AL East Regular Season Thread

[EagleNYC]

It had to be done. I know we have at least a few Oriole fans on here, so maybe that will district from inevitable NYY-Sox blood bath that will ensue.

2 weeks into the season and the Sox look like crap. Forget starting 4-9, they are 1-6 at home. No need to panic, but a terrible start to the season that plays upon the anticipated pre-season fears of the team (no clutch hitting, poor relief pitching, Ortiz) with some shaky performances from perceived pre-season strengths (defense, starting pitching, Victor Martinez, Youkilis). In a month, this could be a bad memory, but given the likelihood that this is a 3 horse race for 2 spots, it's a terrible way to open the season.

The Rays are playing like world beaters. Their pitching has been fantastic and their bats explosive (with the notable exception of Burrell). The offensive x-factor (Upton), has been superb. Price and Neimann have impressed.

The Yankees are playing above even their own expectations, with the starting rotation leading the way. Despite very little production from Rodriguez and Tex, they are steamrolling the competition. As piss poor as Vazquez has been (answer: Steve Trout-level bad), if the team were 5-5 the heat would be significantly worse.

I haven't seen enough of the birds to speak about those two squads.

[BCEagle74]

AL EAST: New York Yankees
AL CENTRAL: Minnesota Twins
AL WEST: Texas Rangers
AL WILD CARD: Tampa Bay Rays

ALDS: Tampa Bay 3 Minnesota 2
ALDS: New York 3 Texas 2
ALCS: New York 4 Tampa Bay 3

Red Sox eliminated today due to them being poopheads.

[ADonovanJr]

The Red Sox are built to win in 2012, but the media got sucked into the pitching and defense line. This is a team that is a contender if they can get a right fielder, left fielder and a catcher. That's not happening this year. They need at least one off-season to fill those holes.

Ortiz is Lee May circa 1978. Good pitchers know how to get him out and the rest of baseball is catching on quickly. May was able to hide his decline back then because we did not have all of the technology we do today. Now, a hole in the swing is discovered and communicated around the league in weeks.

The Orioles will be lucky to win sixty games.

[EagleNYC]

Ortiz is Lee May circa 1978. Good pitchers know how to get him out and the rest of baseball is catching on quickly. May was able to hide his decline back then because we did not have all of the technology we do today. Now, a hole in the swing is discovered and communicated around the league in weeks.

I was thinking Mo Vaughn, the Mets years.

[twballgame9]

Call me when Ortiz ends up with 30 dongs and 100 RBI like he did last year when everyone said the same shit that they are saying now. He ain't the David Ortiz of old, but reports of his demise are grotesquely premature.

The Red Sox through 2 weeks have gotten bad performances from 3 top pitchers, no timely hitting whatsoever, and have played the worst defense in major league baseball history. None of those three things will continue.

That said, they still need a bat. Just one for this season, really, although they need to start thinking about 2-3 young bats for next year and beyond. Their pitching is set for a long time to come.

[BearTerritory]

The Red Sox starting pitching should keep them alive. I don't their relief pitching is anywhere as strong as previous years and the Theo retread experiments with Beltre and Cameron may not add anything. Hard to see them challenging Tampa or the Yankees with so many mediocre hitters in a hitters league.

[EagleNYC]

Call me when Ortiz ends up with 30 dongs and 100 RBI like he did last year when everyone said the same shit that they are saying now. He ain't the David Ortiz of old, but reports of his demise are grotesquely premature.

The Red Sox through 2 weeks have gotten bad performances from 3 top pitchers, no timely hitting whatsoever, and have played the worst defense in major league baseball history. None of those three things will continue.

That said, they still need a bat. Just one for this season, really, although they need to start thinking about 2-3 young bats for next year and beyond. Their pitching is set for a long time to come.

I don't think he gets there, but I was admittedly having a bit of fun with him. I'd put over/under at 24.5 HR, 85 rbi.

[bcsoxfan12]

I’m holding out hope that the sox might be able to put together a trade for a bat before the deadline. I think if the rotation and bullpen will even out by the end of next month we can pull of the wild card

[commavegarage]

Ortiz sucks. And last year was not a good year for him. Sure, he got to 28/99, but he batted .238. You already have that in Mike Cameron.

[ADonovanJr]

Call me when Ortiz ends up with 30 dongs and 100 RBI like he did last year when everyone said the same shit that they are saying now. He ain't the David Ortiz of old, but reports of his demise are grotesquely premature.

