OT: Grandersson to the Yanks?

[auggiebc]

he won't bat .249 this year. leadoff or not, you can slot this guy in anywhere. bat him 2nd. bat him 5th. bat him last. doesn't matter.

Why won't he hit .249? His career has been regressing to a mean for the past 3 seasons.

he's in his prime. 28 yrs old in a band box surrounded by HOF hitters. If he bats .249 i'll be shocked.

as for melky, my guess is he'll be their 4th outfielder, just like he was to start last year's season. not real surprise there, regardless if they got Granderson or not.

[flyingelvii]

I expect his SLG to go up significantly. BA I really have no idea. It probably will go up is he is primarily platooned.

[EagleNYC]

Granderson will hit 35+ HR in Yankee Stadium next year. I know the Red Sox roll their eyes at meaningless stats like HR and RBI, but the fact remains that the Yankees leadoff hitter will hit 35 hr, a boat load of doubles, and score 120+ runs. He's pure gold as a leadoff hitter in this Yankee lineup. And he'll play good defense, steal some bases, and from what I hear from my Tigers fans, he's a very popular guy. Never in trouble, respects the game, and plays hard.

As a Red Sox fan, I'm not happy.

Have an OBP of .327... hit .249... strike out 150 times... basically be Preston Wilson. Pure gold for the Yankee lineup would be a guy who gets on base all the time so that Rodriguez and Leigh have people to drive in. He would be a terrible leadoff hitter.

Like I said, his numbers are acceptable from a CF, but unacceptable from a LF.

1. I'm certain that he'll play CF
2. You are pointing to last year only, while ignoring 2007 and 2008.
3. Even accepting 2009 as what can be expected of him, as I said earlier, look at the splits.

Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Home 79 77 346 309 42 71 11 4 10 34 7 2 35 66 .230 .307 .388 .696
Away 81 78 364 322 49 86 12 4 20 37 13 4 37 75 .267 .345 .516 .861

Now factor in that he is going from a ballpark that absolutely killed him to one that played like a bandbox for lefties all year.

You're certain? I had no idea that Brian Cashman/Joe Girardi was a member of EO. So Brian/Joe, do you plan on benching Cabrera? Or trading him?

You're right BUC, you NEVER state informed opinion as fact; my mistake.


Those splits are pretty similar except for HR and BA, which makes almost no sense when you favctor in the added free space for a batted ball to fall in for a hit at Comerica. HRs is obvious.

I don't know about you, but I think BA and HR are rather important.

[twballgame9]

Granderson will hit 35+ HR in Yankee Stadium next year. I know the Red Sox roll their eyes at meaningless stats like HR and RBI, but the fact remains that the Yankees leadoff hitter will hit 35 hr, a boat load of doubles, and score 120+ runs. He's pure gold as a leadoff hitter in this Yankee lineup. And he'll play good defense, steal some bases, and from what I hear from my Tigers fans, he's a very popular guy. Never in trouble, respects the game, and plays hard.

As a Red Sox fan, I'm not happy.

Have an OBP of .327... hit .249... strike out 150 times... basically be Preston Wilson. Pure gold for the Yankee lineup would be a guy who gets on base all the time so that Rodriguez and Leigh have people to drive in. He would be a terrible leadoff hitter.

Like I said, his numbers are acceptable from a CF, but unacceptable from a LF.

1. I'm certain that he'll play CF
2. You are pointing to last year only, while ignoring 2007 and 2008.
3. Even accepting 2009 as what can be expected of him, as I said earlier, look at the splits.

Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Home 79 77 346 309 42 71 11 4 10 34 7 2 35 66 .230 .307 .388 .696
Away 81 78 364 322 49 86 12 4 20 37 13 4 37 75 .267 .345 .516 .861

Now factor in that he is going from a ballpark that absolutely killed him to one that played like a bandbox for lefties all year.

You're certain? I had no idea that Brian Cashman/Joe Girardi was a member of EO. So Brian/Joe, do you plan on benching Cabrera? Or trading him?

You're right BUC, you NEVER state informed opinion as fact; my mistake.


Those splits are pretty similar except for HR and BA, which makes almost no sense when you favctor in the added free space for a batted ball to fall in for a hit at Comerica. HRs is obvious.

I don't know about you, but I think BA and HR are rather important.

Me too. He doesn't.

