Page 2 of 3

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:16 pm
by Eagle1999
Wake’s starting receivers are 6’3 and 6’5. That’s not even close to small. Anyway, it doesn’t matter. We’re getting wrecked.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:24 pm
by twballgame9
No one is getting wrecked. They will lose but they will score. Wake 42, BC 33, missed tackles on Dillon and Bailey in the 30s.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2019 9:28 pm
by 2001Eagle
Wake 41 BC 24

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:22 am
by eepstein0
2001Eagle {l Wrote}:Wake 41 BC 24


This is about right.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:21 pm
by Eaglekeeper
We are bend, bending and broke defensive scheme team.

Epstein is correct, we need the Don Brown defense to disrupt the timing of the QB and WR’s and we need to put heavy pressure on their QB. You can’t give the QB time to pick apart this defense.

And please, no fucking hurry up to run up the middle offense!

Go Eagles!

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:48 am
by eepstein0
Eaglekeeper {l Wrote}:We are bend, bending and broke defensive scheme team.

Epstein is correct, we need the Don Brown defense to disrupt the timing of the QB and WR’s and we need to put heavy pressure on their QB. You can’t give the QB time to pick apart this defense.

And please, no fucking hurry up to run up the middle offense!

Go Eagles!


The hurry-up run offense is really dumb. If you're going to run our style of offense, you should be bleeding the play-clock similar to a Georgia Tech under Paul Johnson.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:21 am
by flakes
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:
Eaglekeeper {l Wrote}:We are bend, bending and broke defensive scheme team.

Epstein is correct, we need the Don Brown defense to disrupt the timing of the QB and WR’s and we need to put heavy pressure on their QB. You can’t give the QB time to pick apart this defense.

And please, no fucking hurry up to run up the middle offense!

Go Eagles!


The hurry-up run offense is really dumb. If you're going to run our style of offense, you should be bleeding the play-clock similar to a Georgia Tech under Paul Johnson.


If Dillon is truly dynamic, the last thing we should be doing is crowding the box with 3 TEs. We should be spreading formations so that (at worst) we're forcing only one v. one tackling. It's not surprising that we're the only idiots in the nation to be running an up-tempo power run game.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 4:09 pm
by HJS
flakes {l Wrote}:
eepstein0 {l Wrote}:
Eaglekeeper {l Wrote}:We are bend, bending and broke defensive scheme team.

Epstein is correct, we need the Don Brown defense to disrupt the timing of the QB and WR’s and we need to put heavy pressure on their QB. You can’t give the QB time to pick apart this defense.

And please, no fucking hurry up to run up the middle offense!

Go Eagles!


The hurry-up run offense is really dumb. If you're going to run our style of offense, you should be bleeding the play-clock similar to a Georgia Tech under Paul Johnson.


If Dillon is truly dynamic, the last thing we should be doing is crowding the box with 3 TEs. We should be spreading formations so that (at worst) we're forcing only one v. one tackling. It's not surprising that we're the only idiots in the nation to be running an up-tempo power run game.

Spreading the formation only works if you have a legit passing threat. We don’t.

The hurry-up power game is unique and can work. But, I agree with eppy, there isn’t any reason to be snapping the ball with 30 seconds left on the play clock. Line up to prevent subs... but, then mix it up as to your actually snap. This is especially the case when the D has let up one of their typical soul-crushing 15 play drives.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:54 pm
by eepstein0
I ordinarily would be annoyed I have a wedding to attend and will miss this game.

After that Kansas game I couldn’t care less.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 6:44 am
by eagletx
So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:21 am
by HJS
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:43 am
by hansen
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


My predictions for Saturday:

1 BC will win this game but it will be close and frustrating at times. Fully expect that there will be a epic meltdown in the gameday thread after a hurry-up 3 and out or bad defensive stand.
2 Daz is safe regardless of whether or not he gets 8 wins. To think otherwise is to be naive.
3 AB will have 60% passing day with multiple TDs. Will also gain a ton of yards on the ground.

BC 38-34

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:10 am
by claver2010
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


do we have any assurance marty j won't be satisfied with another 7-5 season?

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:11 am
by innocentbystander
hansen {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


My predictions for Saturday:

1 BC will win this game but it will be close and frustrating at times. Fully expect that there will be a epic meltdown in the gameday thread after a hurry-up 3 and out or bad defensive stand.
2 Daz is safe regardless of whether or not he gets 8 wins. To think otherwise is to be naive.
3 AB will have 60% passing day with multiple TDs. Will also gain a ton of yards on the ground.

BC 38-34


I'm giving you 5 Karma Hansen. Since there is not much to be happy about, we need positive thinking here. You are keeping up the good fight.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:13 am
by eagle33
hansen {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


My predictions for Saturday:

1 BC will win this game but it will be close and frustrating at times. Fully expect that there will be a epic meltdown in the gameday thread after a hurry-up 3 and out or bad defensive stand.
2 Daz is safe regardless of whether or not he gets 8 wins. To think otherwise is to be naive.
3 AB will have 60% passing day with multiple TDs. Will also gain a ton of yards on the ground.