The Red Sox through 2 weeks have gotten bad performances from 3 top pitchers, no timely hitting whatsoever, and have played the worst defense in major league baseball history. None of those three things will continue.

That said, they still need a bat. Just one for this season, really, although they need to start thinking about 2-3 young bats for next year and beyond. Their pitching is set for a long time to come.

I disagree on Ortiz. There is a good argument to be made that his first five years with the Sox were an exception. He had a great hitting lineup around him and an ample supply of drugs. His OBP dropped off in 2008 and again in 2009. Father time says he will only get worse.

As far as this year, a big bat would make a difference. The question they have to ask is if it is too late. They will not be able to make a deal until after Memorial Day. Why give up a prospect if the yanks and Rays have run away with the race?

[twballgame9]

Call me when Ortiz ends up with 30 dongs and 100 RBI like he did last year when everyone said the same shit that they are saying now. He ain't the David Ortiz of old, but reports of his demise are grotesquely premature.

The Red Sox through 2 weeks have gotten bad performances from 3 top pitchers, no timely hitting whatsoever, and have played the worst defense in major league baseball history. None of those three things will continue.

That said, they still need a bat. Just one for this season, really, although they need to start thinking about 2-3 young bats for next year and beyond. Their pitching is set for a long time to come.

I disagree on Ortiz. There is a good argument to be made that his first five years with the Sox were an exception. He had a great hitting lineup around him and an ample supply of drugs. His OBP dropped off in 2008 and again in 2009. Father time says he will only get worse.

As far as this year, a big bat would make a difference. The question they have to ask is if it is too late. They will not be able to make a deal until after Memorial Day. Why give up a prospect if the yanks and Rays have run away with the race?

He didn't hit a HR until mid May last year. He ended with 28 dongs and 90 RBI. I believe he led the league in dongs from Memorial Day on. That's pretty good. And 5 years is an exception? The guy wasn't an everyday player until he got to the Sox - in fact he platooned with Jeremy Giambi the first two or three months of 2003 after he got to the Sox. He then had 4-5 big seasons, which brings us to 2009, which was a down year with 28/90.

Getting older, and with no Manny, he will never hit 45 with 130 RBI again. Fair enough, if that is your point. But if your prediction is that he is just going to disappear, well, I doubt it unless the Sox completely give up on him, which would be stupid.

And no one is running away from the Red Sox. The pitching is too good. They may finish third (unlikely despite ridiculous knee jerk nonsense on here) but it will go down to September. The decision to get a bat will be one to decide whether they want a chance to win the World Series, not make the playoffs.

[bignick33]

Tonight the Red Sox unveiled their secret weapon: Darnell McDonald.

[bignick33]

Darnell McDonald.

Not to be confused with Darnell Campbell.

[EagleNYC]

Call me when Ortiz ends up with 30 dongs and 100 RBI like he did last year when everyone said the same shit that they are saying now. He ain't the David Ortiz of old, but reports of his demise are grotesquely premature.

The Red Sox through 2 weeks have gotten bad performances from 3 top pitchers, no timely hitting whatsoever, and have played the worst defense in major league baseball history. None of those three things will continue.

That said, they still need a bat. Just one for this season, really, although they need to start thinking about 2-3 young bats for next year and beyond. Their pitching is set for a long time to come.

I disagree on Ortiz. There is a good argument to be made that his first five years with the Sox were an exception. He had a great hitting lineup around him and an ample supply of drugs. His OBP dropped off in 2008 and again in 2009. Father time says he will only get worse.

As far as this year, a big bat would make a difference. The question they have to ask is if it is too late. They will not be able to make a deal until after Memorial Day. Why give up a prospect if the yanks and Rays have run away with the race?

He didn't hit a HR until mid May last year. He ended with 28 dongs and 90 RBI. I believe he led the league in dongs from Memorial Day on. That's pretty good. And 5 years is an exception? The guy wasn't an everyday player until he got to the Sox - in fact he platooned with Jeremy Giambi the first two or three months of 2003 after he got to the Sox. He then had 4-5 big seasons, which brings us to 2009, which was a down year with 28/90.

Getting older, and with no Manny, he will never hit 45 with 130 RBI again. Fair enough, if that is your point. But if your prediction is that he is just going to disappear, well, I doubt it unless the Sox completely give up on him, which would be stupid.

And no one is running away from the Red Sox. The pitching is too good. They may finish third (unlikely despite ridiculous knee jerk nonsense on here) but it will go down to September. The decision to get a bat will be one to decide whether they want a chance to win the World Series, not make the playoffs.

