Ray Rice

by **talon** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:34 am

The NFL says they never saw the video before the 2 game suspension. I don't believe them, but what if I want to give them the benefit of the doubt ... less than 2 weeks ago, Goodell admitted that he messed up, 2 games was probably too lenient and he said from now on, it'll be six games. Was that a reaction to seeing the video a few weeks ago?

by **twballgame9** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:40 am

talon {l Wrote}:The NFL says they never saw the video before the 2 game suspension. I don't believe them, but what if I want to give them the benefit of the doubt ... less than 2 weeks ago, Goodell admitted that he messed up, 2 games was probably too lenient and he said from now on, it'll be six games. Was that a reaction to seeing the video a few weeks ago?

Do we have an aluminum foil hat emoticon somewhere?

by **twballgame9** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:41 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
talon {l Wrote}:The NFL says they never saw the video before the 2 game suspension. I don't believe them, but what if I want to give them the benefit of the doubt ... less than 2 weeks ago, Goodell admitted that he messed up, 2 games was probably too lenient and he said from now on, it'll be six games. Was that a reaction to seeing the video a few weeks ago?

Do we have an aluminum foil hat emoticon somewhere?

by **talon** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:45 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
talon {l Wrote}:The NFL says they never saw the video before the 2 game suspension. I don't believe them, but what if I want to give them the benefit of the doubt ... less than 2 weeks ago, Goodell admitted that he messed up, 2 games was probably too lenient and he said from now on, it'll be six games. Was that a reaction to seeing the video a few weeks ago?

Do we have an aluminum foil hat emoticon somewhere?

Believing that someone at the NFL saw the video before TMZ released it = believing UFOs and little green men exist.

by **angrychicken** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:48 am

claver2010 {l Wrote}:
"I woke up this morning feeling like I had a horrible nightmare, feeling like I'm mourning the death of my closest friend," Janay Rice wrote. "But to have to accept the fact that it's reality is a nightmare in itself. No one knows the pain that [the] media & unwanted options from the public has caused my family. To make us relive a moment in our lives that we regret every day is a horrible thing. To take something away from the man I love that he has worked his [butt off] for all his life just to gain ratings is horrific.

"THIS IS OUR LIFE! What don't you all get. If your intentions were to hurt us, embarrass us, make us feel alone, take all happiness away, you've succeeded on so many levels. Just know we will continue to grow & show the world what real love is! Ravensnation we love you!"

Read more: http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/rave ... z3Cp8O2XOb

wut?

Much like the Ray Lewis deal, snitches get stitches. That's so Raven.

by **claver2010** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:48 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
talon {l Wrote}:The NFL says they never saw the video before the 2 game suspension. I don't believe them, but what if I want to give them the benefit of the doubt ... less than 2 weeks ago, Goodell admitted that he messed up, 2 games was probably too lenient and he said from now on, it'll be six games. Was that a reaction to seeing the video a few weeks ago?

Do we have an aluminum foil hat emoticon somewhere?

by **BCMurt09** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:48 am

talon {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
talon {l Wrote}:The NFL says they never saw the video before the 2 game suspension. I don't believe them, but what if I want to give them the benefit of the doubt ... less than 2 weeks ago, Goodell admitted that he messed up, 2 games was probably too lenient and he said from now on, it'll be six games. Was that a reaction to seeing the video a few weeks ago?

Do we have an aluminum foil hat emoticon somewhere?

Believing that someone at the NFL saw the video before TMZ released it = believing UFOs and little green men exist.

I'm not sure the NFL would have anything to gain by covering up a Ray Rice video. If they were covering up Tom Brady giving a left hook to Giselle, that would be a different story. It's not like Ray Rice is a particularly big superstar that they would gain by protecting him.

by **rktbrkr** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:55 am

If they really gave RR 25M upfront, no stings attached they are fools, I don't believe it but i do believe he'll be in serious financial straights soon if he can't get the NFL to forgive him "THEY have suffered enough blablahblah"

If Goddell falls on his sword for this nobody will touch Rice with a barge pole.

How many NBA/NFL thugs you think are sweating some video turning up of them decking their wimmen

by **twballgame9** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:03 am

talon {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
talon {l Wrote}:The NFL says they never saw the video before the 2 game suspension. I don't believe them, but what if I want to give them the benefit of the doubt ... less than 2 weeks ago, Goodell admitted that he messed up, 2 games was probably too lenient and he said from now on, it'll be six games. Was that a reaction to seeing the video a few weeks ago?

