flyingelvii {l Wrote}:It's not a great stat but it's usually better than runs and a helluva lot better than pitcher wins.
And here goes the Moneyball pissy fight in 3..2..1...
flyingelvii {l Wrote}:I just hate the idea people get that Moneyball is about OBP, SLG, WAR, WHIP, and all the other advanced statistics. It's about finding market inefficiencies and exploiting them. Beane did that with OBP and SLG and got some damn good teams. He tried to do that with defense and got some mediocre teams. Now Daric Barton is sacrifice bunting a ton in early innings so I don't think he knows he's running a baseball team anymore.
flyingelvii {l Wrote}:They're not meaningless but the importance that has been placed on them has often times misplaced simply because the media has stated since pretty much baseball began that these were the only important stats. Of course, the best management went beyond these stats to find greater value in its infancy. The one example that comes to mind is Branch Rickey "inventing", for lack of a better term, isoP and OBP. And Adam Dunn has basically become the most polarized figure because of this "battle".
One of my favorite quotes ever about the general subject is from Jeff Francouer discussing OBP and said something to the effect of, "If it's so important why don't they put it on the scoreboard when you go to bad." That head in the sand thinking is one of the more frustrating parts of the whole thing.
branchinator {l Wrote}:I like baseball but I just can't get into the SABRmetrics nerdfest. There's nothing more annoying than a stat nerd proudly proclaiming that BA, RBI, ERA, etc. are worthless stats. They can be flawed but they're certainly not worthless.
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:branchinator {l Wrote}:I like baseball but I just can't get into the SABRmetrics nerdfest. There's nothing more annoying than a stat nerd proudly proclaiming that BA, RBI, ERA, etc. are worthless stats. They can be flawed but they're certainly not worthless.
They're worthless to SABR dorks because they are trying (unsuccessfully) to put a dollar value on every minor aspect of every player's game, and they refuse to admit there are certain things that are undefinable, like clutchness. A SABR douche will ramble on and on about sample size - a baseball player knows what it is like to be up there in the 9th with runners on and the game on the line.
Trying to turn baseball into a science is awful and naive. And it has had the accidental effect of making the game positively fucking boring.
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:pick6pedro {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:flyingelvii {l Wrote}:bcsoxfan12 {l Wrote}:By the time the Sox get healthy I fear it will be too late and the annual August slide is right around the corner
What the fuck is the annual August slide besides something you made up?
Edit: I figured it out. "Annual" refers to August of 2006 when Jason Johnson and Kyle Snyder prominently featured in the Red Sox rotation. They've been over .500, usually comfortably so, in August in all other years with Tito at the helm.
Amen brother.
Bill Hall, 10th dong. Eff you Pedro.
Sure, his 6th since being forced into starting. I guess we can just ignore the .237 BA (where he was supposed to improve dramatically with an every day role), right big fella? I suppose you're just goading me for a response, though, right?
Hit his 11th yesterday,
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Thought you moneyball guys didn't care about mundane things like batting average.
flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Again, the "traditional" line is not meaningless, it's just overrated. I don't know why people's panties get all bunched up when people try to look beyond the conventional.
And regarding the walk/hit thing, it's all about win probability. A walk with runners on in a close game is worth less than a hit but if it's in, say, the second inning in a 0-0 game, the change in win probability is negligible. But keep relying on sportswriting greats like Bill Plashcke instead of a Joe Pos to get baseball info.
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:branchinator {l Wrote}:I like baseball but I just can't get into the SABRmetrics nerdfest. There's nothing more annoying than a stat nerd proudly proclaiming that BA, RBI, ERA, etc. are worthless stats. They can be flawed but they're certainly not worthless.
They're worthless to SABR dorks because they are trying (unsuccessfully) to put a dollar value on every minor aspect of every player's game, and they refuse to admit there are certain things that are undefinable, like clutchness. A SABR douche will ramble on and on about sample size - a baseball player knows what it is like to be up there in the 9th with runners on and the game on the line.
Trying to turn baseball into a science is awful and naive. And it has had the accidental effect of making the game positively fucking boring.
EagleNYC {l Wrote}:twballgame9 {l Wrote}:branchinator {l Wrote}:I like baseball but I just can't get into the SABRmetrics nerdfest. There's nothing more annoying than a stat nerd proudly proclaiming that BA, RBI, ERA, etc. are worthless stats. They can be flawed but they're certainly not worthless.
They're worthless to SABR dorks because they are trying (unsuccessfully) to put a dollar value on every minor aspect of every player's game, and they refuse to admit there are certain things that are undefinable, like clutchness. A SABR douche will ramble on and on about sample size - a baseball player knows what it is like to be up there in the 9th with runners on and the game on the line.
Trying to turn baseball into a science is awful and naive. And it has had the accidental effect of making the game positively fucking boring.
To the extent that anyone (SABR or otherwise) thinks that they can "figure out" baseball, they are a fool. I think that most SABR-heads think they are getting a better sense of a player's value/ability by looking at stats- some fans seem to think that this means they are some higher level of being. As much as anything else, pressure matters. Driving in 85 runs (or, if you prefer, a .400 OBP) on the Royals when you play in precisely zero meaningful games a year should probably have it's own statistical adjustment.
BCEagle74 {l Wrote}:Red Sox are muerto.
Tampa Bay has matured.
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