DO read these boards, please disregard Daz's comments and come to BC. I am asking you, I am not telling you. This will be one of the most important decisions of your life (a decision I made over 25 years ago that I regret even today) so I implore you, please don't let what he says discourage you.


Is Boyle related to Bud Foster or something?

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:50 pm
by HJS
eagle9903 wrote:Chip Kelly has never had an offense which had as many passing yds as UF in 2009 (3305 yds on 364 attempts), the next year with Brantley wasn't out of line from a typical Kelly offense passing numbers wise either. I know numbers don't tell the whole tale, such as Percy Harvin YAC [edit: harvin wasn't even on that team, he left after Mullen's last year someone had this wrong in this same argument elsewhere on the board], but the UF offense had little in common with G-Tech or a service academy.

That is a skewed stat as UF's 2009 season included 14 games (as compared to Oregon who has never played more than 13 games in a season). For instance, in 2009, Florida averaged 236 passing yards per game (while Oregon 2010 season averaged 244). Looking more long term, Oregon averaged 214 passing yards (with Kelly as OC and HC). Daziani averaged 166 passing yards per game as OC/HC. But, that's not really the issue. Regardless of Tebow's senior year, Daz developed a reputation at Florida of being overly conservative and a run-heavy play-caller. He reinforced that reputation during his 2 years at Temple. Since coming to BC, he has done nothing to dispell it. Heck, he hasn't even made the attempt to change the perception. Daz is what he is.,, and that is an old OLine Coach who tends to 3-yards-and-a-cloud-of-dust... who believes that when you throw the ball 3 things can happen and two are bad.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:52 pm
by 2001Eagle
twballgame9 wrote:
2001Eagle wrote:
HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:Im really confused. If the kid could play in Oregon's system, how the heck does he not fit at BC. I thought Boyle was mobile anyway


Oregon's system isn't Oregon's system anymore.

The spread takes many different forms. You have spreads run by Holgorsen, Chip Kelly, Sumlin, Kingsbury, Mike Gundy, Chad Morris and Steve Logan, are essentially the evolution of the run-and-shoot. And then, you have the spreads run by Daziani, Paul Johnson and Ken Niumatalolo, which are essentially the evolution of the wishbone.


i hate to interrupt your flow, but Rich Rod is generally credited with creating the zone read out of the shotgun, which is what Kely ran at Oregon. Not sure how accurate it is to say that the read option evolved from the run and shoot. It's more complicated than that, given especially that Kelly sometimes used wishbone formations (Barner and James in the backfield) while running the zone read.

Interesting side note, that Ryan Day is being quoted at length in the Philly papers regarding Kelly: http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/25/chip-kellys-first-quarterback-at-new-hampshire-talks-the-eagles-and-kellys-offense/


The bold part isn't remotely true. Logan was running zone read out of the shotgun with Jeff Blake and David Garrard long ago, and it found its way to a young Urban Meyer at Bowling Green. They are similar offenses now, but they were born from different sources - RichRods, the Veer, Logan's, the run and shoot. Hence the reason why RichRod was run heavy and Logan pass heavy.


Think you're wrong Teddy. Rich Rod was running it at Glennville State circa 1990. Not saying he was the only one who had the idea, but he's generally credited for the zone read out of the spread shotgun. Hard to support your claim that what I said "isn't remotely true."

http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2012/09/oregon_ducks_offense_has_stron.html

Here too:http://nfl.si.com/2012/08/28/where-will-nfl-offenses-go-from-here/

Such was the case with the zone-read play that Rodriguez is widely credited with creating and which Tim Tebow so famously brought to the NFL stage last season. That design came about almost entirely by accident during Rich Rodriguez’s time as head coach at tiny Glenville (W.V.) State. As Rodriguez told SI’s Tim Layden in Blood, Sweat and Chalk, his quarterback at the time, Jed Drenning, bobbled a handoff attempt out of the shotgun and, instead, kept the ball and bolted to where a defensive end had vacated his position.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:00 pm
by twballgame9
2001Eagle wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
2001Eagle wrote:
HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:Im really confused. If the kid could play in Oregon's system, how the heck does he not fit at BC. I thought Boyle was mobile anyway


Oregon's system isn't Oregon's system anymore.

The spread takes many different forms. You have spreads run by Holgorsen, Chip Kelly, Sumlin, Kingsbury, Mike Gundy, Chad Morris and Steve Logan, are essentially the evolution of the run-and-shoot. And then, you have the spreads run by Daziani, Paul Johnson and Ken Niumatalolo, which are essentially the evolution of the wishbone.


i hate to interrupt your flow, but Rich Rod is generally credited with creating the zone read out of the shotgun, which is what Kely ran at Oregon. Not sure how accurate it is to say that the read option evolved from the run and shoot. It's more complicated than that, given especially that Kelly sometimes used wishbone formations (Barner and James in the backfield) while running the zone read.