[auggiebc]

cashman, fresh off the granderson deal, is now scheduled to meet with Lackey's agent in Indy tomorrow, reports also indicate Yanks stil pursuing Halladay.

Not to be outdone, Theo picked up another Ramon Ramirez today. A Triple-A reliever out of the Reds organization that the Sox claimed on waivers today.

[JConman]

I know nothing about Austin Jackson... I just know that when Yankee talking heads would talk about they would bow in deference and speak in hushed voices.

Personally, I think the Yanks overhype every single one of their prospects. I can't recall them trading away one that they really lived to regret. I think you have to go back to Jay Buhner. After that you have guys like Brandon Phillips, Mike Lowell and Eric Milton. Ain't nothing to really get excited about. What I don't understand is how the media-types (Gammons) get suckered in every time by the Yanks' spin. I further don't understand why anyone would ever trade with the Yanks when prospects are involved. But, good for the Yanks. They're the smart ones abusing the system.

What I am perplexed by is Arizona doing this deal. They downgraded in the Edwin Jackson/Max Scherzer swap. Ian Kennedy (who is the WORST) is waiver fodder. I don't have a clue why they would do this deal.

I think Austin Jackson's stock has been going down because he still hasn't shown any power and because there are some questions as to whether he can play CF. As a corner OF, he's not worth much.

Yankee prospects are often overhyped. I don't think they ever had Phillips- I think he came up with the Indians. Nick Johnson isn't a bad player that they traded away.

Agree on Arizona- they've been pretty much universally panned for this deal.

[flyingelvii]

Arizona doesn't see Scherzer as a starter. He's already had Tommy John in HS and was a reliever for most of his career. Not sure if it has any merit but that's what they're going with.

Going upthread a bit, batting average isn't unimportant, it's just misleading, especially when phrased as a be all, end all stat about whether or not someone is productive at the plate. HRs are like that in a similar sense when discussing power because there are, even more so now, a multitude of factors coming into effect. They're okay stats, and a lot better than Wins or ERA are for a pitcher, but, again, need to be looked into further when discussing whether or not a player is a good hitter or if he has power.

Theo will make a move but he actually has a budget that he has to work within and he's stated that this is a transition year for the Sox as most of their top prospects (Kelly, Iglesias, Reddick, etc.) are about half a year to a full year away, at best. Next year they rid themselves of Lowell, Ortiz, Varitek, among others. That's when he'll make his move. The Granderson move is being severely overhyped IMO anyway. Yeah, it's a good move that will make the Yankees better but it's like the Nick Swisher trade last year. Granderson will essentially be an above average platoon player.

Re: Phillips, he came up with the Expos and was involved in that God-forsaken Bartolo Colon trade in which the Indians got Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Phillips, among others.

[ryfarls]

the d-backs apparently gave up daniel schlereth to the tigers too. im not exactly sure why arizona would do all this to get edwin jackson. scherzer is going to pitch like a number 2 in the tigers 3rd spot and schlereth was a recent high draft pick who could also crack the rotation next year if he doesnt this coming season.

[flyingelvii]

Schlereth's a reliever who's top-end projection is as a closer. He has no chance of cracking the rotation.

[EagleNYC]

Going upthread a bit, batting average isn't unimportant, it's just misleading, especially when phrased as a be all, end all stat about whether or not someone is productive at the plate. HRs are like that in a similar sense when discussing power because there are, even more so now, a multitude of factors coming into effect. They're okay stats, and a lot better than Wins or ERA are for a pitcher, but, again, need to be looked into further when discussing whether or not a player is a good hitter or if he has power.

Without turning this into a SABR thread, I don't think anyone even hinted that batting average is the end all be all of productivity. Batting average is an excellent general indication of how good a hitter is because it is based upon a large sample size. This figure can be carved up many different ways to provide a more insightful analysis (v. LHP, road/home, turf/grass, etc.). Regarding HR, their value cannot be overstated- HR, and even the threat of a HR, often direct the outcomes of games. This was precisely my point on Granderson, who's HR per AB has gone up the last 3 years (despite the dip in # in 2008, he missed a month and only hit one fewer HR than 2007)- he's an excellent power hitter on the road and will move from a terrible HR park to the best HR park for LHH.


