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twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:So Sawx/Gay Baseball Pr0n weirdos:

What's the outlook for Middlebrooks, in the middle of working out a trade, trying to gauge his value for 2013+?

He's going to be a superstar. .300/30/110 guy off the bat. Needs to work on plate discipline, but he can hit everything.

Think Ryan Braun, but with less power, better contact and can actually play 3rd. Legit 5 tools.

Alright, sold me on it.

Officially blowing up Madoff's Accountants

Pujols ($58), Lester ($31), Reyes ($25) for Weaver ($7) and Middlebrooks ($1)

If I'm done, I might as well kill it and build with keepers.

So my keepers next year will be:

Weaver -top 15 pitcher
Middlebrooks
Trumbo -points league he's huge
Dickey -maybe, we'll see how he continues
Vogelsong -consistent as possible, good 4

BigNick trades Josh Hamilton, Tex OF to Trade Proposer
Trade Proposer trades Aaron Hill, Ari 2B to BigNick
Trade Proposer trades Jay Bruce, Cin OF to BigNick
Trade Proposer trades Michael Young, Tex 1B to BigNick
Trade Proposer trades Jhonny Peralta, Det SS to BigNick
Trade Proposer trades Jonathan Papelbon, Phi RP to BigNick

bignick33 {l Wrote}:BigNick trades Josh Hamilton, Tex OF to Trade Proposer
Trade Proposer trades Aaron Hill, Ari 2B to BigNick
Trade Proposer trades Jay Bruce, Cin OF to BigNick
Trade Proposer trades Michael Young, Tex 1B to BigNick
Trade Proposer trades Jhonny Peralta, Det SS to BigNick
Trade Proposer trades Jonathan Papelbon, Phi RP to BigNick

Wow, big trade. Is that a keeper league?

Endless Mike {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:BigNick trades Josh Hamilton, Tex OF to Trade Proposer
Trade Proposer trades Aaron Hill, Ari 2B to BigNick
Trade Proposer trades Jay Bruce, Cin OF to BigNick
Trade Proposer trades Michael Young, Tex 1B to BigNick
Trade Proposer trades Jhonny Peralta, Det SS to BigNick
Trade Proposer trades Jonathan Papelbon, Phi RP to BigNick

Wow, big trade. Is that a keeper league?

I didn't do it--didn't even really consider it closely--because it was too many shitty players for a really good player. That said, I do strongly believe Hamilton is a sell high guy. He rarely stays healthy for an entire season. And, no, it's not a keeper league.

claver2010 {l Wrote}:Alright, sold me on it.

Officially blowing up Madoff's Accountants

Pujols ($58), Lester ($31), Reyes ($25) for Weaver ($7) and Middlebrooks ($1)

If I'm done, I might as well kill it and build with keepers.

So my keepers next year will be:

Weaver -top 15 pitcher
Middlebrooks
Trumbo -points league he's huge
Dickey -maybe, we'll see how he continues
Vogelsong -consistent as possible, good 4

That's a solid crew. We get 4 keepers at their salaries, and after 3 seasons they go up $5/year.

I am definitely keeping Giancarlo Stanton, who goes up to $6.

After him, I have some decisions to make. I could still trade for better keepers though since these guys aren't great.

Lance Lynn ($1)
Allen Craig ($1)
Dee Gordon ($15)
Jacoby Ellsbury ($23)
Hanley Ramirez ($26)
Alex Avila ($1)
Mike Aviles ($1)

Plus I've picked up guys like Norichika Aoki and Starling Marte. I also have Vogelsong at $1, so he may be an option since he's had another great season.

Crawford is hitting in the 2-hole tonight. What do we make of his prospects for the second half?

bignick33 {l Wrote}:Crawford is hitting in the 2-hole tonight. What do we make of his prospects for the second half?

He was picked up in my league a couple of weeks ago, wasn't worth the aggrivation.

Rumor is he is still seriously injured (beyond needing the surgery at year end) and won't last too long regardless.

claver2010 {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:Crawford is hitting in the 2-hole tonight. What do we make of his prospects for the second half?

He was picked up in my league a couple of weeks ago, wasn't worth the aggrivation.

Rumor is he is still seriously injured (beyond needing the surgery at year end) and won't last too long regardless.

Acknowledging that he very likely to get hurt again, I have heard that this injury will not be a problem for the rest of the season. I'm not picking him up, but I wouldn't let it stop you. I'd let the next injury stop you.

If you're just picking him off the waiver wire, you could do a lot worse. He might not turn out to be much but he could also be a potential lottery ticket. And, if not, you've likely let go of a very replaceable player.

Last night, Crawford was 1-3 with 2 runs. He will have chances for many RBIs and runs if he's consistently hitting in the 2-hole. However, with Ellsbury now back and Pedroia expected back later in the week, he could be instead hitting near the bottom of the order. That's something to monitor.

