can we talk sox here for a second?

[flyingelvii]

:slapfight

Not really a good one though. Summary: I believe that bad managing and epic choking, rather than statistics, are to blame for epically bad managing and choking, so I must read O'Shaughnessy and call into EEI.

I know you are baiting here but...

You claim A-Gon underperformed when he hit .318 with a .977 Ops, 4 HR and 17 RBI in September. Projecting that out to 162 games, that's 25 HR and 106 RBI. In reality, he hit .338 with a .958 OPS, 27 HR and 117 RBI for the year. Please, please explain to me why that is well below his performance levels.

With regards to the clutch hits point, imperfect data and all, but he hit .337 with a .924 OPS, 4 HR and 83 RBI with RISP and .303 with an .861 OPS, 2 HR and 29 RBI in 66 AB with RSIP and 2-outs. He's also at his best when in a one-run game. Go figure. Trying to find inning-by-inning splits but, yeah, you're wrong.

And I've read that sentence about 10 times and I still have no idea what it means. You presented an argument based of feeling. I called it out based on what actually happened. You wrote an incoherent sentence about...something.

Edit: Hooray! Found more split numbers and they all confirm basically the same thing I was pointing out above. Sorry I couldn't watch every game. When that happens you have to rely on what you have on hand. What we have on hand is a bunch of info that says Adrian Gonzalez is a pretty consistent hitter in nearly every situation. In case you want to look, here ya go: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=gonzaad01&year=&t=b#clutc

Jeez, elvii, I'm surprised you're able to keep up these stat projections between all the japanese zimas.

The radiation keeps me alert.

[twballgame9]

As far as the IP goes, if a guy throws 35 pitches in one inning, and another throws 12 pitches over 2 innings, did the guy with 2 IP get more or less work?

No shit. We don't have those numbers to my knowledge. So I move to the next best thing. And theoretically, if a guy is taking 20 pitches to get out of an inning he's not going to be a 7th, 8th or 9th guy. Gotta make some assumptions when working with incomplete data here big guy.

I don't have incomplete data. I watched almost every game through July. Bard throws a ton of pitches in his innings, and he gets up almost every game.

[twballgame9]

:slapfight

Not really a good one though. Summary: I believe that bad managing and epic choking, rather than statistics, are to blame for epically bad managing and choking, so I must read O'Shaughnessy and call into EEI.

I know you are baiting here but...

You claim A-Gon underperformed when he hit .318 with a .977 Ops, 4 HR and 17 RBI in September. Projecting that out to 162 games, that's 25 HR and 106 RBI. In reality, he hit .338 with a .958 OPS, 27 HR and 117 RBI for the year. Please, please explain to me why that is well below his performance levels.

With regards to the clutch hits point, imperfect data and all, but he hit .337 with a .924 OPS, 4 HR and 83 RBI with RISP and .303 with an .861 OPS, 2 HR and 29 RBI in 66 AB with RSIP and 2-outs. He's also at his best when in a one-run game. Go figure. Trying to find inning-by-inning splits but, yeah, you're wrong.

And I've read that sentence about 10 times and I still have no idea what it means. You presented an argument based of feeling. I called it out based on what actually happened. You wrote an incoherent sentence about...something.

Edit: Hooray! Found more split numbers and they all confirm basically the same thing I was pointing out above. Sorry I couldn't watch every game. When that happens you have to rely on what you have on hand. What we have on hand is a bunch of info that says Adrian Gonzalez is a pretty consistent hitter in nearly every situation. In case you want to look, here ya go: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=gonzaad01&year=&t=b#clutc

I can't remember an important hit by Adrian Gonzalez in the past 2-3 months. And he got 5 of his 9 HRs in August and September in like 8 ABs. He was on fire for about 3 games there.

[EagleNYC]

:slapfight

Not really a good one though. Summary: I believe that bad managing and epic choking, rather than statistics, are to blame for epically bad managing and choking, so I must read O'Shaughnessy and call into EEI.

I know you are baiting here but...

You claim A-Gon underperformed when he hit .318 with a .977 Ops, 4 HR and 17 RBI in September. Projecting that out to 162 games, that's 25 HR and 106 RBI. In reality, he hit .338 with a .958 OPS, 27 HR and 117 RBI for the year. Please, please explain to me why that is well below his performance levels.

With regards to the clutch hits point, imperfect data and all, but he hit .337 with a .924 OPS, 4 HR and 83 RBI with RISP and .303 with an .861 OPS, 2 HR and 29 RBI in 66 AB with RSIP and 2-outs. He's also at his best when in a one-run game. Go figure. Trying to find inning-by-inning splits but, yeah, you're wrong.