Theo will make a move but he actually has a budget that he has to work within and he's stated that this is a transition year for the Sox as most of their top prospects (Kelly, Iglesias, Reddick, etc.) are about half a year to a full year away, at best. Next year they rid themselves of Lowell, Ortiz, Varitek, among others. That's when he'll make his move. The Granderson move is being severely overhyped IMO anyway. Yeah, it's a good move that will make the Yankees better but it's like the Nick Swisher trade last year. Granderson will essentially be an above average platoon player.

The NYY/Sox war is like the Cold War- the deck is stacked in NY's favor, just like the US, but the Sox are playing the same game. To cry "budget" is amusing because, provided that they don't keep either Matsui or Damon, this trade will save the Yankees approximately $7.5 million next year v. 2009 payroll (Granderson will get $5.5M, the other two were both at $13M). So they improve from Melky to Granderson, save $7.5M, and get substantially younger and faster. So if Theo had made this type of move someone could reasonably spin it as cost effective.

As for Swisher, he had 65 EXB (29 HR), an .870 OPS and played 150 games at $5.5M. Not bad for a platoon player.

Re: Phillips, he came up with the Expos and was involved in that God-forsaken Bartolo Colon trade in which the Indians got Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Phillips, among others.

[twballgame9]

I believe Brandon Phillips was an Expo prospect traded (with Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee) to the Indians for Bartolo Colon

My bad, didn't see that this had been addressed already

[branchinator]

While I agree with Convict that Granderson would be a bad top-of-the-order hitter for the Yankees, I liked this deal for the Yankees because they gave up very little. Last year, the Yankees' lineup was so tough because you had to great OBP guys (Jeter/Damon) batting in front of 2 monster bats in A-Rod/Teixeira (i.e., the 2003-2004 Red Sox model). You put a hacker like Granderson at the top of the order and that'll equate to less RBI opportunities for the middle of the order. However, in the bottom of the order, Granderson will be able to hack away, like Cano currently does in the 6th or 7th spot.

[Onyx Blackman]

Re: Phillips, he came up with the Expos and was involved in that God-forsaken Bartolo Colon trade in which the Indians got Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Phillips, among others.

[EagleNYC]

While I agree with Convict that Granderson would be a bad top-of-the-order hitter for the Yankees, I liked this deal for the Yankees because they gave up very little. Last year, the Yankees' lineup was so tough because you had to great OBP guys (Jeter/Damon) batting in front of 2 monster bats in A-Rod/Teixeira (i.e., the 2003-2004 Red Sox model). You put a hacker like Granderson at the top of the order and that'll equate to less RBI opportunities for the middle of the order. However, in the bottom of the order, Granderson will be able to hack away, like Cano currently does in the 6th or 7th spot.

Which is why I think they let Matsui walk and bring back Damon to bat 2nd.

[auggiebc]

the Yankees could draw straws each nigt to make out their batting order. Or they could pick names out of a hat. It would be a fun clubhouse activity for them.

A-Rod, Jeter, Cano, Granderson, Damon, Matsui, Posada,Texiera, Swisher...put them in any order and they'll be fine.

[BCEagle74]

20–20–20 seasons
Name Team Year 2B 3B HR
Frank Schulte Chicago Cubs 1911 30 21 21
Jim Bottomley St. Louis Cardinals 1928 42 20 31
Jeff Heath Cleveland Indians 1941 32 20 24
Willie Mays New York Giants 1957 26 20 35
George Brett Kansas City Royals 1979 42 20 23

Curtis Granderson Detroit Tigers 2007 38 23 23

Jimmy Rollins Philadelphia Phillies 2007 38 20 30

THIS IS A GREAT THREAD. I LOVE TALKING BASEBALL.

On the old Insiders, I posted a quiz on 20-20-20 guys since the Brett 1979 monster year.

Everything you say is true about Curtis's shortcomings, but his upsides:

1--Speed.
2--Great fielder; fair arm.
3--Power. hitting 30 HR's is not an easy feat in Detroit.
4--Durable and age 29 to start 2010.
5--Class clubhouse act and human being.
6--Will learn to strikout less and have better protection in Yankee lineup.
7--Will learn to hit lefties better with Yankees.
8--Never underestimate the 3 run homer and a .270 average. Earl Weaver.

I say Matsui is gone.

I still think that if the Yankees do not pursue Bay or Holliday or Ankiel or anyone, Damon will be back. ENYC was right!!

I would rather see Holliday in that slot, but the Yankees are sayin no $$$?