Do we have an aluminum foil hat emoticon somewhere?

Believing that someone at the NFL saw the video before TMZ released it = believing UFOs and little green men exist.

Again, give me one reason the NFL offices would jeopardize their jobs and the league's reputation for Ray fucking Rice.

by **talon** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:09 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
talon {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
talon {l Wrote}:The NFL says they never saw the video before the 2 game suspension. I don't believe them, but what if I want to give them the benefit of the doubt ... less than 2 weeks ago, Goodell admitted that he messed up, 2 games was probably too lenient and he said from now on, it'll be six games. Was that a reaction to seeing the video a few weeks ago?

Do we have an aluminum foil hat emoticon somewhere?

Believing that someone at the NFL saw the video before TMZ released it = believing UFOs and little green men exist.

Again, give me one reason the NFL offices would jeopardize their jobs and the league's reputation for Ray fucking Rice.

underestimating how people would react?

by **twballgame9** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:12 am

talon {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
talon {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
talon {l Wrote}:The NFL says they never saw the video before the 2 game suspension. I don't believe them, but what if I want to give them the benefit of the doubt ... less than 2 weeks ago, Goodell admitted that he messed up, 2 games was probably too lenient and he said from now on, it'll be six games. Was that a reaction to seeing the video a few weeks ago?

Do we have an aluminum foil hat emoticon somewhere?

Believing that someone at the NFL saw the video before TMZ released it = believing UFOs and little green men exist.

Again, give me one reason the NFL offices would jeopardize their jobs and the league's reputation for Ray fucking Rice.

underestimating how people would react?

Yes, they certainly did, but given the history of this commissioner, what about this player made them act more leniently than with respect to many other players? Nothing. There's no way they saw yesterday's tape and only gave him two games thinking that would fly. Based only on the first tape, I could see them being that stupid.

by **twballgame9** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:16 am

Again, fucking up and underestimating the public reaction has nothing to do with their reasoning for being so lenient to Ray Rice in the first place. I never said that they didn't fuck up, I just said no one at the NFL was going to stick their necks out for an overrated aging RB. This is not Michael Jordan we are talking about, it is more like Michael Ray Richardson.

by **talon** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:30 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Yes, they certainly did, but given the history of this commissioner, what about this player made them act more leniently than with respect to many other players? Nothing. There's no way they saw yesterday's tape and only gave him two games thinking that would fly. Based only on the first tape, I could see them being that stupid.

I don't think that the NFL thinks that Ray Rice is some superstar who needs extra protection. If anything, they thought he was just like any other starting RB in the league and figured that this would blow over.

by **twballgame9** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:36 am

talon {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Yes, they certainly did, but given the history of this commissioner, what about this player made them act more leniently than with respect to many other players? Nothing. There's no way they saw yesterday's tape and only gave him two games thinking that would fly. Based only on the first tape, I could see them being that stupid.

I don't think that the NFL thinks that Ray Rice is some superstar who needs extra protection. If anything, they thought he was just like any other starting RB in the league and figured that this would blow over.

Except that the NFL under Goodell has never done that - his reputation is indeed the opposite.

by **talon** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:04 am

Did Daryl Washington get a severe punishment for breaking his girlfriend's collarbone?
Did Ahmad Brooks get a severe punishment for punching a woman in the eye causing her to lose consciousness?
Did James Harrison get a severe punishment for punching his girlfriend?
Brandon Marshall was suspended 1 game for domestic violence.
Erik Walden was suspended 1 game for domestic violence.

There have been plenty of NFL players who have hit women before and got slaps on the wrist if they got any punishment at all.

by **twballgame9** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:11 am

talon {l Wrote}:Did Daryl Washington get a severe punishment for breaking his girlfriend's collarbone?
Did Ahmad Brooks get a severe punishment for punching a woman in the eye causing her to lose consciousness?
Did James Harrison get a severe punishment for punching his girlfriend?
Brandon Marshall was suspended 1 game for domestic violence.
Erik Walden was suspended 1 game for domestic violence.

There have been plenty of NFL players who have hit women before and got slaps on the wrist if they got any punishment at all.

Show me the video of those guys dragging their unconscious victims by the hair out of an elevator in a public place.

by **twballgame9** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:12 am

PS Washington is already suspended a year, and has to be reinstated. Should they suspend him twice?

Also, Marshall initially got 3 games and it was successfully appealed.

by **talon** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:23 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:PS Washington is already suspended a year, and has to be reinstated. Should they suspend him twice?

