EagleOutsider.com

DomingoOrtiz {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

As far as the filing of the anticipatory lawsuit to affirm the arbitrator's ruling, (a) I think they had to do it within 30 days anyway, .

That makes it less dicky.

That's the deadline for challenging or affirming awards in MA (I assume it is a uniform provision) in the absence of new evidence or fraud.

EDIT - looks like the FAA is one year for confirmation. Challenges are 30 days in MA. 3 months under the FAA.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:On a side note, this Lester Munson love note to Roger Goodell is a 10/10 on the unintentional comedy scale: http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13332578/new-england-patriots-quarterback-tom-brady-nflpa-likely-come-short-court-challenge-roger-goodell-decision

Goodell produced a decision on Brady that is brilliantly reasoned, meticulously detailed, and well-written ... Goodell answered each one of them in exquisite and persuasive detail in his 20-page opinion ... Goodell, in a brilliant passage in his masterly opinion

Sounds like the cover of a DVD

Maybe Munson should stop blowing Roger and worry about getting reinstated to the Illinois bar.

Regardless of whether or not he's innocent I give up on the NFL. This shit is just annoying at this point.

I sincerely doubt he is actually innocent. They just won't be able to prove it.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:I sincerely doubt he is actually innocent. They just won't be able to prove it.

This all has the feel of Armstrong, Bonds, ARod and Clemens. All historically great athletes who lost the incredible amount of respect they earned throughout their long careers by obtusely failing to admit the smallest transgressions. Ultimately, they wrongly believed that the court of public opinion has the same evidentiary burden as a criminal one.

Brady is toast. Unless the Judge goes full retard. No halfway decent Judge is going to want to interject themselves into the process. I was clerking in the SDNY when Pat Ewing was suspended by Stern for inadvertently taking a step off the bench during the brawl (Ewing had actually taken a step away from where the fight was occuring). Stern's ruling was idiotic, disproportionate and entirely the product of open and notorious animus against the Knicks and Jed Rakoff (who loves to interject himself into shit like this) wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Also, Munson is a fucking dolt and Goodell's decision wasn't brilliant, but it didn't need to be. The Patriots lost here the minute they didn't push Eli Manning's Bitch in front of a microphone to sheepishly apologize and say everyone does it.

Patriots should have never dropped the appeal of their own punishment.

Dick Rosenthal {l Wrote}:Brady is toast. Unless the Judge goes full retard. No halfway decent Judge is going to want to interject themselves into the process. I was clerking in the SDNY when Pat Ewing was suspended by Stern for inadvertently taking a step off the bench during the brawl (Ewing had actually taken a step away from where the fight was occuring). Stern's ruling was idiotic, disproportionate and entirely the product of open and notorious animus against the Knicks and Jed Rakoff (who loves to interject himself into shit like this) wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Also, Munson is a fucking dolt and Goodell's decision wasn't brilliant, but it didn't need to be. The Patriots lost here the minute they didn't push Eli Manning's Bitch in front of a microphone to sheepishly apologize and say everyone does it.

Those aren't even mildly analogous outside of the fact a commissioner handed down a suspension to a player.

Dick Rosenthal {l Wrote}:Brady is toast. Unless the Judge goes full retard. No halfway decent Judge is going to want to interject themselves into the process. I was clerking in the SDNY when Pat Ewing was suspended by Stern for inadvertently taking a step off the bench during the brawl (Ewing had actually taken a step away from where the fight was occuring). Stern's ruling was idiotic, disproportionate and entirely the product of open and notorious animus against the Knicks and Jed Rakoff (who loves to interject himself into shit like this) wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Also, Munson is a fucking dolt and Goodell's decision wasn't brilliant, but it didn't need to be. The Patriots lost here the minute they didn't push Eli Manning's Bitch in front of a microphone to sheepishly apologize and say everyone does it.

I agree with your last sentence, always have. Also agree with your second to last sentence. I do, however, think that a federal judge is going to have a field day with this, just like the last few times Goodell has overreached. Adrian Peterson and Jonathan Vilma send their regards.

I'm under the impression that judges don't intervene in arbitration cases -- with the exception of the judge in MN who took on the Adrian petersons case -- for fear of being inundated with a docket full of arbitrator cases. Is this correct in general?

hansen {l Wrote}:I'm under the impression that judges don't intervene in arbitration cases -- with the exception of the judge in MN who took on the Adrian petersons case -- for fear of being inundated with a docket full of arbitrator cases. Is this correct in general?

In normal arbitrations with neutral arbitrators that don't exceed their authority, absolutely, Lester Munson.

