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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 10:04 pm
by eepstein0
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
DavidGordonsFoot wrote:
jhiggi02 wrote:Looking forward to a very productive year out of Kelly, hopefully starting tonight.

Kid's stuff is too electric for him to not figure it out unless he is just another clown like Eovaldi

About that...


6.2 no hit innings the other day ...


Saw him Friday Night in Toronto. He has no clue where the ball is going and his "stuff" isn't even that wonderful. He throws hard which is nice but that fastball is as straight as an arrow and guys just tee off on it. His breaking stuff is good but half the time it just hangs there. Donaldson had no problem squaring up one of those 98 MPH fastballs and hit it about a mile.

He should be in the bullpen, as a 1 inning guy he'd be effective, but he sucks as a starter (see the 6+ ERA)


You are a fucking moron


He throws really hard, straight and wild. I didn't think any of this was debatable. He should be nowhere near the rotation of a contending team. Nor should Clay at the moment but the kids at AAA aren't ready or aren't good.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 10:05 pm
by eepstein0
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:For the record, Joe Kelly's pitching is the worst thing I subject myself to on a regular basis. At one point last night, he had thrown 84 pitches, 44 of which were strikes, and he was actually winning 4-2.


I'd rather Buccholtz than him, although both are terrible.

At least Buccholtz showed some balls today

'
This is fucking dumb


Clay came in and pitched a good inning in a key spot. They're both bad.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2016 6:21 pm
by eepstein0
jhiggi02 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
DavidGordonsFoot wrote:
jhiggi02 wrote:Looking forward to a very productive year out of Kelly, hopefully starting tonight.

Kid's stuff is too electric for him to not figure it out unless he is just another clown like Eovaldi

About that...


6.2 no hit innings the other day ...


Saw him Friday Night in Toronto. He has no clue where the ball is going and his "stuff" isn't even that wonderful. He throws hard which is nice but that fastball is as straight as an arrow and guys just tee off on it. His breaking stuff is good but half the time it just hangs there. Donaldson had no problem squaring up one of those 98 MPH fastballs and hit it about a mile.

He should be in the bullpen, as a 1 inning guy he'd be effective, but he sucks as a starter (see the 6+ ERA)


You know nothing about baseball.


Differentiate throwing hard from having good stuff. That fastball is straight as an arrow.

He blows, on a team trying to win I'd prefer Jeremy Helickson or whatever crappy option is available at the deadline

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 8:29 am
by twballgame9
Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 6:48 pm
by eepstein0
twballgame9 wrote:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff


Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:18 am
by twballgame9
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff


Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.


You are wrong.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:39 am
by eepstein0
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff


Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.


You are wrong.


I hope I am. The 6+ ERA he has at the moment indicates I am not.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 10:21 am
by twballgame9
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff


Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.


You are wrong.


I hope I am. The 6+ ERA he has at the moment indicates I am not.


I am only disputing your assessment of his stuff. I actually watch the games, not the box scores. The 7 IP of no hit ball two starts ago indicates you have zero idea about the quality of Joe Kelly's stuff. Guy has no command, phenomenal stuff, and anyone that has ever seen a Sox game with him pitching could tell you that.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:19 am
by DavidGordonsFoot
I think Kelly has good movement on his curveball. None of his other pitches stand out to me.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:45 am
by eepstein0
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff


Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.


You are wrong.


I hope I am. The 6+ ERA he has at the moment indicates I am not.


I am only disputing your assessment of his stuff. I actually watch the games, not the box scores. The 7 IP of no hit ball two starts ago indicates you have zero idea about the quality of Joe Kelly's stuff. Guy has no command, phenomenal stuff, and anyone that has ever seen a Sox game with him pitching could tell you that.


I watch plenty of games and had the displeasure of seeing him up close Friday Night in Toronto. Aside from throwing really hard I was completely underwhelmed. No one on that Jays offense had much trouble squaring up any of his pitches including the 98 mph fastball Donaldson launched about a mile opposite field.

We're in agreement if he could ever control his pitches he would be good, I just don't see that ever happening for 30 starts

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:57 am
by twballgame9
DavidGordonsFoot wrote:I think Kelly has good movement on his curveball. None of his other pitches stand out to me.


Kelly's fastball moves more than any other pitcher on the Red Sox, other than maybe Porcello's 2-seamer. It's by far his best pitch. He just can't control it. This is a dumb argument, because pretty much everyone thinks Kelly's got great stuff.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:01 pm
by twballgame9
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff


Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.


You are wrong.


I hope I am. The 6+ ERA he has at the moment indicates I am not.