And I've read that sentence about 10 times and I still have no idea what it means. You presented an argument based of feeling. I called it out based on what actually happened. You wrote an incoherent sentence about...something.

Edit: Hooray! Found more split numbers and they all confirm basically the same thing I was pointing out above. Sorry I couldn't watch every game. When that happens you have to rely on what you have on hand. What we have on hand is a bunch of info that says Adrian Gonzalez is a pretty consistent hitter in nearly every situation. In case you want to look, here ya go: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=gonzaad01&year=&t=b#clutc

I can't remember an important hit by Adrian Gonzalez in the past 2-3 months. And he got 5 of his 9 HRs in August and September in like 8 ABs. He was on fire for about 3 games there.

Good memory. Check our from August 1 on, noting an explosion from 8/23 to 8/25, then 8/26 on.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?id=gonzaad01&t=b&year=

[ryrob]

so I must read O'Shaughnessy

I had to read it this morning. It was vintage Shaughnessy, like stepping back in time ten years. Midway through I was praying for a "Big Lug" reference just to wrap it all up, but he left us hanging.

Did you catch him in the booth with Heidi Watney during the rain delay? Talk about Beauty and the Beast...

No, but I heard that he said the TB game was ovah at 7-0. Pretty funny stuff. I pretty much watched the Braves game, because the Phillies were actually trying to win. 14th inning, and the starters were still in the game.

With AA and AAA players and Joe Blanton starting, but yes, still trying to win. It cannot be understated just how gutless the Braves are as well.

[ryrob]

I'm not a Sox-hater and actually root for them in the AL, but I have to say I'm looking forward to reading Tawmmy from Quincee's reaction on Kissing Suzy Kolber

Same. If you read the comments under the Tom Brady haircut article last night, there was some pretty solid hating going on.

[flyingelvii]

Looks like Teddy may get his wish. A bunch of reports hinting that Tito's leaving today, possibly to Chicago. Because anytime you can get rid of a two-time World Series manager, you just have to make the move.

[bignick33]

Looks like Teddy may get his wish. A bunch of reports hinting that Tito's leaving today, possibly to Chicago. Because anytime you can get rid of a two-time World Series manager, you just have to make the move.

Replacement candidates?

[pick6pedro]

Looks like Teddy may get his wish. A bunch of reports hinting that Tito's leaving today, possibly to Chicago. Because anytime you can get rid of a two-time World Series manager, you just have to make the move.

Replacement candidates?

[claver2010]

Looks like Teddy may get his wish. A bunch of reports hinting that Tito's leaving today, possibly to Chicago. Because anytime you can get rid of a two-time World Series manager, you just have to make the move.

Replacement candidates?

Moneyball

[Endless Mike]

Terry Francona must read these boards.

[claver2010]

Something I didn't realize until now, 2 out of 3 season ending blown saves for Papeldouche

[eepstein0]

As far as the IP goes, if a guy throws 35 pitches in one inning, and another throws 12 pitches over 2 innings, did the guy with 2 IP get more or less work?

No shit. We don't have those numbers to my knowledge. So I move to the next best thing. And theoretically, if a guy is taking 20 pitches to get out of an inning he's not going to be a 7th, 8th or 9th guy. Gotta make some assumptions when working with incomplete data here big guy.

I don't have incomplete data. I watched almost every game through July. Bard throws a ton of pitches in his innings, and he gets up almost every game.

You do realize the other options in the bullpen are Matt Albers, Franklin Moracles and a bunch of other shitty pitchers. Francona had absolutely no one else to turn to in that bullpen.

[EagleNYC]

As far as the IP goes, if a guy throws 35 pitches in one inning, and another throws 12 pitches over 2 innings, did the guy with 2 IP get more or less work?

No shit. We don't have those numbers to my knowledge. So I move to the next best thing. And theoretically, if a guy is taking 20 pitches to get out of an inning he's not going to be a 7th, 8th or 9th guy. Gotta make some assumptions when working with incomplete data here big guy.

I don't have incomplete data. I watched almost every game through July. Bard throws a ton of pitches in his innings, and he gets up almost every game.

You do realize the other options in the bullpen are Matt Albers, Franklin Moracles and a bunch of other shitty pitchers. Francona had absolutely no one else to turn to in that bullpen.

I think his point still stands. While it's true that the pen was flamable outside of Papelbon, Bard and Aceves, if you ride Bard all year he's more likely to flame out. Torre did this consistently with Proctor, Tanyan Sturtze and others, and it was short sighted. You end up trading possible wins in May-July for likely losses thereafter, including the post season.

*Edit: I still think they should keep Tito because I don't think there is someone better for this team next year. It appears this will not happen, however.