Those who say no to his career stats ---are not looking at what Boras and he teams he palyed for and where he batted.

I think Wang is a head case...I would package him with other for Halliday...or sign the best Cuban Cigar and/or Lackey or Pinero.

The 2H's or even Holliday and one FA pitcher and a Kooba Kidthe dynasty could be in place for 2 more Titles.

You have a lotta arms out there that cna be 2 3 4 starters and the Yankes have 1-2-3(Pettitte), so like I said last year if anyone remember when the Sox and Tex were soooooo close, Cashman would make a monumental mistake not to get Tex since the Yankees most needed a bat.

SIGN MATT HOLLIDAY AND TURN OUT THE LIGHTS.

You deducted 26M for Damon and Matusi --- added $6 plus a new contract for Granderson....Holliday would be perfect and a huge tactical and huge strategic blunder to dominate the AL.

Jeter
Damon??
Rod
Tex
Grand
Posada
Cano
Swis
Cabrera

[flyingelvii]

Going upthread a bit, batting average isn't unimportant, it's just misleading, especially when phrased as a be all, end all stat about whether or not someone is productive at the plate. HRs are like that in a similar sense when discussing power because there are, even more so now, a multitude of factors coming into effect. They're okay stats, and a lot better than Wins or ERA are for a pitcher, but, again, need to be looked into further when discussing whether or not a player is a good hitter or if he has power.

Without turning this into a SABR thread, I don't think anyone even hinted that batting average is the end all be all of productivity. Batting average is an excellent general indication of how good a hitter is because it is based upon a large sample size. This figure can be carved up many different ways to provide a more insightful analysis (v. LHP, road/home, turf/grass, etc.). Regarding HR, their value cannot be overstated- HR, and even the threat of a HR, often direct the outcomes of games. This was precisely my point on Granderson, who's HR per AB has gone up the last 3 years (despite the dip in # in 2008, he missed a month and only hit one fewer HR than 2007)- he's an excellent power hitter on the road and will move from a terrible HR park to the best HR park for LHH.


Theo will make a move but he actually has a budget that he has to work within and he's stated that this is a transition year for the Sox as most of their top prospects (Kelly, Iglesias, Reddick, etc.) are about half a year to a full year away, at best. Next year they rid themselves of Lowell, Ortiz, Varitek, among others. That's when he'll make his move. The Granderson move is being severely overhyped IMO anyway. Yeah, it's a good move that will make the Yankees better but it's like the Nick Swisher trade last year. Granderson will essentially be an above average platoon player.

The NYY/Sox war is like the Cold War- the deck is stacked in NY's favor, just like the US, but the Sox are playing the same game. To cry "budget" is amusing because, provided that they don't keep either Matsui or Damon, this trade will save the Yankees approximately $7.5 million next year v. 2009 payroll (Granderson will get $5.5M, the other two were both at $13M). So they improve from Melky to Granderson, save $7.5M, and get substantially younger and faster. So if Theo had made this type of move someone could reasonably spin it as cost effective.

As for Swisher, he had 65 EXB (29 HR), an .870 OPS and played 150 games at $5.5M. Not bad for a platoon player.

Re: Phillips, he came up with the Expos and was involved in that God-forsaken Bartolo Colon trade in which the Indians got Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Phillips, among others.

Your point about the payroll savings is greatly overstated and quite misleading. Granderson makes about $6 million/year. Damon would probably command about $6-8. Really it's savings of about $4 million or so. That $4 million also represents about 2% reduction of the Yankees' $200 million payroll. That is ridiculous and my point about Theo operating in a budget. The Red Sox didn't have the benefit of a subsidized stadium where they could reap the tax benefits on top of one of the world's largest market. Now some of the first half can be blamed on the Sox owners decision to renovate instead of rebuild. But in terms of budget, the Sox try to operate at the luxury tax threshold. This means Theo has to allocate his money effectively and efficiently. Brian Cashman doesn't do this, which is why I don't think he's a very good GM, just average. In building his WS team, he basically found a Brinks truck, identified the top 3 FAs on the market, and paid them their money. That was difficult. I will give him credit on Swisher though.

Didn't realize Swisher put up those numbers. Bad comparison by me. Still, Granderson is one of the worst ML in terms of hitting lefties. The New Toilet shouldn't change that too much.