I stand by my over/under figures. What I hadn't looked at was his OPS (thanks Art): .877 in 2008, .794 in 2009. I don't expect him to be the 1.000 guy he was a few years ago, but sub-.850 is not good for a clean-up hitter on a contender. I don't think he's done, but he's an average MLB cleanup hitter in many respects.

As for the final standings, I don't think it is knee jerk nonsense to be concerned about Tampa. They have a very good young core, a steady manager, and a proven track record of beating the Sox. That's why they play the games.

[ADonovanJr]

He didn't hit a HR until mid May last year. He ended with 28 dongs and 90 RBI. I believe he led the league in dongs from Memorial Day on. That's pretty good. And 5 years is an exception? The guy wasn't an everyday player until he got to the Sox - in fact he platooned with Jeremy Giambi the first two or three months of 2003 after he got to the Sox. He then had 4-5 big seasons, which brings us to 2009, which was a down year with 28/90.

Getting older, and with no Manny, he will never hit 45 with 130 RBI again. Fair enough, if that is your point. But if your prediction is that he is just going to disappear, well, I doubt it unless the Sox completely give up on him, which would be stupid.

And no one is running away from the Red Sox. The pitching is too good. They may finish third (unlikely despite ridiculous knee jerk nonsense on here) but it will go down to September. The decision to get a bat will be one to decide whether they want a chance to win the World Series, not make the playoffs.

Otriz had a great June. His July numbers began to slide again. August was another bad month. He came around in September, but the HR total for the month was three in 88 at-bats. His 20 HR's for the season, not 28, is not what you need from the spot in the lineup. At some point, the Sox have to decide if it is worth waiting for maybe another good month.

Here's his game-by-game stats from last year: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/players/hittinglogs.php?p=ortizda01&y=2009

You cannot look at that, his 2008 numbers and this year's start and honestly think he is a 30 HR - 90 RBI player anymore. Not at 35 in the post-steroid era.

[BCEagle74]

Ortiz piss off Jobu.

[pick6pedro]

They may finish third (unlikely despite ridiculous knee jerk nonsense on here) but it will go down to September.

It's only a knee-jerk reaction within The Nation because plenty of "experts" and other fans picked them 3rd or saw 3rd as a distinct possibility as well.

[pick6pedro]

Tonight the Red Sox unveiled their secret weapon: Darnell McDonald.

Man, he was a major disappointment for the O's. I waited and waited and waited to see something from him. Although not a disappointment of the Jeffrey Hammonds level.

[bignick33]

Tonight the Red Sox unveiled their secret weapon: Darnell McDonald.

Man, he was a major disappointment for the O's. I waited and waited and waited to see something from him. Although not a disappointment of the Jeffrey Hammonds level.

True fact about McDonald: he went to the same high school as Josh Bard, Brad Lidge, and David Aardsma, Tom Ashworth, and Michael Ruffin. Further, John Elway is the QB coach there.

[bignick33]

Michael Ruffin

[EagleNYC]

Although not a disappointment of the Jeffrey Hammonds level.

Sweet Lord, that was a letdown. He was going to be Ken Griffey Jr. It seems like many clubs get taken in with those guys though. Corey Patterson is a good recent example.

[twballgame9]

They may finish third (unlikely despite ridiculous knee jerk nonsense on here) but it will go down to September.

It's only a knee-jerk reaction within The Nation because plenty of "experts" and other fans picked them 3rd or saw 3rd as a distinct possibility as well.

Yes, and those people are stupid. Pitching wins championships, and the Sox have the best staff in baseball.

And Ortiz is not the clean up hitter.

This is going to be a fun summer. Lester and Beckett got off to a start like this last year too. I suppose the Sox finished in 3rd, right?

[twballgame9]

Although not a disappointment of the Jeffrey Hammonds level.

Sweet Lord, that was a letdown. He was going to be Ken Griffey Jr. It seems like many clubs get taken in with those guys though. Corey Patterson is a good recent example.

No one can top the shittiness that was Greg Jeffries.

[Endless Mike]

The Red Sox are built to win in 2012, but the media got sucked into the pitching and defense line. This is a team that is a contender if they can get a right fielder, left fielder and a catcher. That's not happening this year. They need at least one off-season to fill those holes.

Catcher? Victor's not going anywhere, and his offense more than makes up for his defensive troubles. Ellsbury and Drew aren't the problem either.

The real problem so far is this team hasn't played Baltimore or Toronto yet.