I am only disputing your assessment of his stuff. I actually watch the games, not the box scores. The 7 IP of no hit ball two starts ago indicates you have zero idea about the quality of Joe Kelly's stuff. Guy has no command, phenomenal stuff, and anyone that has ever seen a Sox game with him pitching could tell you that.


I watch plenty of games and had the displeasure of seeing him up close Friday Night in Toronto. Aside from throwing really hard I was completely underwhelmed. No one on that Jays offense had much trouble squaring up any of his pitches including the 98 mph fastball Donaldson launched about a mile opposite field.

We're in agreement if he could ever control his pitches he would be good, I just don't see that ever happening for 30 starts


In a bad start, the team with no trouble squaring him up (one of the best lineups in baseball, btw) struck out 8 times in 4.2 IP. Stuff is not the problem.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:28 pm
by TobaccoRoadEagle
eepstein0 wrote: Friday Night in Toronto.

was this you?

Image

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:37 pm
by eepstein0
TobaccoRoadEagle wrote:
eepstein0 wrote: Friday Night in Toronto.

was this you?

Image


No but that was pretty humorous

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:40 pm
by eepstein0
jhiggi02 wrote:Rough first for kelly, looks like I'm losing tonight. Dude needs to throw first pitch strikes and he will be fine


I clearly was selling Kelly short. After a 4 run 1st inning his ERA is approaching 8. That includes 4 hits off his supposed awesome array of pitches.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 6:46 pm
by eepstein0
jhiggi02 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff


Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.


You are wrong.


I hope I am. The 6+ ERA he has at the moment indicates I am not.


I am only disputing your assessment of his stuff. I actually watch the games, not the box scores. The 7 IP of no hit ball two starts ago indicates you have zero idea about the quality of Joe Kelly's stuff. Guy has no command, phenomenal stuff, and anyone that has ever seen a Sox game with him pitching could tell you that.


I watch plenty of games and had the displeasure of seeing him up close Friday Night in Toronto. Aside from throwing really hard I was completely underwhelmed. No one on that Jays offense had much trouble squaring up any of his pitches including the 98 mph fastball Donaldson launched about a mile opposite field.

We're in agreement if he could ever control his pitches he would be good, I just don't see that ever happening for 30 starts


In a bad start, the team with no trouble squaring him up (one of the best lineups in baseball, btw) struck out 8 times in 4.2 IP. Stuff is not the problem.


This. Dumb argument, he has good stuff. One facet of "stuff", not a prerequisite though, is throwing hard, another is movement, another is arm action on off speed pitches and the list goes on and on. Kelly has enough of these natural attributes that he qualifies as a stuff guy. To simplify, really dumb this down, the term stuff 9 times out of 10 equates to the ability to induce swings and misses, and phenomenal stuff is usually swings and misses on pitches in the zone.

And for no other reason than to stay in character and double down on my preseason statements about Kelly, I threw a handful of ben's on him tonight against the Orioles. The near no hitter and tonight will mark the turning point for him. I want you to remember this debate in October, Eppy.

Now on a tangent here but just because you have a straight fastball does not mean you don't have phenomenal stuff, please see Embree, Allen. Not many guys wanted to face him.

Control is a whole different beast. Control usually comes with the mastering of the craft of pitching i.e.) more of a learned trait than stuff is. When you have a pitcher who has great stuff and control i.e.) Martinez, Pedro, then you are really onto something.


We aren't going to have this debate in October because he isn't going to be in the rotation. He is awful.

He gives up more than a hit per inning and almost 2 bombs per game. Stuff or not guys have no problem squaring him up

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:15 pm
by eepstein0
jhiggi02 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
jhiggi02 wrote:Rough first for kelly, looks like I'm losing tonight. Dude needs to throw first pitch strikes and he will be fine


I clearly was selling Kelly short. After a 4 run 1st inning his ERA is approaching 8. That includes 4 hits off his supposed awesome array of pitches.


God you are a dick, a very small one, but a dick nonetheless


Just because you bet your life savings tonight on Joe Kershaw doesn't mean you need to get all upset.

That's 5 ER in 2 IP for those you counting at home. Season ERA of 7.77

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:41 pm
by eepstein0
2.1 IP and 6 ER for Joe Sale including 7 hits. ERA at a cool 8.08.

Edit: 7 ER will close the book. ERA up to a sparkling 8.48

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 7:44 pm
by DavidGordonsFoot
eepstein0 wrote:2.1 IP and 6 ER for Joe Sale including 7 hits. ERA at a cool 8.08.

Edit: 7 ER will close the book. ERA up to a sparkling 8.48

You had me at Joe Kershaw.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:10 pm
by twballgame9
epstein is still a moron at Costco reading box scores

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:35 pm
by eepstein0
twballgame9 wrote:epstein is still a moron at Costco reading box scores


I probably slog to 15-20 home games a year and a road series so don't give me that nonesense.