Interesting side note, that Ryan Day is being quoted at length in the Philly papers regarding Kelly: http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/25/chip-kellys-first-quarterback-at-new-hampshire-talks-the-eagles-and-kellys-offense/


The bold part isn't remotely true. Logan was running zone read out of the shotgun with Jeff Blake and David Garrard long ago, and it found its way to a young Urban Meyer at Bowling Green. They are similar offenses now, but they were born from different sources - RichRods, the Veer, Logan's, the run and shoot. Hence the reason why RichRod was run heavy and Logan pass heavy.


Think you're wrong Teddy. Rich Rod was running it at Glennville State circa 1990. Not saying he was the only one who had the idea, but he's generally credited for the zone read out of the spread shotgun. Hard to support your claim that what I said "isn't remotely true."

http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2012/09/oregon_ducks_offense_has_stron.html

Here too:http://nfl.si.com/2012/08/28/where-will-nfl-offenses-go-from-here/

Such was the case with the zone-read play that Rodriguez is widely credited with creating and which Tim Tebow so famously brought to the NFL stage last season. That design came about almost entirely by accident during Rich Rodriguez’s time as head coach at tiny Glenville (W.V.) State. As Rodriguez told SI’s Tim Layden in Blood, Sweat and Chalk, his quarterback at the time, Jed Drenning, bobbled a handoff attempt out of the shotgun and, instead, kept the ball and bolted to where a defensive end had vacated his position.


Logan was running it at a real college in 1991. They developed at the same time, and even IBpedia for RichRod notes the passing versions developed first. Logans was one of them.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:06 pm
by 2001Eagle
twballgame9 wrote:
2001Eagle wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
2001Eagle wrote:
HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:Im really confused. If the kid could play in Oregon's system, how the heck does he not fit at BC. I thought Boyle was mobile anyway


Oregon's system isn't Oregon's system anymore.

The spread takes many different forms. You have spreads run by Holgorsen, Chip Kelly, Sumlin, Kingsbury, Mike Gundy, Chad Morris and Steve Logan, are essentially the evolution of the run-and-shoot. And then, you have the spreads run by Daziani, Paul Johnson and Ken Niumatalolo, which are essentially the evolution of the wishbone.


i hate to interrupt your flow, but Rich Rod is generally credited with creating the zone read out of the shotgun, which is what Kely ran at Oregon. Not sure how accurate it is to say that the read option evolved from the run and shoot. It's more complicated than that, given especially that Kelly sometimes used wishbone formations (Barner and James in the backfield) while running the zone read.

Interesting side note, that Ryan Day is being quoted at length in the Philly papers regarding Kelly: http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/25/chip-kellys-first-quarterback-at-new-hampshire-talks-the-eagles-and-kellys-offense/


The bold part isn't remotely true. Logan was running zone read out of the shotgun with Jeff Blake and David Garrard long ago, and it found its way to a young Urban Meyer at Bowling Green. They are similar offenses now, but they were born from different sources - RichRods, the Veer, Logan's, the run and shoot. Hence the reason why RichRod was run heavy and Logan pass heavy.


Think you're wrong Teddy. Rich Rod was running it at Glennville State circa 1990. Not saying he was the only one who had the idea, but he's generally credited for the zone read out of the spread shotgun. Hard to support your claim that what I said "isn't remotely true."

http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2012/09/oregon_ducks_offense_has_stron.html

Here too:http://nfl.si.com/2012/08/28/where-will-nfl-offenses-go-from-here/

Such was the case with the zone-read play that Rodriguez is widely credited with creating and which Tim Tebow so famously brought to the NFL stage last season. That design came about almost entirely by accident during Rich Rodriguez’s time as head coach at tiny Glenville (W.V.) State. As Rodriguez told SI’s Tim Layden in Blood, Sweat and Chalk, his quarterback at the time, Jed Drenning, bobbled a handoff attempt out of the shotgun and, instead, kept the ball and bolted to where a defensive end had vacated his position.


Logan was running it at a real college in 1991. They developed at the same time, and even IBpedia for RichRod notes the passing versions developed first. Logans was one of them.


Doesn't address my point. Rich Rod is credited as running the first zone read running pays out of the shotgun spread. The existence of a pass oriented spread option prior to that doesn't impact the creation of the zone read aspect.

In any event, I believe Logan started at ECU at about the same time as Rich Rod at Glenville. You're king of the last word, so have at it hoss.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:11 pm
by twballgame9
2001Eagle wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
2001Eagle wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
2001Eagle wrote:
HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:Im really confused. If the kid could play in Oregon's system, how the heck does he not fit at BC. I thought Boyle was mobile anyway


Oregon's system isn't Oregon's system anymore.

The spread takes many different forms. You have spreads run by Holgorsen, Chip Kelly, Sumlin, Kingsbury, Mike Gundy, Chad Morris and Steve Logan, are essentially the evolution of the run-and-shoot. And then, you have the spreads run by Daziani, Paul Johnson and Ken Niumatalolo, which are essentially the evolution of the wishbone.


i hate to interrupt your flow, but Rich Rod is generally credited with creating the zone read out of the shotgun, which is what Kely ran at Oregon. Not sure how accurate it is to say that the read option evolved from the run and shoot. It's more complicated than that, given especially that Kelly sometimes used wishbone formations (Barner and James in the backfield) while running the zone read.

