EagleOutsider.com

It's official: Valentine OUT.

http://www.boston.com/sports/2012/10/04/bobby-valentine-fired-red-sox/Ofo9kWOqKj5QUV6qqor4EI/story.html

Endless Mike {l Wrote}:It's official: Valentine OUT.

http://www.boston.com/sports/2012/10/04/bobby-valentine-fired-red-sox/Ofo9kWOqKj5QUV6qqor4EI/story.html

I think Bobby Valentine is an easy scapegoat here but not the source of the teams poor performance. Injuries, bad roster decisions, etc.

redsox management is in disarray since Epstein left. Forcing the position coaches on the head coach is a good example of why BC should let their next football coach choose his entire staff.

The team would've been terrible no matter who was managing it.

hansen {l Wrote}:

Endless Mike {l Wrote}:It's official: Valentine OUT.

http://www.boston.com/sports/2012/10/04/bobby-valentine-fired-red-sox/Ofo9kWOqKj5QUV6qqor4EI/story.html

I think Bobby Valentine is an easy scapegoat here but not the source of the teams poor performance. Injuries, bad roster decisions, etc.

redsox management is in disarray since Epstein left. Forcing the position coaches on the head coach is a good example of why BC should let their next football coach choose his entire staff.

Theo Epstein is the biggest part of the problem, and the collapse started 6 weeks before he left.

hansen {l Wrote}:

Endless Mike {l Wrote}:It's official: Valentine OUT.

http://www.boston.com/sports/2012/10/04/bobby-valentine-fired-red-sox/Ofo9kWOqKj5QUV6qqor4EI/story.html

I think Bobby Valentine is an easy scapegoat here but not the source of the teams poor performance. Injuries, bad roster decisions, etc.

redsox management is in disarray since Epstein left. Forcing the position coaches on the head coach is a good example of why BC should let their next football coach choose his entire staff.

Valentine should not have been hired in the first place. This team had problems before he arrived but he did nothing to help.

The Red Sox need a NUCLEAR ENEMA.

People keep saying Theo left the cupboard bare and while I agree to an extent with regards to the 25-man roster, the farm system is probably as well stocked now as it has been since the 2004-2006 period, when they at various points had Pedroia, Paps, Hanley, Youk, Shoppach, David Murphy, Lester, Buchholz, MDC and I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of others. Bradley, Bogaerts and Barnes, in particular, have very high ceilings.

I hope Doug Mirabelli gets a fair shake for the manager position.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:People keep saying Theo left the cupboard bare and while I agree to an extent with regards to the 25-man roster, the farm system is probably as well stocked now as it has been since the 2004-2006 period, when they at various points had Pedroia, Paps, Hanley, Youk, Shoppach, David Murphy, Lester, Buchholz, MDC and I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of others. Bradley, Bogaerts and Barnes, in particular, have very high ceilings.

Theo had a lot of hits and quite a few misses. The money he had to play with made the team good - he could afford to miss as much as he did. It was when he struck out on what he thought was the core of the next generation of Sox because he misjudged the character of a couple of players with great stats that killed him. Lackey, Gonzo, Crawford = end of Theo. Had one or 2 of them hit, instead of all three missing, and then the nice farm system supplemented with Middlebrooks and others, they would probably be in the playoffs, and he would probably be here.

hansen {l Wrote}:

Endless Mike {l Wrote}:It's official: Valentine OUT.

http://www.boston.com/sports/2012/10/04/bobby-valentine-fired-red-sox/Ofo9kWOqKj5QUV6qqor4EI/story.html

I think Bobby Valentine is an easy scapegoat here but not the source of the teams poor performance. Injuries, bad roster decisions, etc.

redsox management is in disarray since Epstein left. Forcing the position coaches on the head coach is a good example of why BC should let their next football coach choose his entire staff.