Joe Kershaw's ERA is still north of 8. You can just admit you're wrong and that he blows, it's fine.

If he magically figures out where the ball is going you'll be right, but consider he turns 28 next week I don't see it happening.

This Baltimore pitching staff is also a complete mess

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:37 pm
by eepstein0
jhiggi02 wrote:I've never seen a lineup clicking like this sox team is....

And Eppy, my 'life savings' is now riding on your boy, the laptop wiz himself, clay buckholz.


Clay has two clean innings tonight. Your boy gave up 7 ER in the same 2 IP.

I think Clay is awful so don't tie me to him, he's just better than Kelly

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 7:49 am
by TobaccoRoadEagle
betting on baseball is stupid. and i'll bet on just about anything

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:10 am
by eepstein0
jhiggi02 wrote:Your boy, clay, cost me 2 weeks of winnings. He should have stuck to hawking 'second hand' computers

Thanks Eppy.


That ball that Pedroia let go right between his legs had a lot to do with it

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:30 am
by twballgame9
Dude, both suck. Buchholz just doesn't have anything anymore - he throw in the high 80s and nothing moves.

Kelly's problem is all command, not stuff. But don't take it from me, argue with Farrell. "He's blessed with a golden arm and tremendous stuff, but the execution of it has not been as consistent," Red Sox manager John Farrell said.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:06 pm
by eepstein0
twballgame9 wrote:Dude, both suck. Buchholz just doesn't have anything anymore - he throw in the high 80s and nothing moves.

Kelly's problem is all command, not stuff. But don't take it from me, argue with Farrell. "He's blessed with a golden arm and tremendous stuff, but the execution of it has not been as consistent," Red Sox manager John Farrell said.


John Farrell is a fucking moron. Watch him manage a game. The stuff is good, but it's nowhere near what people think.

How do we think Joe Kershaw's stuff will play in the International League? I hear Rhode Island is nice this time of year.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:57 pm
by twballgame9
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Dude, both suck. Buchholz just doesn't have anything anymore - he throw in the high 80s and nothing moves.

Kelly's problem is all command, not stuff. But don't take it from me, argue with Farrell. "He's blessed with a golden arm and tremendous stuff, but the execution of it has not been as consistent," Red Sox manager John Farrell said.


John Farrell is a fucking moron. Watch him manage a game. The stuff is good, but it's nowhere near what people think.

How do we think Joe Kershaw's stuff will play in the International League? I hear Rhode Island is nice this time of year.


It will probably play better than Clay Burkett and his 88 mph fastball and 86 mph changeup and t\he six other pitches he throws that all look the same and go straight.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:26 pm
by eepstein0
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Dude, both suck. Buchholz just doesn't have anything anymore - he throw in the high 80s and nothing moves.

Kelly's problem is all command, not stuff. But don't take it from me, argue with Farrell. "He's blessed with a golden arm and tremendous stuff, but the execution of it has not been as consistent," Red Sox manager John Farrell said.


John Farrell is a fucking moron. Watch him manage a game. The stuff is good, but it's nowhere near what people think.

How do we think Joe Kershaw's stuff will play in the International League? I hear Rhode Island is nice this time of year.


It will probably play better than Clay Burkett and his 88 mph fastball and 86 mph changeup and t\he six other pitches he throws that all look the same and go straight.


You forgot the 87 mph cutter that doesn't cut

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:06 pm
by twballgame9
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:
eepstein0 wrote:
twballgame9 wrote:Dude, both suck. Buchholz just doesn't have anything anymore - he throw in the high 80s and nothing moves.

Kelly's problem is all command, not stuff. But don't take it from me, argue with Farrell. "He's blessed with a golden arm and tremendous stuff, but the execution of it has not been as consistent," Red Sox manager John Farrell said.


John Farrell is a fucking moron. Watch him manage a game. The stuff is good, but it's nowhere near what people think.

How do we think Joe Kershaw's stuff will play in the International League? I hear Rhode Island is nice this time of year.


It will probably play better than Clay Burkett and his 88 mph fastball and 86 mph changeup and t\he six other pitches he throws that all look the same and go straight.


You forgot the 87 mph cutter that doesn't cut


Trying to forget all of them.

Re: Red Sox Weirdos

PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:39 pm
by eepstein0
Hey guys look Joe Kershaw is back throwing 101 MPH. Man his stuff is so good!

That 1 ER in 1 IP increased the season ERA to 8.49. The good news is one run per inning pretty soon won't really impact his ERA.