It's not intervention, however. They have jurisdiction over all arbitrations under the FAA. They are just reluctant to disturb awards properly rendered.

Teddy, do you think that Brady's case holds water based on precedent? I know you aren't versed in the cba etc. I'm essentially asking, do we have a chance here?

deadspin.com/tom-brady-and-the-nflpa-sue-the-nfl-in-federal-court-ov-1720971303

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

Dick Rosenthal {l Wrote}:Brady is toast. Unless the Judge goes full retard. No halfway decent Judge is going to want to interject themselves into the process. I was clerking in the SDNY when Pat Ewing was suspended by Stern for inadvertently taking a step off the bench during the brawl (Ewing had actually taken a step away from where the fight was occuring). Stern's ruling was idiotic, disproportionate and entirely the product of open and notorious animus against the Knicks and Jed Rakoff (who loves to interject himself into shit like this) wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Also, Munson is a fucking dolt and Goodell's decision wasn't brilliant, but it didn't need to be. The Patriots lost here the minute they didn't push Eli Manning's Bitch in front of a microphone to sheepishly apologize and say everyone does it.

Those aren't even mildly analogous outside of the fact a commissioner handed down a suspension to a player.

Actually, they are. In each instance you had a commissioner who clearly over stepped their authority and delivered a draconian penalty for the violation of a competition related infraction.

The Peterson case isn't analagous. Vilma is interesting, but the sanction was far more severe.

If I am a federal judge--and I have clerked for three of them--I want nothing to do with this one. Brady is clearly a scumbag, and no matter how trivial, certainly cheated in a manner that impacted the competition on the field and then went to extraordinary lengths to cover up the cheating. Goodell is a dunce, but acted within the scope of his authority. And Bob Kraft should STFU and focus on trying to fuck the whore he shackled up with two minutes after he put his wife in the ground.

Is the granting of an injunction likely? What chance would you give Brady playing against the Steelers? (not altogether relevant: I have a feeling they meet in the playoffs)

Dick Rosenthal {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

Dick Rosenthal {l Wrote}:Brady is toast. Unless the Judge goes full retard. No halfway decent Judge is going to want to interject themselves into the process. I was clerking in the SDNY when Pat Ewing was suspended by Stern for inadvertently taking a step off the bench during the brawl (Ewing had actually taken a step away from where the fight was occuring). Stern's ruling was idiotic, disproportionate and entirely the product of open and notorious animus against the Knicks and Jed Rakoff (who loves to interject himself into shit like this) wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Also, Munson is a fucking dolt and Goodell's decision wasn't brilliant, but it didn't need to be. The Patriots lost here the minute they didn't push Eli Manning's Bitch in front of a microphone to sheepishly apologize and say everyone does it.

Those aren't even mildly analogous outside of the fact a commissioner handed down a suspension to a player.

Actually, they are. In each instance you had a commissioner who clearly over stepped their authority and delivered a draconian penalty for the violation of a competition related infraction.

The Peterson case isn't analagous. Vilma is interesting, but the sanction was far more severe.

If I am a federal judge--and I have clerked for three of them--I want nothing to do with this one. Brady is clearly a scumbag, and no matter how trivial, certainly cheated in a manner that impacted the competition on the field and then went to extraordinary lengths to cover up the cheating. Goodell is a dunce, but acted within the scope of his authority. And Bob Kraft should STFU and focus on trying to fuck the whore he shackled up with two minutes after he put his wife in the ground.

Overstepped their bounds in your opinion. But there is precedence and a definitive, cut and dry rule in place that states what happens when you leave the bench area during an NBA scuffle. Ewing failed to adhere to that rule, as was directly evident by video review. It's a fairly shitty rule and arguably cost the Suns a title during the Nash era back but it's still a rule akin to how the Tuck Rule was pretty shitty but properly enforced. There is no clear cut, definitive evidence that anything outside of science occurred happened during the AFCCG despite what the leaky faucet known as the NFL Headquarters says. You're about as good at procrastinating about this as you were at the 2012 election (and yes, I voted Romney).

Except even Stern admitted post mortem the rule was meant to prevent players from approaching a fight and conceded that Ewing was clearly moving away. Moreover dipshit, the notion that one cannot be punished based on circumstantial evidence alone is belied by both law and the CBA. You are actually less intelligent than Easterbrook, which is amazing.

How many games was the GM suspended who texted the coach during the game?

There's circumstantial evidence and then there's bald speculation. Regardless, however this decision won't be overturned on sufficiency of the evidence.