While he wasn't the source of the problems, he was one of many problems. And, he definitely wasn't part of the solution.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:People keep saying Theo left the cupboard bare and while I agree to an extent with regards to the 25-man roster, the farm system is probably as well stocked now as it has been since the 2004-2006 period, when they at various points had Pedroia, Paps, Hanley, Youk, Shoppach, David Murphy, Lester, Buchholz, MDC and I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of others. Bradley, Bogaerts and Barnes, in particular, have very high ceilings.

Theo had a lot of hits and quite a few misses. The money he had to play with made the team good - he could afford to miss as much as he did. It was when he struck out on what he thought was the core of the next generation of Sox because he misjudged the character of a couple of players with great stats that killed him. Lackey, Gonzo, Crawford = end of Theo. Had one or 2 of them hit, instead of all three missing, and then the nice farm system supplemented with Middlebrooks and others, they would probably be in the playoffs, and he would probably be here.

Not saying you're wrong, but what about Gonzalez made him a miss? I thought he was pretty fantastic. Lackey and Crawford blow, and at least with Lackey that was painfully obvious the moment they picked him up.

cvilleagle {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:People keep saying Theo left the cupboard bare and while I agree to an extent with regards to the 25-man roster, the farm system is probably as well stocked now as it has been since the 2004-2006 period, when they at various points had Pedroia, Paps, Hanley, Youk, Shoppach, David Murphy, Lester, Buchholz, MDC and I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of others. Bradley, Bogaerts and Barnes, in particular, have very high ceilings.

Theo had a lot of hits and quite a few misses. The money he had to play with made the team good - he could afford to miss as much as he did. It was when he struck out on what he thought was the core of the next generation of Sox because he misjudged the character of a couple of players with great stats that killed him. Lackey, Gonzo, Crawford = end of Theo. Had one or 2 of them hit, instead of all three missing, and then the nice farm system supplemented with Middlebrooks and others, they would probably be in the playoffs, and he would probably be here.

Not saying you're wrong, but what about Gonzalez made him a miss? I thought he was pretty fantastic. Lackey and Crawford blow, and at least with Lackey that was painfully obvious the moment they picked him up.

Really? Gonzo hit like 6 HRs in the last 4 months of last season, all in 2 games. He had 18 and 108 this season, and barely hit for power for either team. And with the exception of a walk-off double off of the monster in a game that I attended, I can rarely remember a clutch hit. More to the point, a wet paper towel is a better leader and teammate, and he blames everything on god. He sucks. Just another stat machine that will never win shit.

Just like JD Drew.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Just like JD Drew.

He's a much better player than JD Drew, and one cannot deny his obvious talent, but yes. At least Gonzo helped the team by getting his. I think of him more as Wade Boggs with power.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Just like JD Drew.

He's a much better player than JD Drew, and one cannot deny his obvious talent, but yes. At least Gonzo helped the team by getting his. I think of him more as Wade Boggs with power.

This was a hit.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Just like JD Drew.

He's a much better player than JD Drew, and one cannot deny his obvious talent, but yes. At least Gonzo helped the team by getting his. I think of him more as Wade Boggs with power.

This was a hit.

Blind squirrel, etc.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Just like JD Drew.

He's a much better player than JD Drew, and one cannot deny his obvious talent, but yes. At least Gonzo helped the team by getting his. I think of him more as Wade Boggs with power.

This was a hit.

Clutch squirrel, etc.

fixed

I confess to having no idea what either of you are trying to say.

It's either "failed pompous mocking of people that think clutch is a thing" or "failed pompous mocking of people that don't realize JD Drew actually had value because his 100 walks made up for the fact that he hit .252 and didn't give a shit." I get confused.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:I confess to having no idea what either of you are trying to say.

I was saying nothing other than being a wise-ass interjector. Carry on.

I was trolling. I'm of the thought that his contract was mediocre as opposed to a disaster but I don't care about it enough to put any effort into it outside of linking to a FanGraphs page so it can do all the work for me.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:I was trolling. I'm of the thought that his contract was mediocre as opposed to a disaster but I don't care about it enough to put any effort into it outside of linking to a FanGraphs page so it can do all the work for me.

