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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby cvilleagle on Wed Aug 15, 2012 3:08 pm

Lester sucks, Beckett is past his prime. Lackey was always a terrible addition, as was Crawford. They ditched Youk, who was one of the better players they had left. Keep Middlebrooks, Ross, Buchholz, Ortiz, Pedroia, Gonzalez, and Ellsbury . You can blow the rest of this team up. Also, kick Valentine and especially Cherington out on their asses.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby flyingelvii on Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:07 pm

The Youkilis trade is pretty much the only defensible move Cherington has made so far this year and, even then, he was only able to get back a middling prospect and a guy that was DFA'd a few weeks after getting acquired. Can't wait to see what other middle reliever acquisitions he has up his sleeve.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby twballgame9 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 4:19 pm

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:The Youkilis trade is pretty much the only defensible move Cherington has made so far this year and, even then, he was only able to get back a middling prospect and a guy that was DFA'd a few weeks after getting acquired. Can't wait to see what other middle reliever acquisitions he has up his sleeve.


I agree with this.

I also have said that this is all about the players. If this is Bobby V's fault, why did they all (with the exception of Ellsbury) bail on their manager last September to the tune of one of the worst collapses in history.

Sad part is that other than Beckett being done, this team has plenty of talent, and actually has received excellent performances from Ortiz and the non-stars. Imagine where this team would be without Aceves, Ortiz, Ross, Middlebrooks, Salty and even guys like Aviles and Nava.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby flyingelvii on Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:17 pm

I do often like to imagine the team without Nick Punto.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby EagleNYC on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:24 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
flyingelvii {l Wrote}:The Youkilis trade is pretty much the only defensible move Cherington has made so far this year and, even then, he was only able to get back a middling prospect and a guy that was DFA'd a few weeks after getting acquired. Can't wait to see what other middle reliever acquisitions he has up his sleeve.


I agree with this.

I also have said that this is all about the players. If this is Bobby V's fault, why did they all (with the exception of Ellsbury) bail on their manager last September to the tune of one of the worst collapses in history.

Sad part is that other than Beckett being done, this team has plenty of talent, and actually has received excellent performances from Ortiz and the non-stars. Imagine where this team would be without Aceves, Ortiz, Ross, Middlebrooks, Salty and even guys like Aviles and Nava.


The AL East is absolutely brutal from top to bottom. There are no teams you can get fat off, as in the past. Beckett and Lester have been downright awful by any standard, let alone as front of the rotation starters. The emphasis on big FA signings has gutted this team, because all of the significant ones (Lackey, Crawford, Dice) have been busts for the past 12 months (or longer). Contrast that with the solid production by unheralded guys that TW pointed out, and it underscores that there is no substitute for performance. Example: Kuroda has apparently learned how to pitch in the AL, after a terrible run of starts to begin the year. Even though I was probably the only one who thought he'd do well (I thought he'd be an adequate #3), he's gone out and pitched above his ability. Putting contracts and age aside, would I trade him for Lester today? YES, because Lester is the superior talent. But that doesn't mean the trade would work out.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby Endless Mike on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:28 am

I liked the Youk trade. I wish they had done more.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby bignick33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:32 am

Endless Mike {l Wrote}:I liked the Youk trade. I wish they had done more.


You mean like take Beckett and Lackey out back and shoot them? There's no deadline for that.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby Endless Mike on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:37 am

I just cannot believe the front office actually thought they would be competitive back in Spring Training when they were looking at Aaron Cook or Vicente Padilla to fill out the rotation.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby bignick33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:38 am

Endless Mike {l Wrote}:I just cannot believe the front office actually thought they would be competitive back in Spring Training when they were looking at Aaron Cook or Vicente Padilla to fill out the rotation.


And those have been two of the best pitchers!
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby Endless Mike on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:39 am

bignick33 {l Wrote}:
Endless Mike {l Wrote}:I liked the Youk trade. I wish they had done more.


You mean like take Beckett and Lackey out back and shoot them? There's no deadline for that.


Isn't that what they did with DiceK? I mean, I heard they found a nice farm where he can run around.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby bignick33 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:46 am

Endless Mike {l Wrote}:
bignick33 {l Wrote}:
Endless Mike {l Wrote}:I liked the Youk trade. I wish they had done more.


You mean like take Beckett and Lackey out back and shoot them? There's no deadline for that.


Isn't that what they did with DiceK? I mean, I heard they found a nice farm where he can run around.


We also could isolate them on a island and turn it into some sort of "The Most Dangerous Game" gambling opportunity.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby DickWashBowl on Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:06 am

I know something that may help

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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:09 pm

Endless Mike {l Wrote}:I just cannot believe the front office actually thought they would be competitive back in Spring Training when they were looking at Aaron Cook or Vicente Padilla to fill out the rotation.