[EagleNYC]

Although not a disappointment of the Jeffrey Hammonds level.

Sweet Lord, that was a letdown. He was going to be Ken Griffey Jr. It seems like many clubs get taken in with those guys though. Corey Patterson is a good recent example.

No one can top the shittiness that was Greg Jeffries.

Not one, but three. Same organization though...

[pick6pedro]

They may finish third (unlikely despite ridiculous knee jerk nonsense on here) but it will go down to September.

It's only a knee-jerk reaction within The Nation because plenty of "experts" and other fans picked them 3rd or saw 3rd as a distinct possibility as well.

Yes, and those people are stupid. Pitching wins championships, and the Sox have the best staff in baseball.

And Ortiz is not the clean up hitter.

This is going to be a fun summer. Lester and Beckett got off to a start like this last year too. I suppose the Sox finished in 3rd, right?

Stubbornness shining right through. tdw - you're breaking your own rules pointing out last year's slow start and subsequent finish to prove why this year can't possibly go differently. Any changes from last year? What a boring argument you're making. Frankly, I'm highly disappointed.

[EagleNYC]

They may finish third (unlikely despite ridiculous knee jerk nonsense on here) but it will go down to September.

It's only a knee-jerk reaction within The Nation because plenty of "experts" and other fans picked them 3rd or saw 3rd as a distinct possibility as well.

Yes, and those people are stupid. Pitching wins championships, and the Sox have the best staff in baseball.

And Ortiz is not the clean up hitter.

This is going to be a fun summer. Lester and Beckett got off to a start like this last year too. I suppose the Sox finished in 3rd, right?

Stubbornness shining right through. tdw - you're breaking your own rules pointing out last year's slow start and subsequent finish to prove why this year can't possibly go differently. Any changes from last year? What a boring argument you're making. Frankly, I'm highly disappointed.

While your point is well taken, he's right to taut the starting pitching, which did change (for the better). The problem (to beat my dead horse) is they need another big bat (even if Ortiz were 2007 Ortiz) and the bullpen is shaky.

To TW's argument re: 3rd place, I think the Rays are in SIGNIFICANTLY better shape this year with a healthy David Price and BP Upton, and with several key players entering their baseball primes.

[pick6pedro]

Although not a disappointment of the Jeffrey Hammonds level.

Sweet Lord, that was a letdown. He was going to be Ken Griffey Jr. It seems like many clubs get taken in with those guys though. Corey Patterson is a good recent example.

No one can top the shittiness that was Greg Jeffries.

I really don't see how you can compare a 20th overall pick who had a long and serviceable career in the majors to a #4 overall pick who did next to nothing except for one or two seasons.

[twballgame9]

They may finish third (unlikely despite ridiculous knee jerk nonsense on here) but it will go down to September.

It's only a knee-jerk reaction within The Nation because plenty of "experts" and other fans picked them 3rd or saw 3rd as a distinct possibility as well.

Yes, and those people are stupid. Pitching wins championships, and the Sox have the best staff in baseball.

And Ortiz is not the clean up hitter.

This is going to be a fun summer. Lester and Beckett got off to a start like this last year too. I suppose the Sox finished in 3rd, right?

Stubbornness shining right through. tdw - you're breaking your own rules pointing out last year's slow start and subsequent finish to prove why this year can't possibly go differently. Any changes from last year? What a boring argument you're making. Frankly, I'm highly disappointed.

Yes, John Lackey. The only thing disappointing around here is the fact that here is a fucking argument about this after 14 games.

[pick6pedro]

They may finish third (unlikely despite ridiculous knee jerk nonsense on here) but it will go down to September.

It's only a knee-jerk reaction within The Nation because plenty of "experts" and other fans picked them 3rd or saw 3rd as a distinct possibility as well.

Yes, and those people are stupid. Pitching wins championships, and the Sox have the best staff in baseball.

And Ortiz is not the clean up hitter.

This is going to be a fun summer. Lester and Beckett got off to a start like this last year too. I suppose the Sox finished in 3rd, right?

Stubbornness shining right through. tdw - you're breaking your own rules pointing out last year's slow start and subsequent finish to prove why this year can't possibly go differently. Any changes from last year? What a boring argument you're making. Frankly, I'm highly disappointed.

Yes, John Lackey. The only thing disappointing around here is the fact that here is a fucking argument about this after 14 games.

My point, which you clearly chose to ignore, was that there was argument about it before one game was played, so it's not just coming up because of a slow start. But don't let that stop you from getting all hot and bothered about it.