EagleOutsider.com

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

I actually don't see how it's particularly relevant. "My neighbor murdered a guy so that makes ok that I murdered a guy." Hypocrisy is one thing, but it doesn't impact right vs wrong.

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

Yes that's true.

If I had been the one walking in on Sandusky getting husky with a 10 year old boy, I might have had a heart attack. I would have been filled with so much rage, chemicals in my body so fucked up that instant, I might have vomited right there in the shower.

bignick33 {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

I actually don't see how it's particularly relevant. "My neighbor murdered a guy so that makes ok that I murdered a guy." Hypocrisy is one thing, but it doesn't impact right vs wrong.

I think the people who go on about how badly they would have stomped on Sandusky's neck are mostly full of shit and stupid, some people would, but bragging about one's inclination and/or ability to do so is stupid. However, I think almost everyone, would have contacted the police or at least quit working for the Penn State football program.

bignick33 {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

I actually don't see how it's particularly relevant. "My neighbor murdered a guy so that makes ok that I murdered a guy." Hypocrisy is one thing, but it doesn't impact right vs wrong.

Part of the criticism of saying he did the wrong thing and saying that you can't believe he didn't stop it or do more is the overwhelming implication that the one being critical would have done everything the right way. That's the way a lot of the criticism sounds.

I guess my point is that even if hypocritical, the criticisms are still very valid.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

I actually don't see how it's particularly relevant. "My neighbor murdered a guy so that makes ok that I murdered a guy." Hypocrisy is one thing, but it doesn't impact right vs wrong.

I think the people who go on about how badly they would have stomped on Sandusky's neck are mostly full of shit and stupid, some people would, but bragging about one's inclination and/or ability to do so is stupid. However, I think almost everyone, would have contacted the police or at least quit working for the Penn State football program.

Totally agreed. The typical person may not have stopped it on the spot but would be more likely to report it after the fact in a non-confrontational manner. Of course, quitting working at PSU is kind of just avoidance of the problem, so that is only partly right in taking a stand that you won't be part of it - doesn't help the kid(s).

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

If McQueary had interrupted he would have further scarred the kid for life. The humiliation of being caught in the act furthers the trauma IMO. mcQueary should have left immediately and called the police and/or protective services... Professionals trained to handle such events.

bignick33 {l Wrote}:I guess my point is that even if hypocritical, the criticisms are still very valid.

No doubt. I'm just bringing up the hypocrisy I see with the whole "I can't believe he didn't..." crowd.

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

If McQueary had interrupted he would have further scarred the kid for life. The humiliation of being caught in the act furthers the trauma IMO. mcQueary should have left immediately and called the police and/or protective services... Professionals trained to handle such events.

I'm not sure I agree. As humiliating as it is (and it is no matter how you cut it), it would have immediately shown the kid that someone was on his side. That someone cared. That someone actively protected him. In fact, what has happened is that there were all sorts of signals that have said that these men were more important than this boy.

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

If McQueary had interrupted he would have further scarred the kid for life. The humiliation of being caught in the act furthers the trauma IMO. mcQueary should have left immediately and called the police and/or protective services... Professionals trained to handle such events.

I'm not sure I agree. As humiliating as it is (and it is no matter how you cut it), it would have immediately shown the kid that someone was on his side. That someone cared. That someone actively protected him. In fact, what has happened is that there were all sorts of signals that have said that these men were more important than this boy.

If the dude was up his asshole, then only bad things can happen there (especially from a kid who prob doesn't take it up there often). Not that anything like that has happened to me but I knew this girl once who had her asshole ripped open and had to get surgery. Frightening stuff.

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

If McQueary had interrupted he would have further scarred the kid for life. The humiliation of being caught in the act furthers the trauma IMO. mcQueary should have left immediately and called the police and/or protective services... Professionals trained to handle such events.

I'm not sure I agree. As humiliating as it is (and it is no matter how you cut it), it would have immediately shown the kid that someone was on his side. That someone cared. That someone actively protected him. In fact, what has happened is that there were all sorts of signals that have said that these men were more important than this boy.

If the dude was up his asshole, then only bad things can happen there (especially from a kid who prob doesn't take it up there often). Not that anything like that has happened to me but I knew this girl once who had her asshole ripped open and had to get surgery. Frightening stuff.

See that line way back over there? You crossed it.

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

If McQueary had interrupted he would have further scarred the kid for life. The humiliation of being caught in the act furthers the trauma IMO. mcQueary should have left immediately and called the police and/or protective services... Professionals trained to handle such events.