Interesting side note, that Ryan Day is being quoted at length in the Philly papers regarding Kelly: http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/25/chip-kellys-first-quarterback-at-new-hampshire-talks-the-eagles-and-kellys-offense/


The bold part isn't remotely true. Logan was running zone read out of the shotgun with Jeff Blake and David Garrard long ago, and it found its way to a young Urban Meyer at Bowling Green. They are similar offenses now, but they were born from different sources - RichRods, the Veer, Logan's, the run and shoot. Hence the reason why RichRod was run heavy and Logan pass heavy.


Think you're wrong Teddy. Rich Rod was running it at Glennville State circa 1990. Not saying he was the only one who had the idea, but he's generally credited for the zone read out of the spread shotgun. Hard to support your claim that what I said "isn't remotely true."

http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2012/09/oregon_ducks_offense_has_stron.html

Here too:http://nfl.si.com/2012/08/28/where-will-nfl-offenses-go-from-here/

Such was the case with the zone-read play that Rodriguez is widely credited with creating and which Tim Tebow so famously brought to the NFL stage last season. That design came about almost entirely by accident during Rich Rodriguez’s time as head coach at tiny Glenville (W.V.) State. As Rodriguez told SI’s Tim Layden in Blood, Sweat and Chalk, his quarterback at the time, Jed Drenning, bobbled a handoff attempt out of the shotgun and, instead, kept the ball and bolted to where a defensive end had vacated his position.


Logan was running it at a real college in 1991. They developed at the same time, and even IBpedia for RichRod notes the passing versions developed first. Logans was one of them.


Doesn't address my point. Rich Rod is credited as running the first zone read running pays out of the shotgun spread. The existence of a pass oriented spread option prior to that doesn't impact the creation of the zone read aspect.

In any event, I believe Logan started at ECU at about the same time as Rich Rod at Glenville. You're king of the last word, so have at it hoss.


It's mostly RichRod that credits RichRod with that.

Logan developed his offense at Tulsa as an OC in the 80s while RichRod was playing defense and a GA at West Virginia under Don Nehlen.

Re: 2013 Recruiting Thread

PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:19 pm
by eagle9903
twballgame9 wrote:
2001Eagle wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
2001Eagle wrote:
HJS wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:Im really confused. If the kid could play in Oregon's system, how the heck does he not fit at BC. I thought Boyle was mobile anyway


Oregon's system isn't Oregon's system anymore.

The spread takes many different forms. You have spreads run by Holgorsen, Chip Kelly, Sumlin, Kingsbury, Mike Gundy, Chad Morris and Steve Logan, are essentially the evolution of the run-and-shoot. And then, you have the spreads run by Daziani, Paul Johnson and Ken Niumatalolo, which are essentially the evolution of the wishbone.


i hate to interrupt your flow, but Rich Rod is generally credited with creating the zone read out of the shotgun, which is what Kely ran at Oregon. Not sure how accurate it is to say that the read option evolved from the run and shoot. It's more complicated than that, given especially that Kelly sometimes used wishbone formations (Barner and James in the backfield) while running the zone read.

Interesting side note, that Ryan Day is being quoted at length in the Philly papers regarding Kelly: http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2013/01/25/chip-kellys-first-quarterback-at-new-hampshire-talks-the-eagles-and-kellys-offense/


The bold part isn't remotely true. Logan was running zone read out of the shotgun with Jeff Blake and David Garrard long ago, and it found its way to a young Urban Meyer at Bowling Green. They are similar offenses now, but they were born from different sources - RichRods, the Veer, Logan's, the run and shoot. Hence the reason why RichRod was run heavy and Logan pass heavy.


Think you're wrong Teddy. Rich Rod was running it at Glennville State circa 1990. Not saying he was the only one who had the idea, but he's generally credited for the zone read out of the spread shotgun. Hard to support your claim that what I said "isn't remotely true."

http://www.oregonlive.com/ducks/index.ssf/2012/09/oregon_ducks_offense_has_stron.html

Here too:http://nfl.si.com/2012/08/28/where-will-nfl-offenses-go-from-here/

Such was the case with the zone-read play that Rodriguez is widely credited with creating and which Tim Tebow so famously brought to the NFL stage last season. That design came about almost entirely by accident during Rich Rodriguez’s time as head coach at tiny Glenville (W.V.) State. As Rodriguez told SI’s Tim Layden in Blood, Sweat and Chalk, his quarterback at the time, Jed Drenning, bobbled a handoff attempt out of the shotgun and, instead, kept the ball and bolted to where a defensive end had vacated his position.


Logan was running it at a real college in 1991. They developed at the same time, and even IBpedia for RichRod notes the passing versions developed first. Logans was one of them.


It is interesting to look at what Logan did at ECU. When he was the OC under Lewis and had Blake he threw a whole lot, then in his first year as HC 1992 he called for a temple-esque 183 passes, which resulted in 924 yds (which by board definition means a service academy offense and is not a reflection on who the qb is), then he went nuts for the rest of the 90s until he got to Garrard with 4 or 5 straight years at or above 400 attempts, but with garrard the pass attempts were much closer to 300 than 400.