For substance abuse.

by **twballgame9** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:29 am

talon {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:PS Washington is already suspended a year, and has to be reinstated. Should they suspend him twice?
For substance abuse.

I know. The dv plea came after. Will the suspension be worse if they say its for both? Like I said, he still has to be reinstated - this Rice situation may spell the end for him too.

by **talon** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:46 pm

ESPN's Chris Mortensen in July:

We saw the TMZ video of what happened outside—when he was dragging her out unconscious—but inside, I'm told from those who have seen the video, it wasn't pretty. In fact, she attacks him—we don't know the reason why—and he strikes her, strikes her hard. And her head—according to the sources I've spoken to—struck the rail inside the elevator and she was unconscious.

Chris Mortensen yesterday:

NFL: Ray Rice video was not made available to them,despite requests to law enforcement. Nothing on whether NFL had account of what happened

His sources in July gave a very accurate description of a video they never saw. Must have been a very lucky guess.

by **TobaccoRoadEagle** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:50 pm

i missed the part where his sources said they were "the nfl"

you know, the same people that made the second quote

by **twballgame9** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:50 pm

talon {l Wrote}:ESPN's Chris Mortensen in July:

We saw the TMZ video of what happened outside—when he was dragging her out unconscious—but inside, I'm told from those who have seen the video, it wasn't pretty. In fact, she attacks him—we don't know the reason why—and he strikes her, strikes her hard. And her head—according to the sources I've spoken to—struck the rail inside the elevator and she was unconscious.

Chris Mortensen yesterday:

NFL: Ray Rice video was not made available to them,despite requests to law enforcement. Nothing on whether NFL had account of what happened

His sources in July gave a very accurate description of a video they never saw. Must have been a very lucky guess.

Or he talked to someone that had seen the video. Not sure where he says that those were NFL front office people - the only people he references are TMZ

by **Bumpers** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:25 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Again, fucking up and underestimating the public reaction has nothing to do with their reasoning for being so lenient to Ray Rice in the first place. I never said that they didn't fuck up, I just said no one at the NFL was going to stick their necks out for an overrated aging RB. This is not Michael Jordan we are talking about, it is more like Michael Ray Richardson.

Underestimating public reaction and organizational self-interest go hand-in-hand. You might say the reason for underestimating is wishful thinking driven by self-interest of protecting the NFL's reputation. Throw in a delusional belief that something like this can be kept under wraps, and there you have it. You have to figure for them to be this delusional, they've done this and gotten away with hiding bad shit before.

Anyway, smart people make really dumb decisions when they are scared.

There is precedent for this. Check out this video of an off-duty Chicago cop pummeling a little blond bartender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49kgG0s7lVk

The Chicago Police Supt. and his chiefs (a lot of smart people) looked at this video and seriously thought, so what? She didn't die, nothing broken, just bumps and bruises, just charge him with a misdemeanor. They actually believed they could keep the video quiet.

Wrong. Shit blew up. The State's Attorney's Office accused the Police Department of charging the misdemeanor against their directions. And the Supt. lost his gig. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/us/03 ... fta=y&_r=0

Guess what's going to happen to Roger.

by **tallsy** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:30 pm

McManus specifically says that an NFL source told her the content of the video that was revealed yesterday, which the NFL is claiming it never saw.

My theory is that while I think it's quite possible that Goddell himself didn't watch the video, others likely did. They thought the public would have moved on from this when the video was revealed two, three years down the road, if ever.

by **twballgame9** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:37 pm

Bumpers {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Again, fucking up and underestimating the public reaction has nothing to do with their reasoning for being so lenient to Ray Rice in the first place. I never said that they didn't fuck up, I just said no one at the NFL was going to stick their necks out for an overrated aging RB. This is not Michael Jordan we are talking about, it is more like Michael Ray Richardson.

Underestimating public reaction and organizational self-interest go hand-in-hand. You might say the reason for underestimating is wishful thinking driven by self-interest of protecting the NFL's reputation. Throw in a delusional belief that something like this can be kept under wraps, and there you have it. You have to figure for them to be this delusional, they've done this and gotten away with hiding bad shit before.

Anyway, smart people make really dumb decisions when they are scared.

There is precedent for this. Check out this video of an off-duty Chicago cop pummeling a little blond bartender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49kgG0s7lVk

The Chicago Police Supt. and his chiefs (a lot of smart people) looked at this video and seriously thought, so what? She didn't die, nothing broken, just bumps and bruises, just charge him with a misdemeanor. They actually believed they could keep the video quiet.

