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john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

Done and Halladay to Philly.

ryfarls {l Wrote}:hes a headcase.

What makes you say this...cause he gets pissed when he has to give up the ball at the end of his starts?

auggiebc {l Wrote}:Send Clay and some prospects to SD for Adrian. Jed will bite. He loves Clay. Do it.

Hoyer knows the system in and out. That makes me wary of making any deal with him. Probably starts with either Buck or Kelly and a combo of Kalish, Reddick, and Westmoreland. Sox system doesn't have a ton of depth and no real good pitching prospects sans Kelly (Tazawa isn't getting traded). Could also ask for Ellsbury but I don't think Theo would bit on that one.

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

You didn't watch the playoffs this year did you.

Anyway, 5/85 seems like a lot. I'm going to wait and see on this one, if only because I believe this sets up other moves (both good and bad... Buchholz is now surplus to requirements and can be moved, but Beckett won't take a dime less than 5/85 now).

(Insert emoticon with chinese man brushing his pointy beard).

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

auggiebc {l Wrote}:Send Clay and some prospects to SD for Adrian. Jed will bite. He loves Clay. Do it.

Hoyer knows the system in and out. That makes me wary of making any deal with him. Probably starts with either Buck or Kelly and a combo of Kalish, Reddick, and Westmoreland. Sox system doesn't have a ton of depth and no real good pitching prospects sans Kelly (Tazawa isn't getting traded). Could also ask for Ellsbury but I don't think Theo would bit on that one.

I don't think there is any way the Red Sox trade Westmoreland. He's probably the one untouchable in their system.

edit: But yes, I think any deal with the Padres will be one that benefits both sides, aka no trade rape.

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:crazy phillies rumor today re: halladay.

lee plus prospect to blue jays for halladay, mariners involved somehow.

angels might be screwed.

It doesn't make sense and sounds completely made up, except apparently Lee is unwilling to sign a long term deal and insists on testing the FA market, and Halladay does not have that caveat.

Apparently he has a physical scheduled for today or tomorrow.

It's no rumor. SI says it's done.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/14/phillies.halladay.lee/index.html?eref=sihp

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

I think Lackey will become a fan favorite in Boston. He's Brady Penny only with talent. He's firey, he's gritty, he'll stand up for his teammates, and he'll gut out alot of games. And there will be hardly any pressure (relatively speaking) on him. Instead of being the Ace of the Angels or Mets, he's the #3 on the Sox. I think he'll thrive here.

Holy Phillies.

Halladay is going to win like 24 games in that pitiful division/league.

auggiebc {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

I think Lackey will become a fan favorite in Boston. He's Brady Penny only with talent. He's firey, he's gritty, he'll stand up for his teammates, and he'll gut out alot of games. And there will be hardly any pressure (relatively speaking) on him. Instead of being the Ace of the Angels or Mets, he's the #3 on the Sox. I think he'll thrive here.

Intangible are overrated. They have single-handedly won Derek Jeter multiple Gold Gloves. Boston will love him if he pitches well. John Smoltz was all of those things. And he sucked. And I and many others wanted to run him out of town. And he is also one of my favorite non-Sox players ever.

buconvict {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

You didn't watch the playoffs this year did you.

Anyway, 5/85 seems like a lot. I'm going to wait and see on this one, if only because I believe this sets up other moves (both good and bad... Buchholz is now surplus to requirements and can be moved, but Beckett won't take a dime less than 5/85 now).

(Insert emoticon with chinese man brushing his pointy beard).

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6953/splits;_ylt=AiZFSKzcGqNw4kT2EB3mB7CFCLcF?year=career&type=Pitching

his career stats arent too appealing against the yankees and not to mention his stats agains the sox were about on par with those. yes i did watch these playoffs and every other games hes pitched against the red sox and at no point before any of those games was i saying "oh no john lackey is pitching tonight." I'll give him these two things, he's got a good fastball, albeit pretty straight, and hes been pretty durable. on top of him yelling and going ape shit when he gets taken out, he clearly gets way too flustered with men on base and when his teammates make errors. not exactly a stat but something you can see when you watch the game. im just not a big john lackey fan, never have been. personal opinion i know, but i dont see the point in signing him to such a long contract and so much money when theres a void in left field and at 3rd.