BC 38-34


Yes to game thread meltdown, no to everything else.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:21 am
by BC923
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


do we have any assurance marty j won't be satisfied with another 7-5 season?

I think he understands that he’ll have to improve the football program to get a real big job. I imagine the challenge for him is getting Leahy on board.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:33 am
by BCMurt09
BC923 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


do we have any assurance marty j won't be satisfied with another 7-5 season?

I think he understands that he’ll have to improve the football program to get a real big job. I imagine the challenge for him is getting Leahy on board.


At Rutgers he said to the crowd at the BC tailgate that he wants the team to be consistent Top 25 with a special year every so often. With any other coach, that would be this year with the ACC in a downturn. I think he knows that but it will come down to can he convince Leahy. That said, I had a conversation with someone from the University who claimed Marty and Leahy get along famously so who knows.

EDIT: I actually appreciated his honesty in that. No rah rah "competing every year for ACC Championships and the Final Four," but realistic goals that he knows are achievable and would make the fan base happy.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:45 am
by ATLeagle
I think the consistent Top 25 team with the special team (10-2) when the stars align is fair for BC. It was essentially how things worked from TOB to Jags to Spaz's early years. Addazio will never put together those special years. He doesn't coach that way.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 9:52 am
by HJS
BC923 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


do we have any assurance marty j won't be satisfied with another 7-5 season?

I think he understands that he’ll have to improve the football program to get a real big job. I imagine the challenge for him is getting Leahy on board.

Marty has been talking about 7-5 being fine most years, but that we have to "pop" for 9/10/11 every so often, and that he has been led to believe that this is the "pop" year. I believe that everyone (including Daz) fully expects a firing with a 6-6 record or worse.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:05 am
by innocentbystander
HJS {l Wrote}:
BC923 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


do we have any assurance marty j won't be satisfied with another 7-5 season?

I think he understands that he’ll have to improve the football program to get a real big job. I imagine the challenge for him is getting Leahy on board.

Marty has been talking about 7-5 being fine most years, but that we have to "pop" for 9/10/11 every so often, and that he has been led to believe that this is the "pop" year. I believe that everyone (including Daz) fully expects a firing with a 6-6 record or worse.


"Pop" year would be next year when AJ Dillon, AB, and most of the offensive and defensive lines, would be Seniors. This team is the 2006 team (in age) with far LESS talent.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:30 am
by MaxxPower325
innocentbystander {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
BC923 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


do we have any assurance marty j won't be satisfied with another 7-5 season?

I think he understands that he’ll have to improve the football program to get a real big job. I imagine the challenge for him is getting Leahy on board.

Marty has been talking about 7-5 being fine most years, but that we have to "pop" for 9/10/11 every so often, and that he has been led to believe that this is the "pop" year. I believe that everyone (including Daz) fully expects a firing with a 6-6 record or worse.


"Pop" year would be next year when AJ Dillon, AB, and most of the offensive and defensive lines, would be Seniors. This team is the 2006 team (in age) with far LESS talent.


Based solely on talent, last year should have been the year. That said, the ACC this year is clearly Clemson and everyone else. VA and Syracuse were the pre-season darlings, but both look very average thus far. I don’t see us as heavy underdogs against anyone else: every game is legit winnable. So hopefully we win...half of them?

Wasted opportunity this year for certain. Next year could be exciting, though I doubt Dillon sticks around. With his perceived limitations at the next level the last thing he needs is more wear & tear.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:52 am
by claver2010
innocentbystander {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
BC923 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


do we have any assurance marty j won't be satisfied with another 7-5 season?

I think he understands that he’ll have to improve the football program to get a real big job. I imagine the challenge for him is getting Leahy on board.

Marty has been talking about 7-5 being fine most years, but that we have to "pop" for 9/10/11 every so often, and that he has been led to believe that this is the "pop" year. I believe that everyone (including Daz) fully expects a firing with a 6-6 record or worse.


"Pop" year would be next year when AJ Dillon, AB, and most of the offensive and defensive lines, would be Seniors. This team is the 2006 team (in age) with far LESS talent.


aj dillon is not sticking around, nor should he

edit: sorry tonto for quoting him

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 10:56 am
by hansen
innocentbystander {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
BC923 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


do we have any assurance marty j won't be satisfied with another 7-5 season?

I think he understands that he’ll have to improve the football program to get a real big job. I imagine the challenge for him is getting Leahy on board.

Marty has been talking about 7-5 being fine most years, but that we have to "pop" for 9/10/11 every so often, and that he has been led to believe that this is the "pop" year. I believe that everyone (including Daz) fully expects a firing with a 6-6 record or worse.


"Pop" year would be next year when AJ Dillon, AB, and most of the offensive and defensive lines, would be Seniors. This team is the 2006 team (in age) with far LESS talent.