I'm not sure I agree. As humiliating as it is (and it is no matter how you cut it), it would have immediately shown the kid that someone was on his side. That someone cared. That someone actively protected him. In fact, what has happened is that there were all sorts of signals that have said that these men were more important than this boy.

If the dude was up his asshole, then only bad things can happen there (especially from a kid who prob doesn't take it up there often). Not that anything like that has happened to me but I knew this girl once who had her asshole ripped open and had to get surgery. Frightening stuff.

See that line way back over there? You crossed it.

With first or second sentence?

bignick33 {l Wrote}:I guess my point is that even if hypocritical, the criticisms are still very valid.

I'm sure McQueary feels awful that he did not involve law enforcement that very day.

For the rest of his life (no matter where McQueary goes or what he does) he will long be remembered as the guy who DIDN'T call the police. As has been said repeatedly on this thread, he is going to be okay (legally) probably, but what happened and his reaction to what he didn't do, will probably haunt him.

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

If McQueary had interrupted he would have further scarred the kid for life. The humiliation of being caught in the act furthers the trauma IMO. mcQueary should have left immediately and called the police and/or protective services... Professionals trained to handle such events.

I'm not sure I agree. As humiliating as it is (and it is no matter how you cut it), it would have immediately shown the kid that someone was on his side. That someone cared. That someone actively protected him. In fact, what has happened is that there were all sorts of signals that have said that these men were more important than this boy.

If the dude was up his asshole, then only bad things can happen there (especially from a kid who prob doesn't take it up there often). Not that anything like that has happened to me but I knew this girl once who had her asshole ripped open and had to get surgery. Frightening stuff.

See that line way back over there? You crossed it.

With first or second sentence?

If you have to ask...

I think I'm going to campion lent this thread.

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:I guess my point is that even if hypocritical, the criticisms are still very valid.

I'm sure McQueary feels awful that he did not involve law enforcement that very day.

For the rest of his life (no matter where McQueary goes or what he does) he will long be remembered as the guy who DIDN'T call the police. As has been said repeatedly on this thread, he is going to be okay (legally) probably, but what happened and his reaction to what he didn't do, will probably haunt him.

You've made a bad assumption here; you're assuming he has a soul...

Jesus H. Christ, Hansen. Gross.

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

If McQueary had interrupted he would have further scarred the kid for life. The humiliation of being caught in the act furthers the trauma IMO. mcQueary should have left immediately and called the police and/or protective services... Professionals trained to handle such events.

I'm not sure I agree. As humiliating as it is (and it is no matter how you cut it), it would have immediately shown the kid that someone was on his side. That someone cared. That someone actively protected him. In fact, what has happened is that there were all sorts of signals that have said that these men were more important than this boy.

If the dude was up his asshole, then only bad things can happen there (especially from a kid who prob doesn't take it up there often). Not that anything like that has happened to me but I knew this girl once who had her asshole ripped open and had to get surgery. Frightening stuff.

See that line way back over there? You crossed it.

With first or second sentence?

This whole episode makes it almost impossible to know where the lines are (what is appropriate to discuss, and what isn't.) Don't sweat it hansen.

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

hansen {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:I must have missed something but why are some PSU fans blaming McQueary? He is getting death threats.

1) Some people are mad at him because he, at 6'5 220something and a former(barely) division 1 athlete spersonally witnessed a 10 year old boy being anally raped and didn't physically intervene, or call the police, or yell, or take any other action to immediately end the assault.

That is Megan McArdle's bitch with McQueary over at the Atlantic. She said she can understand leaving the scene for 5 minutes or whatever with the trauma, but then after you've composed yourself, go back (or get someone else and go back) and stop what is happening and call the police.

In all seriousness, we all know exactly what to do. It's very cut and dry. And it's very easy to be critical while not being in that position. Right or wrong, it's not always that simple when you're the one who sees it in the real world. I can guarantee of those who give him the most shit, there are plenty who would have done the same and there are some who would have done less. It's sad, but it's definitely true.

If McQueary had interrupted he would have further scarred the kid for life. The humiliation of being caught in the act furthers the trauma IMO. mcQueary should have left immediately and called the police and/or protective services... Professionals trained to handle such events.

Remember when Regal lost his shit in this thread and got into a , I miss those days.

I'm not sure I agree. As humiliating as it is (and it is no matter how you cut it), it would have immediately shown the kid that someone was on his side. That someone cared. That someone actively protected him. In fact, what has happened is that there were all sorts of signals that have said that these men were more important than this boy.