A 233 game sample size is more telling than a 16 or 30 game sample size IMO.

You sing him to this contract because the Sox are probably going to go defense and pitching this year. Pitchers benefit from good defense. The offense is weaker but not that much weaker, considering the corpse of Jason Varitek is no longer a starter.

buconvict {l Wrote}:Holy Phillies.

Halladay is going to win like 24 games in that pitiful division/league.

and we won't have another starter with more than 12, awesome.

ryfarls {l Wrote}:

buconvict {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

You didn't watch the playoffs this year did you.

Anyway, 5/85 seems like a lot. I'm going to wait and see on this one, if only because I believe this sets up other moves (both good and bad... Buchholz is now surplus to requirements and can be moved, but Beckett won't take a dime less than 5/85 now).

(Insert emoticon with chinese man brushing his pointy beard).

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6953/splits;_ylt=AiZFSKzcGqNw4kT2EB3mB7CFCLcF?year=career&type=Pitching

his career stats arent too appealing against the yankees and not to mention his stats agains the sox were about on par with those. yes i did watch these playoffs and every other games hes pitched against the red sox and at no point before any of those games was i saying "oh no john lackey is pitching tonight." I'll give him these two things, he's got a good fastball, albeit pretty straight, and hes been pretty durable. on top of him yelling and going ape shit when he gets taken out, he clearly gets way too flustered with men on base and when his teammates make errors. not exactly a stat but something you can see when you watch the game. im just not a big john lackey fan, never have been. personal opinion i know, but i dont see the point in signing him to such a long contract and so much money when theres a void in left field and at 3rd.

So when he went 8 1/3 no hit innings at Fenway 19 months ago, you weren't impressed?

The guy's stats speak for themselves, and as the #3 (maybe #4) starter, he'll be awesome.

buconvict {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:

buconvict {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

You didn't watch the playoffs this year did you.

Anyway, 5/85 seems like a lot. I'm going to wait and see on this one, if only because I believe this sets up other moves (both good and bad... Buchholz is now surplus to requirements and can be moved, but Beckett won't take a dime less than 5/85 now).

(Insert emoticon with chinese man brushing his pointy beard).

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6953/splits;_ylt=AiZFSKzcGqNw4kT2EB3mB7CFCLcF?year=career&type=Pitching

his career stats arent too appealing against the yankees and not to mention his stats agains the sox were about on par with those. yes i did watch these playoffs and every other games hes pitched against the red sox and at no point before any of those games was i saying "oh no john lackey is pitching tonight." I'll give him these two things, he's got a good fastball, albeit pretty straight, and hes been pretty durable. on top of him yelling and going ape shit when he gets taken out, he clearly gets way too flustered with men on base and when his teammates make errors. not exactly a stat but something you can see when you watch the game. im just not a big john lackey fan, never have been. personal opinion i know, but i dont see the point in signing him to such a long contract and so much money when theres a void in left field and at 3rd.

So when he went 8 1/3 no hit innings at Fenway 19 months ago, you weren't impressed?

The guy's stats speak for themselves, and as the #3 (maybe #4) starter, he'll be awesome.

you mean the one where he gave up 2 homers immediately after losing the no hitter?

p.s. he needds to get rid of that fucking mole. i dont want to look at that every fifth day. this has nothing to do with my argument, really big moles just bug me.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

auggiebc {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

I think Lackey will become a fan favorite in Boston. He's Brady Penny only with talent. He's firey, he's gritty, he'll stand up for his teammates, and he'll gut out alot of games. And there will be hardly any pressure (relatively speaking) on him. Instead of being the Ace of the Angels or Mets, he's the #3 on the Sox. I think he'll thrive here.

Intangible are overrated. They have single-handedly won Derek Jeter multiple Gold Gloves. Boston will love him if he pitches well. John Smoltz was all of those things. And he sucked. And I and many others wanted to run him out of town. And he is also one of my favorite non-Sox players ever.

