EagleOutsider.com

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:Looking forward to a very productive year out of Kelly, hopefully starting tonight.

Kid's stuff is too electric for him to not figure it out unless he is just another clown like Eovaldi

About that...

6.2 no hit innings the other day ...

Saw him Friday Night in Toronto. He has no clue where the ball is going and his "stuff" isn't even that wonderful. He throws hard which is nice but that fastball is as straight as an arrow and guys just tee off on it. His breaking stuff is good but half the time it just hangs there. Donaldson had no problem squaring up one of those 98 MPH fastballs and hit it about a mile.

He should be in the bullpen, as a 1 inning guy he'd be effective, but he sucks as a starter (see the 6+ ERA)

You are a fucking moron

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:For the record, Joe Kelly's pitching is the worst thing I subject myself to on a regular basis. At one point last night, he had thrown 84 pitches, 44 of which were strikes, and he was actually winning 4-2.

I'd rather Buccholtz than him, although both are terrible.

At least Buccholtz showed some balls today

'
This is fucking dumb

jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:Looking forward to a very productive year out of Kelly, hopefully starting tonight.

Kid's stuff is too electric for him to not figure it out unless he is just another clown like Eovaldi

About that...

6.2 no hit innings the other day ...

Saw him Friday Night in Toronto. He has no clue where the ball is going and his "stuff" isn't even that wonderful. He throws hard which is nice but that fastball is as straight as an arrow and guys just tee off on it. His breaking stuff is good but half the time it just hangs there. Donaldson had no problem squaring up one of those 98 MPH fastballs and hit it about a mile.

He should be in the bullpen, as a 1 inning guy he'd be effective, but he sucks as a starter (see the 6+ ERA)

You know nothing about baseball.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff

Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff

Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.

You are wrong.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff

Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.

You are wrong.

I hope I am. The 6+ ERA he has at the moment indicates I am not.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff

Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.

You are wrong.

I hope I am. The 6+ ERA he has at the moment indicates I am not.

I am only disputing your assessment of his stuff. I actually watch the games, not the box scores. The 7 IP of no hit ball two starts ago indicates you have zero idea about the quality of Joe Kelly's stuff. Guy has no command, phenomenal stuff, and anyone that has ever seen a Sox game with him pitching could tell you that.

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:I think Kelly has good movement on his curveball. None of his other pitches stand out to me.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff

Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.

You are wrong.

I hope I am. The 6+ ERA he has at the moment indicates I am not.

I am only disputing your assessment of his stuff. I actually watch the games, not the box scores. The 7 IP of no hit ball two starts ago indicates you have zero idea about the quality of Joe Kelly's stuff. Guy has no command, phenomenal stuff, and anyone that has ever seen a Sox game with him pitching could tell you that.

I watch plenty of games and had the displeasure of seeing him up close Friday Night in Toronto. Aside from throwing really hard I was completely underwhelmed. No one on that Jays offense had much trouble squaring up any of his pitches including the 98 mph fastball Donaldson launched about a mile opposite field.

We're in agreement if he could ever control his pitches he would be good, I just don't see that ever happening for 30 starts

eepstein0 {l Wrote}: Friday Night in Toronto.

TobaccoRoadEagle {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}: Friday Night in Toronto.

was this you?

jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:Rough first for kelly, looks like I'm losing tonight. Dude needs to throw first pitch strikes and he will be fine

jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Joe Kelly's fastball is the exact opposite of straight as an arrow. That's part of the reason he can't control it.

Clay Buchholz blows so bad that that talking about him as an alternative to Kelly is stupid. Buchholz is throwing in the high 80s, can't control any of his junk, and throws the ball right down the middle everytime he has to go from the stretch. At least Kelly has nasty stuff. Better to struggle harnessing stuff than to have no command over batting practice stuff

Kelly misses like across the plate from the catchers glove. No clue at all where the ball is going. When it rarely finds the strike zone it gets crushed.

These guys are both horrible and neither should be in a rotation of a playoff team.

You are wrong.

I hope I am. The 6+ ERA he has at the moment indicates I am not.

I am only disputing your assessment of his stuff. I actually watch the games, not the box scores. The 7 IP of no hit ball two starts ago indicates you have zero idea about the quality of Joe Kelly's stuff. Guy has no command, phenomenal stuff, and anyone that has ever seen a Sox game with him pitching could tell you that.