Wrong. Shit blew up. The State's Attorney's Office accused the Police Department of charging the misdemeanor against their directions. And the Supt. lost his gig. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/us/03 ... fta=y&_r=0

Guess what's going to happen to Roger.

Not so sure this analogy works. The Chicago police are actually justified in thinking they might be able to cover up a tape like that. If Roger Goodell saw this tape and thought he could hide it, he should be fired for stupid.

Don't really think there is any scenario, short of this being Peyton Manning, where the league sees this tape and gives a player two games and keeps their fingers crossed that it never comes out.

by **TobaccoRoadEagle** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:47 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
Bumpers {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Again, fucking up and underestimating the public reaction has nothing to do with their reasoning for being so lenient to Ray Rice in the first place. I never said that they didn't fuck up, I just said no one at the NFL was going to stick their necks out for an overrated aging RB. This is not Michael Jordan we are talking about, it is more like Michael Ray Richardson.

Underestimating public reaction and organizational self-interest go hand-in-hand. You might say the reason for underestimating is wishful thinking driven by self-interest of protecting the NFL's reputation. Throw in a delusional belief that something like this can be kept under wraps, and there you have it. You have to figure for them to be this delusional, they've done this and gotten away with hiding bad shit before.

Anyway, smart people make really dumb decisions when they are scared.

There is precedent for this. Check out this video of an off-duty Chicago cop pummeling a little blond bartender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49kgG0s7lVk

The Chicago Police Supt. and his chiefs (a lot of smart people) looked at this video and seriously thought, so what? She didn't die, nothing broken, just bumps and bruises, just charge him with a misdemeanor. They actually believed they could keep the video quiet.

Wrong. Shit blew up. The State's Attorney's Office accused the Police Department of charging the misdemeanor against their directions. And the Supt. lost his gig. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/us/03 ... fta=y&_r=0

Guess what's going to happen to Roger.

Not so sure this analogy works. The Chicago police are actually justified in thinking they might be able to cover up a tape like that. If Roger Goodell saw this tape and thought he could hide it, he should be fired for stupid.

Don't really think there is any scenario, short of this being Peyton Manning, where the league sees this tape and gives a player two games and keeps their fingers crossed that it never comes out.

tom brady would also be on that list.

russell wilson and clay matthews wouldn't be far behind.

kuechly would be on the tobaccoroad only list (as it seems like he's in every other commercial for local football coverage)

by **Bumpers** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:00 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
Bumpers {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Again, fucking up and underestimating the public reaction has nothing to do with their reasoning for being so lenient to Ray Rice in the first place. I never said that they didn't fuck up, I just said no one at the NFL was going to stick their necks out for an overrated aging RB. This is not Michael Jordan we are talking about, it is more like Michael Ray Richardson.

Underestimating public reaction and organizational self-interest go hand-in-hand. You might say the reason for underestimating is wishful thinking driven by self-interest of protecting the NFL's reputation. Throw in a delusional belief that something like this can be kept under wraps, and there you have it. You have to figure for them to be this delusional, they've done this and gotten away with hiding bad shit before.

Anyway, smart people make really dumb decisions when they are scared.

There is precedent for this. Check out this video of an off-duty Chicago cop pummeling a little blond bartender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49kgG0s7lVk

The Chicago Police Supt. and his chiefs (a lot of smart people) looked at this video and seriously thought, so what? She didn't die, nothing broken, just bumps and bruises, just charge him with a misdemeanor. They actually believed they could keep the video quiet.

Wrong. Shit blew up. The State's Attorney's Office accused the Police Department of charging the misdemeanor against their directions. And the Supt. lost his gig. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/us/03 ... fta=y&_r=0

Guess what's going to happen to Roger.

Not so sure this analogy works. The Chicago police are actually justified in thinking they might be able to cover up a tape like that. If Roger Goodell saw this tape and thought he could hide it, he should be fired for stupid.

Don't really think there is any scenario, short of this being Peyton Manning, where the league sees this tape and gives a player two games and keeps their fingers crossed that it never comes out.

Admittedly not a good analogy as far as you go. I totally agree that police departments generally have a more valid belief of keeping shit out of the public view. But in this case, the tape was given to them by the bartender, the PD didn't confiscate it from the bar. They knew she (and her lawyers, wink) had a copy, and they still thought they could keep it quiet and that even if it got out, it wouldn't be that bad.

The point is, this off-duty POS was not worth protecting either. But that's not why they did it from an organizational perspective. Just because the cop and the PD's interests are aligned does not mean that the cover-up was done for him.