Confidence is a huge part of baseball, and it is "intangible." It also happens to be what separated a guy like Shilling from say, Carl Pavano (or to pick a less extreme example, Shilling '98 from Shilling '01). Not factoring in "intangibles" leads to monstrous teams like the '93 Mets, any middle '00s NYY team and many other examples.

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

auggiebc {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

I think Lackey will become a fan favorite in Boston. He's Brady Penny only with talent. He's firey, he's gritty, he'll stand up for his teammates, and he'll gut out alot of games. And there will be hardly any pressure (relatively speaking) on him. Instead of being the Ace of the Angels or Mets, he's the #3 on the Sox. I think he'll thrive here.

Intangible are overrated. They have single-handedly won Derek Jeter multiple Gold Gloves. Boston will love him if he pitches well. John Smoltz was all of those things. And he sucked. And I and many others wanted to run him out of town. And he is also one of my favorite non-Sox players ever.

Confidence is a huge part of baseball, and it is "intangible." It also happens to be what separated a guy like Shilling from say, Carl Pavano (or to pick a less extreme example, Shilling '98 from Shilling '01). Not factoring in "intangibles" leads to monstrous teams like the '93 Mets, any middle '00s NYY team and many other examples.

mods please move this to the (imaginary) baseball forum.

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

auggiebc {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

I think Lackey will become a fan favorite in Boston. He's Brady Penny only with talent. He's firey, he's gritty, he'll stand up for his teammates, and he'll gut out alot of games. And there will be hardly any pressure (relatively speaking) on him. Instead of being the Ace of the Angels or Mets, he's the #3 on the Sox. I think he'll thrive here.

Intangible are overrated. They have single-handedly won Derek Jeter multiple Gold Gloves. Boston will love him if he pitches well. John Smoltz was all of those things. And he sucked. And I and many others wanted to run him out of town. And he is also one of my favorite non-Sox players ever.

Confidence is a huge part of baseball, and it is "intangible." It also happens to be what separated a guy like Shilling from say, Carl Pavano (or to pick a less extreme example, Shilling '98 from Shilling '01). Not factoring in "intangibles" leads to monstrous teams like the '93 Mets, any middle '00s NYY team and many other examples.

So John Lackey's consistent performance and good numbers over the past few years is not indicative of his true performance because he lacks "confidence?" How do you explain his success with LAAAAAA? Luck?

ryfarls {l Wrote}:

buconvict {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:

buconvict {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

You didn't watch the playoffs this year did you.

Anyway, 5/85 seems like a lot. I'm going to wait and see on this one, if only because I believe this sets up other moves (both good and bad... Buchholz is now surplus to requirements and can be moved, but Beckett won't take a dime less than 5/85 now).

(Insert emoticon with chinese man brushing his pointy beard).

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6953/splits;_ylt=AiZFSKzcGqNw4kT2EB3mB7CFCLcF?year=career&type=Pitching

his career stats arent too appealing against the yankees and not to mention his stats agains the sox were about on par with those. yes i did watch these playoffs and every other games hes pitched against the red sox and at no point before any of those games was i saying "oh no john lackey is pitching tonight." I'll give him these two things, he's got a good fastball, albeit pretty straight, and hes been pretty durable. on top of him yelling and going ape shit when he gets taken out, he clearly gets way too flustered with men on base and when his teammates make errors. not exactly a stat but something you can see when you watch the game. im just not a big john lackey fan, never have been. personal opinion i know, but i dont see the point in signing him to such a long contract and so much money when theres a void in left field and at 3rd.

So when he went 8 1/3 no hit innings at Fenway 19 months ago, you weren't impressed?

The guy's stats speak for themselves, and as the #3 (maybe #4) starter, he'll be awesome.

you mean the one where he gave up 2 homers immediately after losing the no hitter?

p.s. he needds to get rid of that fucking mole. i dont want to look at that every fifth day. this has nothing to do with my argument, really big moles just bug me.

So a start in which a pitcher holds the defending Champs to 0 hits through 8.1 innings and ends up getting the win going 8.2 innings/3runs doesn't impress you?