Meh, I prefer OBP and SLG (individually more than together), LD% (tells you how hard a guy hits a ball), BABIP, and a slew of other SABR stats, all of which can be broken down by splits, and various park factors over AVG or HR. Not to say a guy who hits 30 HRs isn't impressive, but 30 HRs by a guy on the Marlins is a lot more impressive than 30 HRs by a guy who plays half of his games in the New Toilet.

[BCEagle74]

Rangers getting Lowell--strange deal for catcher Max Ramierez.....kid may be able to tatoo the Green Wall but need work on catching skills. Loweel did a great job for Sox.

WOW...Yankees now making big push for......Roy Halladay.

Wonder who is in the package???

Melky Cabrera, Wang? present pitchers on staff and prospects???

Sabathia, Burnett, Pettitte, Halliday, Pick 5, is a solid front line.

I still want Matt Holliday and maybe give a shot to a young prospect pitching other than Joba 3 innings and Hughes?

Imagine being the GM of the Pittsburgh Pirates.

You are at the Motel 6. You have KFC coupons.

Nobdy knows your name, but wants your prospects for garbage.

[BCEagle74]

The Yankees go nuts and go on a Holiday Spree, Roy and Matt, and then gove MLB a heart attack sign Pinero.



They will wrap up Pennants for 2-3 years with age of roster.

I'll take a one day Holiday....either one and then pick up pitcher or outfielder.

I see an increase in the luxury tax coming.

[buconvict]

Granderson will hit 35+ HR in Yankee Stadium next year. I know the Red Sox roll their eyes at meaningless stats like HR and RBI, but the fact remains that the Yankees leadoff hitter will hit 35 hr, a boat load of doubles, and score 120+ runs. He's pure gold as a leadoff hitter in this Yankee lineup. And he'll play good defense, steal some bases, and from what I hear from my Tigers fans, he's a very popular guy. Never in trouble, respects the game, and plays hard.

As a Red Sox fan, I'm not happy.

Have an OBP of .327... hit .249... strike out 150 times... basically be Preston Wilson. Pure gold for the Yankee lineup would be a guy who gets on base all the time so that Rodriguez and Leigh have people to drive in. He would be a terrible leadoff hitter.

Like I said, his numbers are acceptable from a CF, but unacceptable from a LF.

1. I'm certain that he'll play CF
2. You are pointing to last year only, while ignoring 2007 and 2008.
3. Even accepting 2009 as what can be expected of him, as I said earlier, look at the splits.

Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Home 79 77 346 309 42 71 11 4 10 34 7 2 35 66 .230 .307 .388 .696
Away 81 78 364 322 49 86 12 4 20 37 13 4 37 75 .267 .345 .516 .861

Now factor in that he is going from a ballpark that absolutely killed him to one that played like a bandbox for lefties all year.

You're certain? I had no idea that Brian Cashman/Joe Girardi was a member of EO. So Brian/Joe, do you plan on benching Cabrera? Or trading him?

You're right BUC, you NEVER state informed opinion as fact; my mistake.


Those splits are pretty similar except for HR and BA, which makes almost no sense when you favctor in the added free space for a batted ball to fall in for a hit at Comerica. HRs is obvious.

I don't know about you, but I think BA and HR are rather important.

Me too. He doesn't.

I think that BA is just one of many way to judge a players ability to produce runs. If a player hits .250 (like say, Adam Dunn) and walks a lot, that player is better than a player who hits .280 and never takes walks (like Granderson).

I like home runs fine, but again, I don't see much value in 30 HRs if 20 of them result in just one run scoring.

Someone made a good point before about hitting Granderson 6th or 7th. That's where he belongs. NOT hitting leadoff.

In any event, let me know how Granderson does in the 7th inning or later when every single team brings in a lefty to face him and he hits .189 in those situations.

[buconvict]

btw, FoxSports.com reporting that Lowell, his shitty attitude, shitty defense, and arthritic hip is gone.

[auggiebc]

btw, FoxSports.com reporting that Lowell, his shitty attitude, shitty defense, and arthritic hip is gone.

Sox paying dearly to get rid of him, but yeah it's a good move. hopefully this will open the floodgates for some big moves.

[buconvict]

The Boof Bonser era begins today

[BCEagle74]

I still think that if the Yankees do not pursue Bay or Holliday or Ankiel or anyone, Damon will be back. ENYC was right!!

