Divisional playoffs

[branchinator]

I think you need some new material, Hansen.

[hansen]

And Convict, I agree with you that the NL is an absolute joke. Was Jeff Fucking Weaver really a Game 1 starter in a playoff game? Really? Really? And he fucking won! Unbelievable. After the abortions I witnessed yesterday I think there needs to be an asterisk next to every Albert Pujols stat. He is an excellent player but he is playing against AAA competition. The Yankees, Red Sox and Angels should all be able to pile drive whatever team crawls out of the NL.

the cardinals were awful yesterday. they continued they're late season swoon. carpenter's performance was a huge letdown to say the least if not a total pounding. he gave up 4 earned in 5 innings and i think his whip was like almost 3. pujols was 0-3 but anytime there were men on base he was intentionally walked (twice).

they guy has gone at least .300-100-100-30 for basically 9 seasons playing gold-glove defense. i can't even comprehend how you can diminish those numbers. the guy has a 1.012 OPS in the postseason which includes 2 world series appearances.

You can diminish those numbers because he is playing against a league whose best pitchers are guys like Chris Carpenter. Enough said.

one bad game and the guy sucks? unbelievable. redsox fans are so damn fickle. i guess consistently losing those 86 years will do that to you.

* i respect you

One bad game? Seriously? Shall I go back and look at his stats when he used to pitch in the major leagues for Toronto? You are missing the point if you think it has anything to do with one bad game. Chris Carpenter is at best a 14-12, 4.35 pitcher if he pitched in the AL East.

I'd rather face Carpenter and Wainwright than Sabathia and Burnett, and I don't think much of the latter two as a playoff duo.

did you ever consider that perhaps he matured as a pitcher? or that tommy john surgery added a little extra life on his fastball? i'd give you his postseason stats but you apprently dont count NL games so here is his world series stats (not a big sample size but that's what happens when you discount a majority of the games):

2006 8 IP 0.00 ERA 3 hits 6 strikeouts 0 walks

is the average AL team better than the average NL team? yes. is the average AL player better than the average NL player? probably. but when you compare the best teams and the best players, the difference is negligible.

[twballgame9]

The three best pitching staffs on the playoffs are the Red Sox, Angels and Yankees. Then come the Phillies. Then it is not really worth talking about.

[hansen]

The three best pitching staffs on the playoffs are the Red Sox, Angels and Yankees. Then come the Phillies. Then it is not really worth talking about.

i'm not taking the bait.

but, fwiw, odds to win the world series:

yanks 3-2
cards 4-1
red sox 4-1

[twballgame9]

The three best pitching staffs on the playoffs are the Red Sox, Angels and Yankees. Then come the Phillies. Then it is not really worth talking about.

i'm not taking the bait.

but, fwiw, odds to win the world series:

yanks 3-2
cards 4-1
red sox 4-1

Not worth much. Pitching wins short series and Vegas always forgets that. Betting playoff baseball is somewhat risky, but much money can be made.

[angryty]

The Atlanta Braves beg to qualify your statement. Pitching wins a short series when all other things are equal. However, superior pitching can be consistently beaten by pretty good pitching backed up by a better line up--and therein is the problem for the Sox. Even if you want to give Beckett and Lester the benefit of the doubt despite getting clubbed like baby seals by the Yankees this year, one would have to be an innocent retardo level of stupid to deny that at the very least the pitching gap between the Yankees and Red Sox is very narrow. The same can't be said for the gap between the respective line ups. Hell, last years batting champ and MVP is clearly been outclassed by Robby Cano this year and Youk comes up short in comparison to the Yankees' 1b or 3b.

[branchinator]

The Atlanta Braves beg to qualify your statement. Pitching wins a short series when all other things are equal. However, superior pitching can be consistently beaten by pretty good pitching backed up by a better line up--and therein is the problem for the Sox. Even if you want to give Beckett and Lester the benefit of the doubt despite getting clubbed like baby seals by the Yankees this year, one would have to be an innocent retardo level of stupid to deny that at the very least the pitching gap between the Yankees and Red Sox is very narrow. The same can't be said for the gap between the respective line ups. Hell, last years batting champ and MVP is clearly been outclassed by Robby Cano this year and Youk comes up short in comparison to the Yankees' 1b or 3b.