Dick Rosenthal {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

Dick Rosenthal {l Wrote}:Brady is toast. Unless the Judge goes full retard. No halfway decent Judge is going to want to interject themselves into the process. I was clerking in the SDNY when Pat Ewing was suspended by Stern for inadvertently taking a step off the bench during the brawl (Ewing had actually taken a step away from where the fight was occuring). Stern's ruling was idiotic, disproportionate and entirely the product of open and notorious animus against the Knicks and Jed Rakoff (who loves to interject himself into shit like this) wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

Also, Munson is a fucking dolt and Goodell's decision wasn't brilliant, but it didn't need to be. The Patriots lost here the minute they didn't push Eli Manning's Bitch in front of a microphone to sheepishly apologize and say everyone does it.

Those aren't even mildly analogous outside of the fact a commissioner handed down a suspension to a player.

Actually, they are. In each instance you had a commissioner who clearly over stepped their authority and delivered a draconian penalty for the violation of a competition related infraction.

The Peterson case isn't analagous. Vilma is interesting, but the sanction was far more severe.

If I am a federal judge--and I have clerked for three of them--I want nothing to do with this one. Brady is clearly a scumbag, and no matter how trivial, certainly cheated in a manner that impacted the competition on the field and then went to extraordinary lengths to cover up the cheating. Goodell is a dunce, but acted within the scope of his authority. And Bob Kraft should STFU and focus on trying to fuck the whore he shackled up with two minutes after he put his wife in the ground.

I highly doubt a Federal Judge will be as clearly biased as you are, so let's see how this plays out.

If this had actually been an arbitration before a neutral and there wasn't negative precedent for the suspension, other than the ridiculously stupid attempt to justify by comparison to PED offenders, Brady would be toast. I would say he has an uphill battle regardless but that he is in a better position than most challenging arbitrations by a long shot.

Also, the attempt to justify the length of the suspension by comparison of speculated spoliation to use of masking agents was particularly stupid. That inartful and inapt analogy was likely written by some big law junior partner that never saw an athletic field.

Dick Rosenthal {l Wrote}: and no matter how trivial, certainly cheated in a manner that impacted the competition on the field and then went to extraordinary lengths to cover up the cheating. Goodell is a dunce, but acted within the scope of his authority.

Except that it had no impact whatsoever, and Brady actually performed better when the balls were reflated.

From the Wells report, the official stated that he used the higher reading gauge to measure the footballs prior to the game. If we accept the results of this gauge, then all of the footballs tested at halftime were within the expected PSI levels according to the ideal gas law, that is approximately 1.2 PSI lower, or 11.3 PSI. (There may have been one ball under, I can't remember)

From the Wells report, if we accept the results of the gauge that the official said he did not use (that the Wells report based their conclusion on), then the results average out to being .3 PDSI under expected readings, or 11.0 PSI. There is no way that anyone can say that this would effect the game.

So even if you accept the lower readings from the 2nd gauge, and you believe that Brady actually told McNally to go into the bathroom and let the air out, it results in an inconsequential ball violation. The penalty imposed is in no way even remotely proportional to other similar penalties levied on other teams.

Minnesota was caught heating balls during a game. It was on camera, there was no doubt about it, and they were issued a warning. No fine, no loss of first round draft picks, no suspensions, no asking for personal cell phones.

During a 2012 San Diego game, officials questioned a towel which a member of their equipment staff carried onto the field during a timeout. While the Chargers were not penalized for their use of a stickum, they were assessed a $20,000 fine which they appealed and won. There was no "independent investigation." No one was suspended. No players were fined. No cell phones were demanded and no club staff were interviewed.

This is but a couple of examples of how the NFL has handled ball violations in the past. The penalties that former Jets employee Roger Goodell has levied are so over the top that it is ridonkulous. One can only conclude that the rest of the NFL has taken this path because they have determined that they can't beat the Patriots on the field.

The factual issues are pretty irrelevant at this point. Brady isn't winning by picking apart the admittedly porous Wells report.

gallopingghost {l Wrote}:

Dick Rosenthal {l Wrote}: and no matter how trivial, certainly cheated in a manner that impacted the competition on the field and then went to extraordinary lengths to cover up the cheating. Goodell is a dunce, but acted within the scope of his authority.

Except that it had no impact whatsoever, and Brady actually performed better when the balls were reflated.

From the Wells report, the official stated that he used the higher reading gauge to measure the footballs prior to the game. If we accept the results of this gauge, then all of the footballs tested at halftime were within the expected PSI levels according to the ideal gas law, that is approximately 1.2 PSI lower, or 11.3 PSI. (There may have been one ball under, I can't remember)

From the Wells report, if we accept the results of the gauge that the official said he did not use (that the Wells report based their conclusion on), then the results average out to being .3 PDSI under expected readings, or 11.0 PSI. There is no way that anyone can say that this would effect the game.