I traded Adam LaRoche for Alejandro de Aza. They're both at $1 but I figure de Aza has more keeper potential, and I could use his BA and steals more.

bignick33 {l Wrote}:Last night, Crawford was 1-3 with 2 runs. He will have chances for many RBIs and runs if he's consistently hitting in the 2-hole. However, with Ellsbury now back and Pedroia expected back later in the week, he could be instead hitting near the bottom of the order. That's something to monitor.

If Papi is out, Pedroia will hit 3. If he's not out, then Pedroia may still hit three if Crawford plays well.

Ellsbury
Crawford
Pedroia
Papi
AGonz
Ross
Salty
Middlebrooks
Aviles

I suppose you could move Crawford down and shift everyone up, but I think Bobby likes Ellsbury and Crawford 1-2. Frankly, I'd probably bat them:

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Ortiz
Middlebrooks
Gonzo
Salty
Ross
Crawford
Aviles

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:Last night, Crawford was 1-3 with 2 runs. He will have chances for many RBIs and runs if he's consistently hitting in the 2-hole. However, with Ellsbury now back and Pedroia expected back later in the week, he could be instead hitting near the bottom of the order. That's something to monitor.

If Papi is out, Pedroia will hit 3. If he's not out, then Pedroia may still hit three if Crawford plays well.

Ellsbury
Crawford
Pedroia
Papi
AGonz
Ross
Salty
Middlebrooks
Aviles

I suppose you could move Crawford down and shift everyone up, but I think Bobby likes Ellsbury and Crawford 1-2. Frankly, I'd probably bat them:

Ellsbury
Pedroia
Ortiz
Middlebrooks
Gonzo
Salty
Ross
Crawford
Aviles

If last night is at all indicative, V isn't adverse to batting a number of lefties consecutively. To some degree, it makes sense, because both Ortiz and Gonzo hit lefties well. That said, I'd still probably be more inclined to your lineup because 1) it's more balanced and 2) Middlebrooks can probably use the protection more than Gonzo (this is contingent on Middlebrooks continuing to slug at a high rate, of course).

FYI, this is the lineup tonight:

1. Jacoby Ellsbury, CF
2. Carl Crawford, LF
3. Daniel Nava, DH
4. Adrian Gonzalez, 1B
5. Will Middlebrooks, 3B
6. Jarrod Saltalamacchia, C
7. Ryan Sweeney, RF
8. Mike Aviles, SS
9. Pedro Ciriaco, 2B

I'm going tonight, going to boo Youk cause he's a dbag the pink hats won't know the difference.

I mean, he's a dbag that has the Jason Giambi disease of perpetually stepping out of the shower but he's also contributed to two WS (given not much in '04 aside from keeping Ramiro Mendoza off the field) so I think he plenty deserves to be cheered.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:I mean, he's a dbag that has the Jason Giambi disease of perpetually stepping out of the shower but he's also contributed to two WS (given not much in '04 aside from keeping Ramiro Mendoza off the field) so I think he plenty deserves to be cheered.

Youk is and always was the biggest douchebag in Red Sox history. And he barely played in 2004, that's revisionist history. Bill Mueller was the third baseman, and unlike Youk, is famous for actually having some huge hits in the 2004 playoffs. Youk was a fucking dick that did little to contribute to any world series.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:I mean, he's a dbag that has the Jason Giambi disease of perpetually stepping out of the shower but he's also contributed to two WS (given not much in '04 aside from keeping Ramiro Mendoza off the field) so I think he plenty deserves to be cheered.

Youk is and always was the biggest douchebag in Red Sox history. And he barely played in 2004, that's revisionist history. Bill Mueller was the third baseman, and unlike Youk, is famous for actually having some huge hits in the 2004 playoffs. Youk was a fucking dick that did little to contribute to any world series.

Youkilis & Papelbon are 2 of the biggest douches in baseball, the Sox were just winning so many people around here didn't notice.

Crawford update: last night he was 3-4 with 2 runs, an RBI, and 3 steals. If he's gonna be running a lot, I think that makes him a must-own even in 8-team leagues.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:I mean, he's a dbag that has the Jason Giambi disease of perpetually stepping out of the shower but he's also contributed to two WS (given not much in '04 aside from keeping Ramiro Mendoza off the field) so I think he plenty deserves to be cheered.

Youk is and always was the biggest douchebag in Red Sox history. And he barely played in 2004, that's revisionist history. Bill Mueller was the third baseman, and unlike Youk, is famous for actually having some huge hits in the 2004 playoffs. Youk was a fucking dick that did little to contribute to any world series.

No shit. Thanks for the history lesson. I was unaware of Bill Mueller because I was blinded by my infatuation with the Sox fifth reliever. And that final sentence is, well, just not true. Keep up the great work, though.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:I mean, he's a dbag that has the Jason Giambi disease of perpetually stepping out of the shower but he's also contributed to two WS (given not much in '04 aside from keeping Ramiro Mendoza off the field) so I think he plenty deserves to be cheered.

Youk is and always was the biggest douchebag in Red Sox history. And he barely played in 2004, that's revisionist history. Bill Mueller was the third baseman, and unlike Youk, is famous for actually having some huge hits in the 2004 playoffs. Youk was a fucking dick that did little to contribute to any world series.