I would rather see Holliday in that slot, but the Yankees are sayin no $$$?

Those who say no to his career stats ---are not looking at what Boras and he teams he palyed for and where he batted.

I think Wang is a head case...I would package him with other for Halliday...or sign the best Cuban Cigar and/or Lackey or Pinero.

Jeter --SS 1
Damon --LF 2
Rod --3B 4
Tex --1B 5
Grand --CF 3
Posada - C 7
Cano --2B 8
Swis --DH 6
Cabrera RF 9

I woule like to see the numbered lineup rather tahn the projected lineup. Who knows what Grandy could do in front of Rod and Tex?

That lineup and staff have career years, Yankees could win 115+.

Yanks to re-sign Damon.

They pull off a trade for Halliday, they will be tough to handle.

if not, maybe Pinero or who knows.

They may pick up a righty DH or use farm system.

[flyingelvii]

I found it. Joe Pos why the Yankees suck. Joe Pos is the best baseball writer in America. It is not close. Joe Pos is awesome.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/11/05/yankees.payroll/1.html

[BCEagle74]

Blah blah blah....go google the article on how many hundreds of billions in revenue sharing and luxury tax the Milwaukees, Pittsburghs and others just pocketed since the TV money is so huge and covered their expense and more.

I think, I can't remember, that Pittsburgh's share was $95M like all teams in the National Tv revenue split including the otehr sharing and their payroll was <$40M?

Where did the $55M go....owners pockets...and the city of Pitt gave them breask, improvemenst and conssessions!

Baseball should bow down and thank the Yankees for the YES Network and Communism.

27 Titles and hopefully the next 3 for 30.

The Redsox make a fortune off cable too, they love to whien when the Yankees win.

[buconvict]

I maintain that the smartest way to invest $500 million dollars would be to purchase the Pittsburgh Pirates, draft and sign good players (aka not blow 2.1 mil on Tony Sanchez so you can save 400K on a far better player)m and build the team into a contender in that awful division they call the NL Central.

Once upon a time the Pirates were one of the league premier products. People from Pittsburgh love sports, loved the Pirates when they were good, have a GORGEOUS stadium, and no teams to cheer for during the summer. They don't even need to be awesome, they just need to not suck.

Buy the team for 400, use 100 on an academy in the Dominican, poaching talent evaluators from successful FO's (like Texas, Boston, and Anaheim), and breaking the bank in the Draft (consistently go over-slot the way the Yankees, Red Sox, and Angels do).

Easy money. Same goes for the Reds. Miserable rust belt towns that love baseball but have no reason to financially support their team.

[BCEagle74]

I maintain that the smartest way to invest $500 million dollars would be to purchase the Pittsburgh Pirates, draft and sign good players (aka not blow 2.1 mil on Tony Sanchez so you can save 400K on a far better player)m and build the team into a contender in that awful division they call the NL Central.

Once upon a time the Pirates were one of the league premier products. People from Pittsburgh love sports, loved the Pirates when they were good, have a GORGEOUS stadium, and no teams to cheer for during the summer. They don't even need to be awesome, they just need to not suck.

Buy the team for 400, use 100 on an academy in the Dominican, poaching talent evaluators from successful FO's (like Texas, Boston, and Anaheim), and breaking the bank in the Draft (consistently go over-slot the way the Yankees, Red Sox, and Angels do).

Easy money. Same goes for the Reds. Miserable rust belt towns that love baseball but have no reason to financially support their team.

Great post BUC--Bucs can be had for $275M.

[EagleNYC]

Going upthread a bit, batting average isn't unimportant, it's just misleading, especially when phrased as a be all, end all stat about whether or not someone is productive at the plate. HRs are like that in a similar sense when discussing power because there are, even more so now, a multitude of factors coming into effect. They're okay stats, and a lot better than Wins or ERA are for a pitcher, but, again, need to be looked into further when discussing whether or not a player is a good hitter or if he has power.

Without turning this into a SABR thread, I don't think anyone even hinted that batting average is the end all be all of productivity. Batting average is an excellent general indication of how good a hitter is because it is based upon a large sample size. This figure can be carved up many different ways to provide a more insightful analysis (v. LHP, road/home, turf/grass, etc.). Regarding HR, their value cannot be overstated- HR, and even the threat of a HR, often direct the outcomes of games. This was precisely my point on Granderson, who's HR per AB has gone up the last 3 years (despite the dip in # in 2008, he missed a month and only hit one fewer HR than 2007)- he's an excellent power hitter on the road and will move from a terrible HR park to the best HR park for LHH.