So even if you accept the lower readings from the 2nd gauge, and you believe that Brady actually told McNally to go into the bathroom and let the air out, it results in an inconsequential ball violation. The penalty imposed is in no way even remotely proportional to other similar penalties levied on other teams.

Minnesota was caught heating balls during a game. It was on camera, there was no doubt about it, and they were issued a warning. No fine, no loss of first round draft picks, no suspensions, no asking for personal cell phones.

During a 2012 San Diego game, officials questioned a towel which a member of their equipment staff carried onto the field during a timeout. While the Chargers were not penalized for their use of a stickum, they were assessed a $20,000 fine which they appealed and won. There was no "independent investigation." No one was suspended. No players were fined. No cell phones were demanded and no club staff were interviewed.

This is but a couple of examples of how the NFL has handled ball violations in the past. The penalties that former Jets employee Roger Goodell has levied are so over the top that it is ridonkulous. One can only conclude that the rest of the NFL has taken this path because they have determined that they can't beat the Patriots on the field.

I loved Goodell's explanation for the Minnesota situation, "oh that was just ballboys doing that, there was no evidence of any player knowing anything about that...", then goes on to affirm Well's/Pash's point that McNally would never have deflated footballs on his own... Brady had to know about it.

Dick Rosenthal {l Wrote}:Except even Stern admitted post mortem the rule was meant to prevent players from approaching a fight and conceded that Ewing was clearly moving away. Moreover dipshit, the notion that one cannot be punished based on circumstantial evidence alone is belied by both law and the CBA. You are actually less intelligent than Easterbrook, which is amazing.

I don't know why you have such a hard-on for the Ewing case but Stern didn't overstep anything. He admitted the rule sucked but he applied it to the letter of the law because it was black and white. The rule for tampering with footballs is (or at least was before the NFL admitted earlier in the week they used to not give a fuck about this by putting rules in place to actually enforce the rule) "including, but not limited to, a fine of $25,000". The "but not limited to" is the gray area Goodell is working in that Stern did not have with the leaving the bench area during a kerfuffle rule. There's also the matter of precedence and consistent application of the rule, where you can point to similar situations to Ewing like when Jalen Rose got suspended and the aforementioned Suns one.

And I never said you can't be convicted over circumstantial evidence. As teddy noted, I implied the circumstantial evidence is quite weak in this case, which I believe. You have a differing opinion. So be it. Regardless, you always have and always will continue to be king of the strawman.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:The rule for tampering with footballs is (or at least was before the NFL admitted earlier in the week they used to not give a fuck about this by putting rules in place to actually enforce the rule) "including, but not limited to, a fine of $25,000".

Not just tampering, Obstruction.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:The rule for tampering with footballs is (or at least was before the NFL admitted earlier in the week they used to not give a fuck about this by putting rules in place to actually enforce the rule) "including, but not limited to, a fine of $25,000".

Not just tampering, Obstruction.

Obstruction is a false pretense justification based on a shitty analogy to increased suspensions for using masking agents. There's no requirement that he had to give the league jack shit, so he can't be obstructing shit. Players are required to give the league piss.

Well that wasn't in MN for too long.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/ ... story.html

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Obstruction is a false pretense justification based on a shitty analogy to increased suspensions for using masking agents. There's no requirement that he had to give the league jack shit, so he can't be obstructing shit. Players are required to give the league piss.

I think you're getting too excited about the analogy to PEDs, which is likely no more than a throw away argument adding one more level of distinction between these facts and Doty's recent oversteps.

I assume you're not suggesting that there is no requirement to cooperate with the investigation?

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Obstruction is a false pretense justification based on a shitty analogy to increased suspensions for using masking agents. There's no requirement that he had to give the league jack shit, so he can't be obstructing shit. Players are required to give the league piss.

I think you're getting too excited about the analogy to PEDs, which is likely no more than a throw away argument adding one more level of distinction between these facts and Doty's recent oversteps.

I assume you're not suggesting that there is no requirement to cooperate with the investigation?

He cooperated with the investigation. There's no requirement that he turn over any physical evidence or his phone, and he'd be a moron to do so. Wells didn't even ask for the phone. And you say this as if the union would have let him do it.

The PED argument was the only substantive justification for the length of the suspension or the idea that a player can be arbitrarily suspended further for a contrived "lack of cooperation."

Laughed out loud at the "Doty's oversteps" comment. Good work if you were trying to achieve irony, bomber approved.