If the dude was up his asshole, then only bad things can happen there (especially from a kid who prob doesn't take it up there often). Not that anything like that has happened to me but I knew this girl once who had her asshole ripped open and had to get surgery. Frightening stuff.

Remember the time Regal lost his shit in this thread and got into a , I miss those days.

The funniest part about my inappropriate post is that people keep quoting it...

hansen {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:I guess my point is that even if hypocritical, the criticisms are still very valid.

I'm sure McQueary feels awful that he did not involve law enforcement that very day.

For the rest of his life (no matter where McQueary goes or what he does) he will long be remembered as the guy who DIDN'T call the police. As has been said repeatedly on this thread, he is going to be okay (legally) probably, but what happened and his reaction to what he didn't do, will probably haunt him.

You've made a bad assumption here; you're assuming he has a soul...

We all have one.

At that moment, McQueary's soul might have just leaped out of body (temporarily) and left him in shock and horror. Like I said earlier, if it was me I probably would have thrown up the moment I saw what was happening, or (at worst) had a heart attack. There is only so much trauma the body can take when you are least expecting it.

hansen {l Wrote}:The funniest part about my inappropriate post is that people keep quoting it...

don't worry about it

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

hansen {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:I guess my point is that even if hypocritical, the criticisms are still very valid.

I'm sure McQueary feels awful that he did not involve law enforcement that very day.

For the rest of his life (no matter where McQueary goes or what he does) he will long be remembered as the guy who DIDN'T call the police. As has been said repeatedly on this thread, he is going to be okay (legally) probably, but what happened and his reaction to what he didn't do, will probably haunt him.

You've made a bad assumption here; you're assuming he has a soul...

We all have one.

At that moment, McQueary's soul might have just leaped out of body (temporarily) and left him in shock and horror. Like I said earlier, if it was me I probably would have thrown up the moment I saw what was happening, or (at worst) had a heart attack. There is only so much trauma the body can take when you are least expecting it.

This would explain so much. Thanks, IB.

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:I guess my point is that even if hypocritical, the criticisms are still very valid.

I'm sure McQueary feels awful that he did not involve law enforcement that very day.

For the rest of his life (no matter where McQueary goes or what he does) he will long be remembered as the guy who DIDN'T call the police. As has been said repeatedly on this thread, he is going to be okay (legally) probably, but what happened and his reaction to what he didn't do, will probably haunt him.

IB is able to get inside the mind of not just a rapist, but a rape enabler.

Endless Mike {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:I guess my point is that even if hypocritical, the criticisms are still very valid.

I'm sure McQueary feels awful that he did not involve law enforcement that very day.

For the rest of his life (no matter where McQueary goes or what he does) he will long be remembered as the guy who DIDN'T call the police. As has been said repeatedly on this thread, he is going to be okay (legally) probably, but what happened and his reaction to what he didn't do, will probably haunt him.

IB is able to get inside the mind of not just a rapist, but a rape enabler.

Mike, you are McQueary, what would you have done at that moment? I want to say that I would have stopped it, that I would have restrained Sanfucksky from the boy he was traumatizing, but I wasn't there and I don't know how I would have reacted if thrown into that situation. We all react to trauma in different ways. I would have called the police, that much I know I would have done.

Does anyone here think anyone associated with Penn State had District Attorney Ray Gricar murdered?

I think Gricar killed himself out of guilt.

bignick33 {l Wrote}:I think Gricar killed himself out of guilt.

Well, I think you are trying to be funny but we know that couldn't have happened.

And why do we know that didn't happen? Where is the body?

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:I think Gricar killed himself out of guilt.

Well, I think you are trying to be funny but we know that couldn't have happened.

And why do we know that didn't happen? Where is the body?

I wasn't trying to be funny. Are you?

bignick33 {l Wrote}:

innocentbystander {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:I think Gricar killed himself out of guilt.

Well, I think you are trying to be funny but we know that couldn't have happened.

And why do we know that didn't happen? Where is the body?

I wasn't trying to be funny. Are you?

nospace missed the conception and didn't get to give his followers his essence. he's pissed.

i think it's more lilkely that he killed himself than he was murdered, especially given that gricar's brother killed himself. however, it's bizarre that no body was ever found. tough to bury yourself after suicide.

McQueary not calling the police immediately is one thing. Not doing anything after he saw the cover up is yet another.