From the organization's perspective, the thought is what can we do to avoid another black eye, and can the backlash after a cover-up be worse than sunlight on the front end? Nobody ever gets that one right, because that's where delusion and a history of getting away with cover-ups gets 'em every time. On that level, these are analogs in my opinion.

Oh, and FWIW, I don't think it matters whether the NFL saw the interior video or not before it came out; they had every opportunity to get it directly from Ray and his defense lawyers, if they didn't actually have it, so either way they willfully sought out ignorance or are playing it now. Both just as bad.

by **twballgame9** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:10 pm

Bumpers {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
Bumpers {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Again, fucking up and underestimating the public reaction has nothing to do with their reasoning for being so lenient to Ray Rice in the first place. I never said that they didn't fuck up, I just said no one at the NFL was going to stick their necks out for an overrated aging RB. This is not Michael Jordan we are talking about, it is more like Michael Ray Richardson.

Underestimating public reaction and organizational self-interest go hand-in-hand. You might say the reason for underestimating is wishful thinking driven by self-interest of protecting the NFL's reputation. Throw in a delusional belief that something like this can be kept under wraps, and there you have it. You have to figure for them to be this delusional, they've done this and gotten away with hiding bad shit before.

Anyway, smart people make really dumb decisions when they are scared.

There is precedent for this. Check out this video of an off-duty Chicago cop pummeling a little blond bartender: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=49kgG0s7lVk

The Chicago Police Supt. and his chiefs (a lot of smart people) looked at this video and seriously thought, so what? She didn't die, nothing broken, just bumps and bruises, just charge him with a misdemeanor. They actually believed they could keep the video quiet.

Wrong. Shit blew up. The State's Attorney's Office accused the Police Department of charging the misdemeanor against their directions. And the Supt. lost his gig. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/us/03 ... fta=y&_r=0

Guess what's going to happen to Roger.

Not so sure this analogy works. The Chicago police are actually justified in thinking they might be able to cover up a tape like that. If Roger Goodell saw this tape and thought he could hide it, he should be fired for stupid.

Don't really think there is any scenario, short of this being Peyton Manning, where the league sees this tape and gives a player two games and keeps their fingers crossed that it never comes out.

Admittedly not a good analogy as far as you go. I totally agree that police departments generally have a more valid belief of keeping shit out of the public view. But in this case, the tape was given to them by the bartender, the PD didn't confiscate it from the bar. They knew she (and her lawyers, wink) had a copy, and they still thought they could keep it quiet and that even if it got out, it wouldn't be that bad.

The point is, this off-duty POS was not worth protecting either. But that's not why they did it from an organizational perspective. Just because the cop and the PD's interests are aligned does not mean that the cover-up was done for him.

From the organization's perspective, the thought is what can we do to avoid another black eye, and can the backlash after a cover-up be worse than sunlight on the front end? Nobody ever gets that one right, because that's where delusion and a history of getting away with cover-ups gets 'em every time. On that level, these are analogs in my opinion.

Oh, and FWIW, I don't think it matters whether the NFL saw the interior video or not before it came out; they had every opportunity to get it directly from Ray and his defense lawyers, if they didn't actually have it, so either way they willfully sought out ignorance or are playing it now. Both just as bad.

I'm not so sure that the NFL's interests are aligned with those of its players. Unless you are suggesting that the inadequate suspension came from a reluctance to deal with the fallout with the player's union, in which case, there is an argument there.

The NFL can also weather a "black eye" a lot better than can most city police departments. NYPD, for example, is always on the defensive, so the choking death of a citizen is more fuel on the fire.

The NFL, on the other hand, governs one of the most popular sports in the world. It recently brushed off a gangland style killing by the TE of one of its most popular teams, with little or no consequence to its bottom dollar. As a result, I don't think they would be worried about the disclosure of the actual crime hurting the league enough to bother covering it up or downplaying it.

Had Goodell given a harsh sentence, he would have had to deal with some barking from the players' union. That would have been all. So no, I don't believe that he knew about the tape at the time. If he did, he's an idiot.

by **angrychicken** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:12 pm

I'd be pissed if I were Ray Rice.

by **TobaccoRoadEagle** on Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:50 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
Had Goodell given a harsh sentence, he would have had to deal with some barking from the players' union. That would have been all. So no, I don't believe that he knew about the tape at the time. If he did, he's an idiot.

and said barking would have stopped as soon as he showed them rice channelling his best ivan-putski-polish-hammer on his now wife

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