I wasn't judging him based on his contract, which wasn't horrible for a guy with those stats. I was judging him on the fact that he brought absolutely nothing to the table other than stats. He would have done less damage mailing his baseball card to John Henry. (this goes for both players)

Gonzo and Drew are the perfect example of why athletes play baseball and nerds play strat-o-matic.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:I was trolling. I'm of the thought that his contract was mediocre as opposed to a disaster but I don't care about it enough to put any effort into it outside of linking to a FanGraphs page so it can do all the work for me.

I wasn't judging him based on his contract, which wasn't horrible for a guy with those stats. I was judging him on the fact that he brought absolutely nothing to the table other than stats. He would have done less damage mailing his baseball card to John Henry. (this goes for both players)

Gonzo and Drew are the perfect example of why athletes play baseball and nerds play strat-o-matic.

A) Look at his 2008 and 2009 seasons
B) Your final point literally makes no sense in the context of this argument unless you are implying only athletes should be GMs

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:I was trolling. I'm of the thought that his contract was mediocre as opposed to a disaster but I don't care about it enough to put any effort into it outside of linking to a FanGraphs page so it can do all the work for me.

I wasn't judging him based on his contract, which wasn't horrible for a guy with those stats. I was judging him on the fact that he brought absolutely nothing to the table other than stats. He would have done less damage mailing his baseball card to John Henry. (this goes for both players)

Gonzo and Drew are the perfect example of why athletes play baseball and nerds play strat-o-matic.

A) Look at his 2008 and 2009 seasons
B) Your final point literally makes no sense in the context of this argument unless you are implying only athletes should be GMs

I can't look at his seasons, I can only look at stats. Stats don't play baseball.
My last point makes perfect sense. Stat analysis has its place. But when it has taken over the game to the point that people can defend an ass clown like JD Drew, people like Theo Epstein should STFU and try to crunch some numbers to find a friggin pitcher. "The game is about runs, can't score if you don't get on base, Drew gets on base...." Blech.

Man, that must make it tough for you to truly appreciate the greats that came before you.

In other news, must be a slow day at work for you. Nice troll attempt. I said I wasn't going to put much effort in.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:Man, that must make it tough for you to truly appreciate the greats that came before you.

In other news, must be a slow day at work for you. Nice troll attempt. I said I wasn't going to put much effort in.

I tried. Don't feel like working. You and campion usually make good targets.

It was pretty transparent as I knew you aren't even stupid enough to believe some of the things you were spewing.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:It was pretty transparent as I knew you aren't even stupid enough to believe some of the things you were spewing.

Oh, no, I certainly believe that getting rid of Gonzo and all of his stats is a net plus for the Red Sox in the long run. I also believe that despite being one of the best hitters in baseball, he will never sniff a ring.

I can't really say I have an opinion on the potential head coaches that have been named so far. I don't really get the love affair with Farrell but I wouldn't even know who I would want. Is it just me or does it seem like it's a lot harder to get excited about baseball managers than football coaches?

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:It was pretty transparent as I knew you aren't even stupid enough to believe some of the things you were spewing.

Oh, no, I certainly believe that getting rid of Gonzo and all of his stats is a net plus for the Red Sox in the long run. I also believe that despite being one of the best hitters in baseball, he will never sniff a ring.

I agree with the latter but that's mainly because he's on the Dodgers and, if they're willing to take on those three albatrosses, well, let's just say I'm not too confident in their player management skills.

Endless Mike {l Wrote}:I can't really say I have an opinion on the potential head coaches that have been named so far. I don't really get the love affair with Farrell but I wouldn't even know who I would want. Is it just me or does it seem like it's a lot harder to get excited about baseball managers than football coaches?

Baseball managers should, at least in theory, have less of an effect on the outcome of the games than football coaches. Whereas football coaches are involved in every single moment of the game, managers can typically sit on their ass for five innings before making a big decision. A lot of their job is left up to player execution. And, no, I don't consider shifts or that such to be a big decision.