Theo will make a move but he actually has a budget that he has to work within and he's stated that this is a transition year for the Sox as most of their top prospects (Kelly, Iglesias, Reddick, etc.) are about half a year to a full year away, at best. Next year they rid themselves of Lowell, Ortiz, Varitek, among others. That's when he'll make his move. The Granderson move is being severely overhyped IMO anyway. Yeah, it's a good move that will make the Yankees better but it's like the Nick Swisher trade last year. Granderson will essentially be an above average platoon player.

The NYY/Sox war is like the Cold War- the deck is stacked in NY's favor, just like the US, but the Sox are playing the same game. To cry "budget" is amusing because, provided that they don't keep either Matsui or Damon, this trade will save the Yankees approximately $7.5 million next year v. 2009 payroll (Granderson will get $5.5M, the other two were both at $13M). So they improve from Melky to Granderson, save $7.5M, and get substantially younger and faster. So if Theo had made this type of move someone could reasonably spin it as cost effective.

As for Swisher, he had 65 EXB (29 HR), an .870 OPS and played 150 games at $5.5M. Not bad for a platoon player.

Re: Phillips, he came up with the Expos and was involved in that God-forsaken Bartolo Colon trade in which the Indians got Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Phillips, among others.

Your point about the payroll savings is greatly overstated and quite misleading. Granderson makes about $6 million/year. Damon would probably command about $6-8. Really it's savings of about $4 million or so. That $4 million also represents about 2% reduction of the Yankees' $200 million payroll. That is ridiculous and my point about Theo operating in a budget. The Red Sox didn't have the benefit of a subsidized stadium where they could reap the tax benefits on top of one of the world's largest market. Now some of the first half can be blamed on the Sox owners decision to renovate instead of rebuild. But in terms of budget, the Sox try to operate at the luxury tax threshold. This means Theo has to allocate his money effectively and efficiently. Brian Cashman doesn't do this, which is why I don't think he's a very good GM, just average. In building his WS team, he basically found a Brinks truck, identified the top 3 FAs on the market, and paid them their money. That was difficult. I will give him credit on Swisher though.

You changed the figures to fit your agenda: i was comparing a 2009 OF roster spot (Matui and Damon were indeed $13M each) with a 2010 spot (Granderson at $5.5M). If Damon or Matsui resign at a lower figure isn't it an even better move? Granted, if they stupidly resign both there will be no salary benefit.

Also, why do the Yankees get grief for a new stadium? The Sox have Boston by the balls- if they really wanted a new stadium it would get done in a heartbeat. I don't know their revenue from NESN, but I'm sure it's substantial. If they could make more $ from their own network, go ahead and do it.

Didn't realize Swisher put up those numbers. Bad comparison by me. Still, Granderson is one of the worst ML in terms of hitting lefties. The New Toilet shouldn't change that too much.

This point is valid. He'll have to improve against LHP.

Meh, I prefer OBP and SLG (individually more than together), LD% (tells you how hard a guy hits a ball), BABIP, and a slew of other SABR stats, all of which can be broken down by splits, and various park factors over AVG or HR. Not to say a guy who hits 30 HRs isn't impressive, but 30 HRs by a guy on the Marlins is a lot more impressive than 30 HRs by a guy who plays half of his games in the New Toilet.

This was my original point about Granderson- with his splits he could hit 37-40 HR next year. Of course, time will tell.

[Endless Mike]

btw, FoxSports.com reporting that Lowell, his shitty attitude, shitty defense, and arthritic hip is gone.

What makes you think he has a shitty attitude? Just curious. Was it from him grumbling about the Sox going after Teixeira last winter? I don't know about him causing any real trouble.

I don't know too much about Ramirez, but it sounds like he has some power potential.

So my guess is right now the plan will look something like Youkilis at third, Victor at 1st, and Varitek and Ramirez at catcher? Maybe Ryan Sheely will spend some time at 1st if they get him, and Victor will switch between there and catcher?

EDIT: Is Kotchman still in the mix too? I haven't thought about baseball that must in a while.

SECOND EDIT: Has Lowell passed the physical yet? Just sayin.