I bet you are one of those "fans" who boo's JD Drew.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

auggiebc {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

I think Lackey will become a fan favorite in Boston. He's Brady Penny only with talent. He's firey, he's gritty, he'll stand up for his teammates, and he'll gut out alot of games. And there will be hardly any pressure (relatively speaking) on him. Instead of being the Ace of the Angels or Mets, he's the #3 on the Sox. I think he'll thrive here.

Intangible are overrated. They have single-handedly won Derek Jeter multiple Gold Gloves. Boston will love him if he pitches well. John Smoltz was all of those things. And he sucked. And I and many others wanted to run him out of town. And he is also one of my favorite non-Sox players ever.

Confidence is a huge part of baseball, and it is "intangible." It also happens to be what separated a guy like Shilling from say, Carl Pavano (or to pick a less extreme example, Shilling '98 from Shilling '01). Not factoring in "intangibles" leads to monstrous teams like the '93 Mets, any middle '00s NYY team and many other examples.

So John Lackey's consistent performance and good numbers over the past few years is not indicative of his true performance because he lacks "confidence?" How do you explain his success with LAAAAAA? Luck?

Sorry to use a tired rhetorical device but "project much?"

Show me where I said Lackey had a confidence problem- show me where I criticized the signing. I'll wait.

Rather then wait, I'll explain: I think Lackey DOES have confidence, which is one reason I wrote (on this very thread) that it was a good signing. In fact, I wrote my last post in response to yours belittling the comments that Lackey is gritty and could thrive in Boston- you appear to be of the opinion that he'll be good because he's good, and the gritty/gutting out games part is just some mythical intangible.

My bad. Mixed up you with the initial poster about it. Finals week has me on edge. Carry on.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:My bad. Mixed up you with the initial poster about it. Finals week has me on edge. Carry on.

No worries, I figured as much.

Stop reading this nonsense and start studying. Or just go to MA's.

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:My bad. Mixed up you with the initial poster about it. Finals week has me on edge. Carry on.

No worries, I figured as much.

Stop reading this nonsense and start studying. Or just go to MA's.

Reading this has kept me sane the last five days. And will for another four.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

auggiebc {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

I think Lackey will become a fan favorite in Boston. He's Brady Penny only with talent. He's firey, he's gritty, he'll stand up for his teammates, and he'll gut out alot of games. And there will be hardly any pressure (relatively speaking) on him. Instead of being the Ace of the Angels or Mets, he's the #3 on the Sox. I think he'll thrive here.

Intangible are overrated. They have single-handedly won Derek Jeter multiple Gold Gloves. Boston will love him if he pitches well. John Smoltz was all of those things. And he sucked. And I and many others wanted to run him out of town. And he is also one of my favorite non-Sox players ever.

can't compare John Smoltz to John Lackey. Smoltz was a reclaimation project, a "nothing-to-lose" investment coming off major surgery.

Lackey was the ace of the team who went to the ALCS 6 weeks ago.

buconvict {l Wrote}:
I don't think there is any way the Red Sox trade Westmoreland. He's probably the one untouchable in their system.

I think for Adrian Gonzalez, Westmoreland is very tradeable. I don't think anyone is untouchable in that scenario, it'll just be the number of prospects.

I'm weary of five-year pitching contracts but you probably can't sign a top starter for less than five years nowadays with the Sabbathia, Burnett, Zito and other contracts. I don't think they'll extend Beckett because not only will be be a free agent after next season, Halladay (unless he extends with the Phillies) will also be a free agent. There are probably some other pitchers available then too.

Signing Lackey means two big things for me: Buchholz is now available in an Adrian Gonzalez trade and that signing a big bat will not be as high a priority. I'm with that. While Holliday and Bay are the best hitters available this offseason, I don't think either are truly elite. We've seen Bay down the stretch and in the postseason the past two years. As good as he's been, he's not worth what he wants. Harold Reynolds on MLB Network now is saying that the Sox aren't really out with Bay and he makes some good arguments based on how much money they had in the Teixeira hunt last year.

I really don't want to see them sign Beltre. He had that one big homerun year and has been average offensively since. Whatever defense he has can be found in other third basemen.

I think the trading of Halladay is contingent on a new deal.

claver2010 {l Wrote}:I think the trading of Halladay is contingent on a new deal.