No shit. Thanks for the history lesson. I was unaware of Bill Mueller because I was blinded by my infatuation with the Sox fifth reliever. And that final sentence is, well, just not true. Keep up the great work, though.

Yes, it is true. The guy was an overrated POS for most of his career that couldn't play defense at either of the positions he played and pissed off everyone who ever knew him. But he gets on base though, and Moneyball says he is awesome.

His 2 postseason plate appearances in 2004 were awesome though, kept Mendoza from somethingorother.

Also, it's pretty evident from his stats that Youk didn't start on the PEDs until after the 2007 season. His stats went from Nick Punto to Ken Caminiti, and all of a sudden everyone wanted to beat the shit out of him.

Hey guys look, Teddy's taking a minor point and blowing it up again! I'm about as interested in discussing this topic as I am in the one regarding the definition of "boards" in basketball.

And FWIW, Youk did play in 73 games and had 7 HRs in 248 PAs '04. So, yes, he did contribute a lot more to the 2004 team than I had initially remembered. Unless you deem regular season contributions meaningless. Which given the litany of arguments you have presented on this site wouldn't surprise me.

Edit: The PED point is stupid unless you want to disqualify all the achievments of pretty much every baseball player from 1990-2005.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Hey guys look, Teddy's taking a minor point and blowing it up again! I'm about as interested in discussing this topic as I am in the one regarding the definition of "boards" in basketball.

And FWIW, Youk did play in 73 games and had 7 HRs in 248 PAs '04. So, yes, he did contribute a lot more to the 2004 team than I had initially remembered. Unless you deem regular season contributions meaningless. Which given the litany of arguments you have presented on this site wouldn't surprise me.

I deem this conversation meaningless. Youk was (a) a prick that was disliked by almost everyone that met him; (b) an overrated baseball player that was the poster boy of the fan boy stat nerds; and (c) not a contributor to the 2004 World Series title (and was pretty much just another guy on the 2007 team). The seasons where his stats blew up were in 2008 and 2009 and thereafter he was hurt all the time. So in addition to the first three things, I add the speculation that his shitty attitude, blown up stats and resultant injury plagued seasons lead to.

If your point is that he didn't have zero statistics in 2004, then congrats, you won the argument. Ramiro Mendoza had 30 IP and an ERA of 3.52 that season, and I agree with you that he didn't contribute shit either.

Your Moneball paranoia is classic. He was a damn good player by pretty much any way you measure it. Douche, sure, sweaty, yes, grossly outperformed his contract, yes. But thank you for taking offense to a baseless quip regarding Ramiro Mendoza. You're feigned disinterest is quite transparent.

And, yes, Ramiro Mendoza contributed to the 2004 World Series. Not significantly, but he did. Which was my original point about Youk. Thank you for taking offense.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Hey guys look, Teddy's taking a minor point and blowing it up again! I'm about as interested in discussing this topic as I am in the one regarding the definition of "boards" in basketball.

Teddy lost that one by a lot

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Your Moneball paranoia is classic. He was a damn good player by pretty much any way you measure it. Douche, sure, sweaty, yes, grossly outperformed his contract, yes. But thank you for taking offense to a baseless quip regarding Ramiro Mendoza. You're feigned disinterest is quite transparent.

And, yes, Ramiro Mendoza contributed to the 2004 World Series. Not significantly, but he did. Which was my original point about Youk. Thank you for taking offense.

In typical fashion, claimed victory on minutiae rather than the point. And the typical "You're scared of stats because you correctly pointed out that Moneyball prematurely proclaimed Youkilis as the poster boy of sabremetrics."

Youk performed to his contract, and then when he got a big contract, he miraculously started performing to that. After the Sox had already won two World Series.

I could give a shit about Ramiro Mendoza other than the fact that he contributed about as much to the 04 WS as Youk did. And you and I for that matter.

Fact is that Youk was an average player for most of his career that was deified by stat geeks and pink hats. On top of it, he sucked as a person and a teammate. Adding in that he contributed nothing to 2004 and was just another guy on the 2007 team, I see no reason to stand up and cheer the douche, which was really the point that got lost in analyzing whether Youk's 7 HRs in the regular season in 04 made any difference in the Sox winning a title.

Yeah you're just trying to argue yourself into believing that because you didn't like him as a player. In his six full years as a starter (2006-2011) he had a slash line of .292/.392/.500 while averaging 20 HRs and 84 RBI. Just as a point of reference, over that same period Mark Teixeira put up a slash line of .281/.378/.527 while averaging 34 HR and 113 RBI. If Youk's six years are considered average, well, shit, I'll take average everyday of the week, especially they were paying him at a below market rate for much of the duration of the contract.

As to your contribution argument, it's clearly semantics regarding degree of contribution so go ahead believing whatever grossly specific definition you'd like to believe. I apologize the Ramiro Mendoza comment touched a nerve on a player you are unable to discuss rationally.

Do you guys need a room or something?

claver2010 {l Wrote}:Do you guys need a room or something?

They do.

So did the pinkhats notice you were booing, not Yoouking?