[twballgame9]

Looks like Teddy may get his wish. A bunch of reports hinting that Tito's leaving today, possibly to Chicago. Because anytime you can get rid of a two-time World Series manager, you just have to make the move.

So you keep a manager because he won the world series in the past? Doesn't matter whether he is doing a good job? Or is your premise that winning the world series with the second highest payroll in baseball means that you are de facto a good manager?

[bignick33]

T, what replacement candidates do you favor?

[pick6pedro]

Whoever signed Renteria, Clement, Lackey, Drew, Lugo, Dice-K, Crawford, Gagne is definitely the guy who deserves to stay.

[twballgame9]

Whoever signed Renteria, Clement, Lackey, Drew, Lugo, Dice-K, Crawford, Gagne is definitely the guy who deserves to stay.

Very true. Overlooked in all of this is that Henry's cash covers up a ton of GM mistakes and the fact that despite unlimited resources, Theo can't assemble a mediocre bullpen.

[bignick33]

Whoever signed Renteria, Clement, Lackey, Drew, Lugo, Dice-K, Crawford, Gagne is definitely the guy who deserves to stay.

Very true. Overlooked in all of this is that Henry's cash covers up a ton of GM mistakes and the fact that despite unlimited resources, Theo can't assemble a mediocre bullpen.

And, it's not even for lack of trying, which makes the weakness even more glaring.

[twballgame9]

T, what replacement candidates do you favor?

My number one of reasonable candidates would be Farrell, but I would be surprised if they call him. I'd also make a call to Tony Pena, if the Yankees will let him talk.

B-list guys include DeMarlo Hale, Pete Mackanin. And I am not adverse to the Schilling rumors.

My #1 guy from the pipedream list would be Gardenhire.

Not a huge fan of Valentine, and if they hire Torre, I am rooting for the Orioles.

[twballgame9]

T, what replacement candidates do you favor?

My number one of reasonable candidates would be Farrell, but I would be surprised if they call him. I'd also make a call to Tony Pena, if the Yankees will let him talk.

B-list guys include DeMarlo Hale, Pete Mackanin. And I am not adverse to the Schilling rumors.

My #1 guy from the pipedream list would be Gardenhire.

Not a huge fan of Valentine, and if they hire Torre, I am rooting for the Orioles.

Also like Dave Martinez of the names I have heard.

[bignick33]

My number one of reasonable candidates would be Farrell, but I would be surprised if they call him. I'd also make a call to Tony Pena, if the Yankees will let him talk.

You nailed my top two hopefuls. I've always liked Pena.

B-list guys include DeMarlo Hale, Pete Mackanin.

Both are impressive, but neither has extensive Big League managing experience (I'm not counting the < 1/2 season that Mackanin interim-managed in Cinci). Both have extensive minor-league coaching experience, but it's not the same. That being said, Hale should get an interview at the very least, because he has been an effective and loyal member of the organization for years.

And I am not adverse to the Schilling rumors.

I am. He's sharp, but he's an egomanical prick. He's also a loud-mouth. Even though he fashions himself an old-school baseball guy, I have a hard time seeing him biting his tongue when it needs to be bit (something that Tito was exceptionally good during the Manny-era) both internally and externally.

My #1 guy from the pipedream list would be Gardenhire.

Sign me up. Worth putting in a call to Gardy.

Not a huge fan of Valentine, and if they hire Torre, I am rooting for the Orioles.

Valentine is hilarious in the same way that a clown is hilarious. Torre obviously isn't as bad as you say he is, but I doubt he would ever come, so it's a moot point.

Also like Dave Martinez of the names I have heard.

I'm obviously familiar with him as a long-time player, but I know very little of him as a coach. I can't imagine he has much experience.

[pick6pedro]

Whoever signed Renteria, Clement, Lackey, Drew, Lugo, Dice-K, Crawford, Gagne is definitely the guy who deserves to stay.

Very true. Overlooked in all of this is that Henry's cash covers up a ton of GM mistakes and the fact that despite unlimited resources, Theo can't assemble a mediocre bullpen.

And, it's not even for lack of trying, which makes the weakness even more glaring.

He shoulda stuck with the Costanza move and stayed resigned.

[bignick33]

Whoever signed Renteria, Clement, Lackey, Drew, Lugo, Dice-K, Crawford, Gagne is definitely the guy who deserves to stay.

Very true. Overlooked in all of this is that Henry's cash covers up a ton of GM mistakes and the fact that despite unlimited resources, Theo can't assemble a mediocre bullpen.

And, it's not even for lack of trying, which makes the weakness even more glaring.

He shoulda stuck with the Costanza move and stayed resigned.

He won another World Series after the slapfight with Lucky.