This team should be competitive. Tough to predict Beckett and Lester both sucking this bad. If both had pitched to their career averages, the Sox would be solidly in second place right now, even with the injuries to Crawford, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Bailey, Ross and Ortiz.

This is a team that ran out a rookie at 3B, Nava in LF, Sweeney in RF and Kalish in CF with Ciracio at 2B for a long period and still is in the top 2-3 teams in runs scored. This season is all about Beckett being done and Lester being a mental midget.

You could see it coming with Lester though. Even in his best seasons, he was prone to nibbling on the corners and throwing 112 pitches on 4 and 1/3 IP. If you are lefthanded with nasty stuff and a 96 mph fastball, throw strikes.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby Endless Mike on Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:26 am

RIP "Mr. Red Sox", Johnny Pesky.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby Endless Mike on Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:29 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
Endless Mike {l Wrote}:I just cannot believe the front office actually thought they would be competitive back in Spring Training when they were looking at Aaron Cook or Vicente Padilla to fill out the rotation.


This team should be competitive. Tough to predict Beckett and Lester both sucking this bad. If both had pitched to their career averages, the Sox would be solidly in second place right now, even with the injuries to Crawford, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Bailey, Ross and Ortiz.

This is a team that ran out a rookie at 3B, Nava in LF, Sweeney in RF and Kalish in CF with Ciracio at 2B for a long period and still is in the top 2-3 teams in runs scored. This season is all about Beckett being done and Lester being a mental midget.

You could see it coming with Lester though. Even in his best seasons, he was prone to nibbling on the corners and throwing 112 pitches on 4 and 1/3 IP. If you are lefthanded with nasty stuff and a 96 mph fastball, throw strikes.


Maybe competitive is the wrong word. But I think most people saw that rotation even with Lester and Beckett and thought the rest of it would be a problem. What's really frustrating is that the lineup has been great, the bullpen which has always been an issue has been solid, but the rotation is just absolute dogshit.

Crawford is allegedly getting Tommy John surgery tomorrow. Whatevs. Does that take as long for hitters to recover?
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby flyingelvii on Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:24 pm

Endless Mike {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
Endless Mike {l Wrote}:I just cannot believe the front office actually thought they would be competitive back in Spring Training when they were looking at Aaron Cook or Vicente Padilla to fill out the rotation.


This team should be competitive. Tough to predict Beckett and Lester both sucking this bad. If both had pitched to their career averages, the Sox would be solidly in second place right now, even with the injuries to Crawford, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Bailey, Ross and Ortiz.

This is a team that ran out a rookie at 3B, Nava in LF, Sweeney in RF and Kalish in CF with Ciracio at 2B for a long period and still is in the top 2-3 teams in runs scored. This season is all about Beckett being done and Lester being a mental midget.

You could see it coming with Lester though. Even in his best seasons, he was prone to nibbling on the corners and throwing 112 pitches on 4 and 1/3 IP. If you are lefthanded with nasty stuff and a 96 mph fastball, throw strikes.


Maybe competitive is the wrong word. But I think most people saw that rotation even with Lester and Beckett and thought the rest of it would be a problem. What's really frustrating is that the lineup has been great, the bullpen which has always been an issue has been solid, but the rotation is just absolute dogshit.

Crawford is allegedly getting Tommy John surgery tomorrow. Whatevs. Does that take as long for hitters to recover?

I don't think it takes as long but why this didn't happen about a month or so ago at the latest is beyond me.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby EagleNYC on Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:19 pm

Yankees are in free fall and their pitching staff is a MASH unit. Rays doing their annual August explosion.

Meanwhile, Gonzalez has apparently cleared waivers and the claim belongs to the Dodgers. Wonder if the can/will agree on a trade.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby cvilleagle on Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:36 pm

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Yankees are in free fall and their pitching staff is a MASH unit. Rays doing their annual August explosion.

Meanwhile, Gonzalez has apparently cleared waivers and the claim belongs to the Dodgers. Wonder if the can/will agree on a trade.

Why? Can't say I understand trading Gonzalez at all. He is fantastic.

EDIT: I mean, look, you can trade anyone for the right price, but they had better get an incredible haul for him.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby DavidGordonsFoot on Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:54 pm

cvilleagle {l Wrote}:
EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Yankees are in free fall and their pitching staff is a MASH unit. Rays doing their annual August explosion.

Meanwhile, Gonzalez has apparently cleared waivers and the claim belongs to the Dodgers. Wonder if the can/will agree on a trade.

Why? Can't say I understand trading Gonzalez at all. He is fantastic.

EDIT: I mean, look, you can trade anyone for the right price, but they had better get an incredible haul for him.


Agreed, and isn't it true that anyone LA sends back in a trade would have to clear waivers, as well?
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby cvilleagle on Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:59 pm

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:
cvilleagle {l Wrote}:
EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Yankees are in free fall and their pitching staff is a MASH unit. Rays doing their annual August explosion.