I will agree that the pitching between the Red Sox and Yankees is pretty close. The Yankees have hit Beckett and Lester well this year. On the other hand, the Sox have murdered Burnett, have hit Joba well except for one start, and have had mixed results against Pettitte. CC has pitched well against them all year. Basically, starting pitching is pretty close. In the bullpen, Papelbon and Rivera have been consistently good. Once you get past them, it's pretty much a crapshoot.

As for the lineups, the difference is not as great as it seems. For the whole season, the Yankees scored 43 more runs, which is about 0.25 more runs per game than the Sox. Again, the Sox don't have the home run hitters but there aren't many easy outs, particularly with the addition of Victor Martinez, which takes Varitek's useless ass out of the lineup most days. And Youkilis actually had a higher OPS than both Teixeira and A-Rod so it's not like he can't match their production. But the key for the Sox will be the production of Drew, Lowell, and Ortiz. They know what they're going to get from everyone else.

[buconvict]

Jimmy Key

Jimmy Key, what's he, like 45? I could hit him.


Weaver didn't start, the immortal Randy Wolf did. And Hansen, the list of players who have gone from the NL to the AL and failed is only matched by those players who sucked in the AL and have found new life in the NL. You realize that, I'm sure of it.

[hansen]

Jimmy Key

Jimmy Key, what's he, like 45? I could hit him.


Weaver didn't start, the immortal Randy Wolf did. And Hansen, the list of players who have gone from the NL to the AL and failed is only matched by those players who sucked in the AL and have found new life in the NL. You realize that, I'm sure of it.

coincidence

what do you present as your best examples... btw, i was reading something on Holliday about how he was batting .411 in his 10 games prior to coming to the NL. who's to say that he wouldnt have scorched AL pitching the rest of the season had he not stayed in oakland? plus his time in the AL was so short, i'm going to argue that it's not enough of a sample size.

i'd be interested to see the stats of AL to NL players... i don't doubt there would be slightly better performances in the NL but i think the delta would not be anywhere near what teddy and others are insinuating.

oh well, it's time for game 2 of the NLDS... hopefully wainwright and the cards can get their shxt together for this game.

go cards!!

[angryty]

Jimmy Key

Jimmy Key, what's he, like 45? I could hit him.


Weaver didn't start, the immortal Randy Wolf did. And Hansen, the list of players who have gone from the NL to the AL and failed is only matched by those players who sucked in the AL and have found new life in the NL. You realize that, I'm sure of it.

I realize that you are younger than me and not a Yankees fan, but if you were a sentient being and a sports fan in 1996 you will remember that Key and Cone were the anchors of the staff (Young Andy Pettite pitched brilliantly in game four of the WS). Key was lights out in the crucial Game 6 of the WS.

With respect to the AL v NL debate there is one trend that cannot be denied--aging pitchers who are done in the AL suddenly are rejuvenated when they move over to the NL (see Martinez, Pedro; Moyer, Jamie; and a dozen other examples--also note that Randy Johnson was absolutely useless during his last go round in the AL but is still a serviceable NL pitcher, you can even say the same for the steroid fueled greatness of Roger Clemens when he went from the Stros to his curtain call with Los Yanquis.

[eagle9903]

Jimmy Key

With respect to the AL v NL debate there is one trend that cannot be denied--aging pitchers who are done in the AL suddenly are rejuvenated when they move over to the NL (see Martinez, Pedro; Moyer, Jamie; and a dozen other examples--also note that Randy Johnson was absolutely useless during his last go round in the AL but is still a serviceable NL pitcher, you can even say the same for the steroid fueled greatness of Roger Clemens when he went from the Stros to his curtain call with Los Yanquis.

your far from wrong, but Pedro blew with the mets, and has had two or three decent starts with the Phillies after not playing . Moyer, I thought was still pitching ok with Seattle(could be very wrong memory is bad), but your point is absolutely correct, from a fan of a national league team(see carpenter, chris as mentioned above, and pavano, carl for a flip side of the argument .

[auggiebc]

I'm relieved it only took us 5 pages of this thread to agree on the obvious. Pitchers peform better in the NL than they do in the AL. Because of that DH thingy in one league and not in the other.

[hansen]

oh well, it's time for game 2 of the NLDS... hopefully wainwright and the cards can get their shxt together for this game.

go cards!!

[eagle9903]

oh well, it's time for game 2 of the NLDS... hopefully wainwright and the cards can get their shxt together for this game.

go cards!!