Bailey will be more than fine as a replacement. Right now, I see the two as more or less interchangeable. Dillon doesn't seem to be the game changer he was in 2017.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:33 am
by Cadillac90
BCMurt09 {l Wrote}:
BC923 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


do we have any assurance marty j won't be satisfied with another 7-5 season?

I think he understands that he’ll have to improve the football program to get a real big job. I imagine the challenge for him is getting Leahy on board.


At Rutgers he said to the crowd at the BC tailgate that he wants the team to be consistent Top 25 with a special year every so often. With any other coach, that would be this year with the ACC in a downturn. I think he knows that but it will come down to can he convince Leahy. That said, I had a conversation with someone from the University who claimed Marty and Leahy get along famously so who knows.

EDIT: I actually appreciated his honesty in that. No rah rah "competing every year for ACC Championships and the Final Four," but realistic goals that he knows are achievable and would make the fan base happy.


I was there and heard the same thing. The wishful thinking in me heard 7 wins don't cut it (how can you be in top 25 with 7 wins?). That being said, I am more of a realist and 7 wins this year will keep the Heinz Hammer around for next year.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 11:38 am
by DavidGordonsFoot
Cadillac90 {l Wrote}:
BCMurt09 {l Wrote}:
BC923 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


do we have any assurance marty j won't be satisfied with another 7-5 season?

I think he understands that he’ll have to improve the football program to get a real big job. I imagine the challenge for him is getting Leahy on board.


At Rutgers he said to the crowd at the BC tailgate that he wants the team to be consistent Top 25 with a special year every so often. With any other coach, that would be this year with the ACC in a downturn. I think he knows that but it will come down to can he convince Leahy. That said, I had a conversation with someone from the University who claimed Marty and Leahy get along famously so who knows.

EDIT: I actually appreciated his honesty in that. No rah rah "competing every year for ACC Championships and the Final Four," but realistic goals that he knows are achievable and would make the fan base happy.


I was there and heard the same thing. The wishful thinking in me heard 7 wins don't cut it (how can you be in top 25 with 7 wins?). That being said, I am more of a realist and 7 wins this year will keep the Heinz Hammer around for next year.

Was this at the Alumni Association tailgate or the Gridiron Club tailgate?

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:44 pm
by twballgame9
innocentbystander {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
BC923 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


do we have any assurance marty j won't be satisfied with another 7-5 season?

I think he understands that he’ll have to improve the football program to get a real big job. I imagine the challenge for him is getting Leahy on board.

Marty has been talking about 7-5 being fine most years, but that we have to "pop" for 9/10/11 every so often, and that he has been led to believe that this is the "pop" year. I believe that everyone (including Daz) fully expects a firing with a 6-6 record or worse.


"Pop" year would be next year when AJ Dillon, AB, and most of the offensive and defensive lines, would be Seniors. This team is the 2006 team (in age) with far LESS talent.


Only a matter of time until stupid repeats itself. Stars are coming soon.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 3:43 pm
by mod6A
i think we win,

BC24, wake 17

:whalepants

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:00 pm
by BCEagles25
I’m of the belief the best team Wake has played is Utah State. I’m not completely sold on Wake until they play an ACC team on the road - we’re the guinea pig, so let’s see. Our secondary is bad and their passing offense is good so I’ll say:

Wake 34, BC 24

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:18 pm
by eagletx
innocentbystander {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
BC923 {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:
HJS {l Wrote}:
eagletx {l Wrote}:So, I get the impression that unlike preseason predictions, a throttling at the hands of Wake should it happen won 't come as a big surprise, and won't appreciably affect Addazio's job security??

Daz is in must-win territory from here on out. With zero-chance games against Clemson and ND and games against teams who will be heavy favorites in NCS and Pitt... his path to 8 wins all but disappears with any other loss. So, a close loss or a throttling won't make much of a difference. All that a throttling would show is that Daz has lost the team.


do we have any assurance marty j won't be satisfied with another 7-5 season?

I think he understands that he’ll have to improve the football program to get a real big job. I imagine the challenge for him is getting Leahy on board.

Marty has been talking about 7-5 being fine most years, but that we have to "pop" for 9/10/11 every so often, and that he has been led to believe that this is the "pop" year. I believe that everyone (including Daz) fully expects a firing with a 6-6 record or worse.


"Pop" year would be next year when AJ Dillon, AB, and most of the offensive and defensive lines, would be Seniors. This team is the 2006 team (in age) with far LESS talent.


Funny how the " pop" year ( I guess since a one and done is now the acceptable standard???) keeps sliding to the right on the time line....Dazzler used to talk year 5 when BC would compete for ACC eminence; then it was gonna be last year (year 6) with the talent and experience; apparently, year 7 is slipping away, so now lets all look forward to year 8 as the "pop" year...comical! I guess baseless hope springs eternal.

Re: Wake Forest weak

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 5:42 pm
by tallsy
Daz is safe regardless of whether or not he gets 8 wins. To think otherwise is to be naive.


I'm normally a pessimist but no way Daz survives 3-9 or 4-8. 5-7 is the big question mark, and of course, that's what we'll wind up.