Meanwhile, Gonzalez has apparently cleared waivers and the claim belongs to the Dodgers. Wonder if the can/will agree on a trade.

Why? Can't say I understand trading Gonzalez at all. He is fantastic.

EDIT: I mean, look, you can trade anyone for the right price, but they had better get an incredible haul for him.


Agreed, and isn't it true that anyone LA sends back in a trade would have to clear waivers, as well?


Yes.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby ryfarls on Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:16 pm

I believe only major league roster guys have to clear through waivers. Dodgers also claimed Beckett and rumors that Crawford might be included in a deal for a buttload of prospects. Not sure who the dodgers have in their system but I assume the sox would be getting their top 2 atleast for those 3 guys. Looks like Magic is trying to build an NBA team in chavez ravine. Likelyhood of this happening though is not too high.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby claver2010 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:27 pm

Steve Berthiaume ‏@SBerthiaumeESPN
Wow. #RedSox #Dodgers from @GordonEdes: RT/working on deal that send AGon, Crawford, Beckett & Punto to LA. Hurdles remain, but closing in.


Holy shit
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby DavidGordonsFoot on Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:34 pm

claver2010 {l Wrote}:Steve Berthiaume ‏@SBerthiaumeESPN
Wow. #RedSox #Dodgers from @GordonEdes: RT/working on deal that send AGon, Crawford, Beckett & Punto to LA. Hurdles remain, but closing in.


Holy shit


Unless LA agrees to pay every last nickel remaining on those contracts, this deal has to include an established veteran going the other way, no? Would the Dodgers trade Kemp?!? Hanley Ramirez?
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby EagleNYC on Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:44 pm

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:
claver2010 {l Wrote}:Steve Berthiaume ‏@SBerthiaumeESPN
Wow. #RedSox #Dodgers from @GordonEdes: RT/working on deal that send AGon, Crawford, Beckett & Punto to LA. Hurdles remain, but closing in.


Holy shit


Unless LA agrees to pay every last nickel remaining on those contracts, this deal has to include an established veteran going the other way, no? Would the Dodgers trade Kemp?!? Hanley Ramirez?


Not unless they're brain damaged. With Crawford injured and owed money forever, it would negate the benefit of Gonzo, so in my eyes, unless the Sox pay nearly all of his salary, it would serve as a basis for sending very little for Gonzalez.

The Beckett part makes the most sense, if only because he'd have a chance pitching in Dodger Stadium.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby bignick33 on Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:36 am

According to Globe: "The Red Sox are going to responsible for only $10-12 million of the $272 million they owed to Adrian Gonzalez, Carl Crawford, Josh Beckett and Nick Punto." That answers that. I'm pleased that's all it took to ship Punto out of town.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby twballgame9 on Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:06 am

THANK GOD.

Beckett is done, Crawford is a mental midget, and even though Gonzo is a great hitter, he is slow as shit and his lassez-faire, I love God schtick was getting really tired. 3 of the 5 Sox that made me hate this team, gone. Now if they can lose Lackey, I will make an effort to root for Lester again.

Two keys to this trade: an almost can't miss fireballing pitching prospect and tons and tons of freed up money. Not on the Hamilton bus, but I'd be up for shipping Iglesias and Lavarnway or Boegerts for Felix. If Hamilton comes here with Lackey still on the roster, bad shit will happen.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby claver2010 on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:05 pm

Hamilton in this market would be a disaster
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby Endless Mike on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:16 pm

cvilleagle {l Wrote}:
EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Yankees are in free fall and their pitching staff is a MASH unit. Rays doing their annual August explosion.

Meanwhile, Gonzalez has apparently cleared waivers and the claim belongs to the Dodgers. Wonder if the can/will agree on a trade.

Why? Can't say I understand trading Gonzalez at all. He is fantastic.

EDIT: I mean, look, you can trade anyone for the right price, but they had better get an incredible haul for him.


They had to throw in someone like Gonzalez because he's the only player who is worth anything right now.

De La Rosa is filthy and has already proven he can pitch in the Majors. Webster is a legit pitching prospect. Sands was one of their top hitting prospects but has been passed by a few guys in their farm system; he's a very nice acquisition too. Too bad about Gonzalez, but they needed to blow this team up. I like this.

I just wish they could have thrown Lackey in there.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby branchinator on Sat Aug 25, 2012 1:43 pm

Dodgers must be playing with Monopoly money. I love that they even took Punto. I bet the Nationals are so jealous that they're stuck with Jason Werth for 5 more years at monster money, yet, the Sox got out of the Crawford fiasco.
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Re: Red Sox Weirdos

Postby bignick33 on Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:05 pm

claver2010 {l Wrote}:Hamilton in this market would be a disaster


He wouldn't be as big a disaster as Greinke.
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