[twballgame9]

My number one of reasonable candidates would be Farrell, but I would be surprised if they call him. I'd also make a call to Tony Pena, if the Yankees will let him talk.

You nailed my top two hopefuls. I've always liked Pena.

B-list guys include DeMarlo Hale, Pete Mackanin.

Both are impressive, but neither has extensive Big League managing experience (I'm not counting the < 1/2 season that Mackanin interim-managed in Cinci). Both have extensive minor-league coaching experience, but it's not the same. That being said, Hale should get an interview at the very least, because he has been an effective and loyal member of the organization for years.

And I am not adverse to the Schilling rumors.

I am. He's sharp, but he's an egomanical prick. He's also a loud-mouth. Even though he fashions himself an old-school baseball guy, I have a hard time seeing him biting his tongue when it needs to be bit (something that Tito was exceptionally good during the Manny-era) both internally and externally.

My #1 guy from the pipedream list would be Gardenhire.

Sign me up. Worth putting in a call to Gardy.

Not a huge fan of Valentine, and if they hire Torre, I am rooting for the Orioles.

Valentine is hilarious in the same way that a clown is hilarious. Torre obviously isn't as bad as you say he is, but I doubt he would ever come, so it's a moot point.

Also like Dave Martinez of the names I have heard.

I'm obviously familiar with him as a long-time player, but I know very little of him as a coach. I can't imagine he has much experience.

I hear you on Schilling, but I think he would tone it down with the players. I don't think he is a candidate, but if he were named manager I would worry more about him being buddies with the guys he played with.

Martinez falls in the same category with Hale. He's been a bench coach in Tampa for a while now.

[bignick33]

I hear you on Schilling, but I think he would tone it down with the players. I don't think he is a candidate, but if he were named manager I would worry more about him being buddies with the guys he played with.

Martinez falls in the same category with Hale. He's been a bench coach in Tampa for a while now.

Re Schilling, you couldn't possibly have Wakefield in mind, could you? That would be a disaster. Speaking of which, I wonder if him and/or Varitek will be back. I'll put it at 25% for Wake and 50% for the Cap'n.

The difference between Hale and Martinez is that I believe Hale had extensive minor league managing experience before he was hired as 3B coach with the Sox.

[twballgame9]

I hear you on Schilling, but I think he would tone it down with the players. I don't think he is a candidate, but if he were named manager I would worry more about him being buddies with the guys he played with.

Martinez falls in the same category with Hale. He's been a bench coach in Tampa for a while now.

Re Schilling, you couldn't possibly have Wakefield in mind, could you? That would be a disaster. Speaking of which, I wonder if him and/or Varitek will be back. I'll put it at 25% for Wake and 50% for the Cap'n.

The difference between Hale and Martinez is that I believe Hale had extensive minor league managing experience before he was hired as 3B coach with the Sox.

I wasn't considering Wake as a manager, and no, I was talking about Schilling's professed man love for "Petey" and "Josh" and "Youk" and "Papi".

I don't see Wake coming back. They shouldn't bring back Varitek, the giant fork in his back slows down his bat.

The other difference between Martinez and Hale is that there is no chance that they don't completely clean house.

[bignick33]

I hear you on Schilling, but I think he would tone it down with the players. I don't think he is a candidate, but if he were named manager I would worry more about him being buddies with the guys he played with.

Martinez falls in the same category with Hale. He's been a bench coach in Tampa for a while now.

Re Schilling, you couldn't possibly have Wakefield in mind, could you? That would be a disaster. Speaking of which, I wonder if him and/or Varitek will be back. I'll put it at 25% for Wake and 50% for the Cap'n.

The difference between Hale and Martinez is that I believe Hale had extensive minor league managing experience before he was hired as 3B coach with the Sox.

I wasn't considering Wake as a manager, and no, I was talking about Schilling's professed man love for "Petey" and "Josh" and "Youk" and "Papi".

I don't see Wake coming back. They shouldn't bring back Varitek, the giant fork in his back slows down his bat.

The other difference between Martinez and Hale is that there is no chance that they don't completely clean house.

It's over for Wake, or at least it should be. The thing about Tek is that, while he is broken down physically, he is still not worse than your average MLB backup catcher. In fact, he's probably a bit better. Unless you project Lavarnaway as a Big League catching prospect, Tek probably should be back (particularly if you buy into the whole intangibles with the pitching staff and leadership stuff).

[twballgame9]

Tek is an automatic out against anyone with a fastball over 88. He needs to start that slow ass swing before he gets to the batter's box.

[bignick33]

Tito is officially out. What do you guys make of the fact that ownership (and not Theo) are the voice behind the dismissal? Sorry that this the mobile link.

http://mobile.boston.com/art/35/sports/ ... fficial_fr