I watch plenty of games and had the displeasure of seeing him up close Friday Night in Toronto. Aside from throwing really hard I was completely underwhelmed. No one on that Jays offense had much trouble squaring up any of his pitches including the 98 mph fastball Donaldson launched about a mile opposite field.

We're in agreement if he could ever control his pitches he would be good, I just don't see that ever happening for 30 starts

In a bad start, the team with no trouble squaring him up (one of the best lineups in baseball, btw) struck out 8 times in 4.2 IP. Stuff is not the problem.

This. Dumb argument, he has good stuff. One facet of "stuff", not a prerequisite though, is throwing hard, another is movement, another is arm action on off speed pitches and the list goes on and on. Kelly has enough of these natural attributes that he qualifies as a stuff guy. To simplify, really dumb this down, the term stuff 9 times out of 10 equates to the ability to induce swings and misses, and phenomenal stuff is usually swings and misses on pitches in the zone.

And for no other reason than to stay in character and double down on my preseason statements about Kelly, I threw a handful of ben's on him tonight against the Orioles. The near no hitter and tonight will mark the turning point for him. I want you to remember this debate in October, Eppy.

Now on a tangent here but just because you have a straight fastball does not mean you don't have phenomenal stuff, please see Embree, Allen. Not many guys wanted to face him.

Control is a whole different beast. Control usually comes with the mastering of the craft of pitching i.e.) more of a learned trait than stuff is. When you have a pitcher who has great stuff and control i.e.) Martinez, Pedro, then you are really onto something.

jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:Rough first for kelly, looks like I'm losing tonight. Dude needs to throw first pitch strikes and he will be fine

I clearly was selling Kelly short. After a 4 run 1st inning his ERA is approaching 8. That includes 4 hits off his supposed awesome array of pitches.

God you are a dick, a very small one, but a dick nonetheless

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:2.1 IP and 6 ER for Joe Sale including 7 hits. ERA at a cool 8.08.

Edit: 7 ER will close the book. ERA up to a sparkling 8.48

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:epstein is still a moron at Costco reading box scores

jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:I've never seen a lineup clicking like this sox team is....

And Eppy, my 'life savings' is now riding on your boy, the laptop wiz himself, clay buckholz.

jhiggi02 {l Wrote}:Your boy, clay, cost me 2 weeks of winnings. He should have stuck to hawking 'second hand' computers

Thanks Eppy.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Dude, both suck. Buchholz just doesn't have anything anymore - he throw in the high 80s and nothing moves.

Kelly's problem is all command, not stuff. But don't take it from me, argue with Farrell. "He's blessed with a golden arm and tremendous stuff, but the execution of it has not been as consistent," Red Sox manager John Farrell said.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Dude, both suck. Buchholz just doesn't have anything anymore - he throw in the high 80s and nothing moves.

Kelly's problem is all command, not stuff. But don't take it from me, argue with Farrell. "He's blessed with a golden arm and tremendous stuff, but the execution of it has not been as consistent," Red Sox manager John Farrell said.

John Farrell is a fucking moron. Watch him manage a game. The stuff is good, but it's nowhere near what people think.

How do we think Joe Kershaw's stuff will play in the International League? I hear Rhode Island is nice this time of year.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Dude, both suck. Buchholz just doesn't have anything anymore - he throw in the high 80s and nothing moves.

Kelly's problem is all command, not stuff. But don't take it from me, argue with Farrell. "He's blessed with a golden arm and tremendous stuff, but the execution of it has not been as consistent," Red Sox manager John Farrell said.

John Farrell is a fucking moron. Watch him manage a game. The stuff is good, but it's nowhere near what people think.

How do we think Joe Kershaw's stuff will play in the International League? I hear Rhode Island is nice this time of year.

It will probably play better than Clay Burkett and his 88 mph fastball and 86 mph changeup and t\he six other pitches he throws that all look the same and go straight.

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

eepstein0 {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:Dude, both suck. Buchholz just doesn't have anything anymore - he throw in the high 80s and nothing moves.

Kelly's problem is all command, not stuff. But don't take it from me, argue with Farrell. "He's blessed with a golden arm and tremendous stuff, but the execution of it has not been as consistent," Red Sox manager John Farrell said.

John Farrell is a fucking moron. Watch him manage a game. The stuff is good, but it's nowhere near what people think.

How do we think Joe Kershaw's stuff will play in the International League? I hear Rhode Island is nice this time of year.

It will probably play better than Clay Burkett and his 88 mph fastball and 86 mph changeup and t\he six other pitches he throws that all look the same and go straight.

You forgot the 87 mph cutter that doesn't cut