Rumors flying around that Halladay's extension will be something in the neighborhood of 3/70

buconvict {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:

buconvict {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:

buconvict {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

You didn't watch the playoffs this year did you.

Anyway, 5/85 seems like a lot. I'm going to wait and see on this one, if only because I believe this sets up other moves (both good and bad... Buchholz is now surplus to requirements and can be moved, but Beckett won't take a dime less than 5/85 now).

(Insert emoticon with chinese man brushing his pointy beard).

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6953/splits;_ylt=AiZFSKzcGqNw4kT2EB3mB7CFCLcF?year=career&type=Pitching

his career stats arent too appealing against the yankees and not to mention his stats agains the sox were about on par with those. yes i did watch these playoffs and every other games hes pitched against the red sox and at no point before any of those games was i saying "oh no john lackey is pitching tonight." I'll give him these two things, he's got a good fastball, albeit pretty straight, and hes been pretty durable. on top of him yelling and going ape shit when he gets taken out, he clearly gets way too flustered with men on base and when his teammates make errors. not exactly a stat but something you can see when you watch the game. im just not a big john lackey fan, never have been. personal opinion i know, but i dont see the point in signing him to such a long contract and so much money when theres a void in left field and at 3rd.

So when he went 8 1/3 no hit innings at Fenway 19 months ago, you weren't impressed?

The guy's stats speak for themselves, and as the #3 (maybe #4) starter, he'll be awesome.

you mean the one where he gave up 2 homers immediately after losing the no hitter?

p.s. he needds to get rid of that fucking mole. i dont want to look at that every fifth day. this has nothing to do with my argument, really big moles just bug me.

So a start in which a pitcher holds the defending Champs to 0 hits through 8.1 innings and ends up getting the win going 8.2 innings/3runs doesn't impress you?

I bet you are one of those "fans" who boo's JD Drew.

haha i didnt say it wasnt impressive i was just stating that he gave up 2 home runs after that. which shows hes not exactly mentally stable. and i am one of my few friends who likes jd drew and how he plays and goes about his business. which is pretty much the opposite of lackey. mentally i would probably compare lackey to derek lowe when you could just see he was getting flustered and wasnt happy with whatever was going on. (different pitchers but same makeup upstairs it seems)

buconvict {l Wrote}:

ryfarls {l Wrote}:john lackey scares the shit outta me. hes a headcase. ill take him at 4 but i dont want him pitching any big games.

You didn't watch the playoffs this year did you.

Anyway, 5/85 seems like a lot. I'm going to wait and see on this one, if only because I believe this sets up other moves (both good and bad... Buchholz is now surplus to requirements and can be moved, but Beckett won't take a dime less than 5/85 now).

(Insert emoticon with chinese man brushing his pointy beard).

I'd offer Beckett 5 and 85 right now. He's a marginally better pitcher than Lackey.

Shredder {l Wrote}:

buconvict {l Wrote}:
I don't think there is any way the Red Sox trade Westmoreland. He's probably the one untouchable in their system.

I think for Adrian Gonzalez, Westmoreland is very tradeable. I don't think anyone is untouchable in that scenario, it'll just be the number of prospects.

I'm weary of five-year pitching contracts but you probably can't sign a top starter for less than five years nowadays with the Sabbathia, Burnett, Zito and other contracts. I don't think they'll extend Beckett because not only will be be a free agent after next season, Halladay (unless he extends with the Phillies) will also be a free agent. There are probably some other pitchers available then too.

Signing Lackey means two big things for me: Buchholz is now available in an Adrian Gonzalez trade and that signing a big bat will not be as high a priority. I'm with that. While Holliday and Bay are the best hitters available this offseason, I don't think either are truly elite. We've seen Bay down the stretch and in the postseason the past two years. As good as he's been, he's not worth what he wants. Harold Reynolds on MLB Network now is saying that the Sox aren't really out with Bay and he makes some good arguments based on how much money they had in the Teixeira hunt last year.

I really don't want to see them sign Beltre. He had that one big homerun year and has been average offensively since. Whatever defense he has can be found in other third basemen.

God Adrian Beltre is bad. Please No?