Wait, did your manager pitch both of his probable game 3 starters out of the bullpen today? if not, you are not as concerned as I.

[hansen]

oh well, it's time for game 2 of the NLDS... hopefully wainwright and the cards can get their shxt together for this game.

go cards!!

The only teams to rally from a 2-0 Division Series deficit are the 1995 Seattle Mariners, 1999 Boston Red Sox, 2001 New York Yankees, and 2003 Boston Red Sox.

that's just fxcking great.

[branchinator]

Jimmy Key

Jimmy Key, what's he, like 45? I could hit him.


Weaver didn't start, the immortal Randy Wolf did. And Hansen, the list of players who have gone from the NL to the AL and failed is only matched by those players who sucked in the AL and have found new life in the NL. You realize that, I'm sure of it.

I realize that you are younger than me and not a Yankees fan, but if you were a sentient being and a sports fan in 1996 you will remember that Key and Cone were the anchors of the staff (Young Andy Pettite pitched brilliantly in game four of the WS). Key was lights out in the crucial Game 6 of the WS.

With respect to the AL v NL debate there is one trend that cannot be denied--aging pitchers who are done in the AL suddenly are rejuvenated when they move over to the NL (see Martinez, Pedro; Moyer, Jamie; and a dozen other examples--also note that Randy Johnson was absolutely useless during his last go round in the AL but is still a serviceable NL pitcher, you can even say the same for the steroid fueled greatness of Roger Clemens when he went from the Stros to his curtain call with Los Yanquis.

Convict was actually referencing a pretty well-known Sportscenter commercial.

[twballgame9]

Wainwright looked great tonight. Whoops.

Vlad Guerrero is the most overrated player in baseball history. That is all. God he fucking sucks. Swing at another ball you fucking stiff.

I could get Vlad out.

[eagle9903]

Wainwright looked great tonight. Whoops.

Vlad Guerrero is the most overrated player in baseball history. That is all. God he fucking sucks. Swing at another ball you fucking stiff.

I could get Vlad out.

no, you're being ignorant he's a great player, that's ignorant

[RegalBCeagle]

When is John Lackey going to remember he's John Lackey against the Red Sox in the ALDS?

Clapsticks are fucking gay.

[ZBC2001]

Wainwright looked great tonight. Whoops.

Vlad Guerrero is the most overrated player in baseball history. That is all. God he fucking sucks. Swing at another ball you fucking stiff.

I could get Vlad out.

What a shit at bat.

[RegalBCeagle]

Lester's thrown 65 pitches through 4. He'd be in the low 50's or so if not for a squeeze by the homeplate ump on that great pitch against Hunter in the 3rd and a ridiculously horrible call by the shithead on the 1st base line. Sox bats need to wake up quickly.

[branchinator]

Sox bats + road game =

[twballgame9]

Sox bats + road game =

Afuckenmen. But god forbid Terry Douchebag bunts. Enter buconvict to discuss Moneyball shit.

[branchinator]

Sox bats + road game =

Afuckenmen. But god forbid Terry Douchebag bunts. Enter buconvict to discuss Moneyball shit.

I'd almost rather have Varitek in there. At least he strikes out whereas Lowell's sloth ass grounds into a DP every other at bat.

[twballgame9]

Sox bats + road game =

Afuckenmen. But god forbid Terry Douchebag bunts. Enter buconvict to discuss Moneyball shit.

I'd almost rather have Varitek in there. At least he strikes out whereas Lowell's sloth ass grounds into a DP every other at bat.

Wow that was a fucking meatball. This Angel team is cute, they are almost excited to have a lead for once.

[twballgame9]

Nothing like ending a an exciting inning like an at bat by that fucking stiff Guerrero. He's like the Varitek of right fielders.

[branchinator]

It still boggles my mind how pitchers consistently walk Abreu despite the fact that he....DOESN'T EVER FUCKING SWING. One mistake is all it takes. Beckett had better bring it or this series will be a short one.

[twballgame9]

It still boggles my mind how pitchers consistently walk Abreu despite the fact that he....DOESN'T EVER FUCKING SWING. One mistake is all it takes. Beckett had better bring it or this series will be a short one.

Meh. This game is far from over. John Lackey is, after all, John Lackey.

[auggiebc]

Torri Hunter is acting like he just won a general election or the world series.

[claver2010]

Scott Boras situated directly behind the catcher (pun intended), anything for facetime.