Everything about Soccer Sucks

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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:49 am

PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:Torres wasn't as frustrating as he often is, but he was just OK. Diskerud had a nice game as well.

Regarding Shea, he's not there yet....what I'm saying is that IF he breaks into the starting lineup at Stoke this year and plays well, he's a force to be reckoned with. Shea is the living answer to all those "what if the top NFL/NBA athletes played soccer?" hypothetical questions, he has legit NFL WR size/speed.


No to the first comment.

Brek Shea blows. He's more like the living answer to "what if a tall fast uncoordinated guy played soccer?"

Can't possible imagine how one could watch US Soccer and think Torres is terrible and yet think Brek Shea is going to be some kind of contributor. I base this solely on US Team performances, as I don't follow minor league soccer, so I didn't see Shea much in the MLS.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby PhillyandBCEagles on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:49 am

I probably won't be watching the next 2 games, so feel free to tell me all about how Torres looked like the next Pele and Maradona rolled into one
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:51 am

PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:I probably won't be watching the next 2 games, so feel free to tell me all about how Torres looked like the next Pele and Maradona rolled into one


He will look like a back up wing for the USMNT, which is what he looked like the other night and he is going to be in Brazil. Brek Shea will look like a guy on the bench.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby Bryn Mawr Eagle on Thu Jul 11, 2013 12:50 pm

It is scary for me to admit that I know absolutely nothing about any of the people or players being discussed in this thread. Guess I should get up to speed before the tournament.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby HustlinOwl on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:09 pm

Bryn Mawr Eagle {l Wrote}:It is scary for me to admit that I know absolutely nothing about any of the people or players being discussed in this thread. Guess I should get up to speed before the tournament.


It only proves you're an American. Do not get up to speed, the Hall of Fame game is in about three weeks.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:39 pm

HustlinOwl {l Wrote}:
Bryn Mawr Eagle {l Wrote}:It is scary for me to admit that I know absolutely nothing about any of the people or players being discussed in this thread. Guess I should get up to speed before the tournament.


It only proves you're an American. Do not get up to speed, the Hall of Fame game is in about three weeks.


My entire knowledge of these soccer players comes from watching the American National Team. No matter how shitty a sport is, if you can't root for the Americans in it, you suck.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby 2001Eagle on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:51 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:I probably won't be watching the next 2 games, so feel free to tell me all about how Torres looked like the next Pele and Maradona rolled into one


He will look like a back up wing for the USMNT, which is what he looked like the other night and he is going to be in Brazil. Brek Shea will look like a guy on the bench.


Torres isn't a wing player.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:52 pm

2001Eagle {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:I probably won't be watching the next 2 games, so feel free to tell me all about how Torres looked like the next Pele and Maradona rolled into one


He will look like a back up wing for the USMNT, which is what he looked like the other night and he is going to be in Brazil. Brek Shea will look like a guy on the bench.


Torres isn't a wing player.


Define wing, because I played baseball. He was on the left side if the midfield 4 the other night.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby 2001Eagle on Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:00 pm

He's been a central midfielder forever and against Belize was the first time I can remember him playing on the left side of the midfield. He played CM against Guatemala just last week, as he predominantly plays in the center of the field. JK might be giving him run there because we have a logjam in the middle of the field. See below write up from the Guatemala game:

After being largely exiled from the team for the past year, Jose Torres finally worked his way back into the squad on Friday night. However, he promptly failed to impress in his 45 minutes in the middle after being given the start.

With Michael Bradley, Jermaine Jones and Geoff Cameron virtual shoe-ins for the roster and Maurice Edu, Danny Williams, Kyle Beckerman, Sacha Kljestan, Stuart Holden and Mix Diskerud fighting for the remaining center midfield spot(s), Torres is increasingly likely to be one of the odd men out.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:11 pm

2001Eagle {l Wrote}:He's been a central midfielder forever and against Belize was the first time I can remember him playing on the left side of the midfield. He played CM against Guatemala just last week, as he predominantly plays in the center of the field. JK might be giving him run there because we have a logjam in the middle of the field. See below write up from the Guatemala game:

After being largely exiled from the team for the past year, Jose Torres finally worked his way back into the squad on Friday night. However, he promptly failed to impress in his 45 minutes in the middle after being given the start.

With Michael Bradley, Jermaine Jones and Geoff Cameron virtual shoe-ins for the roster and Maurice Edu, Danny Williams, Kyle Beckerman, Sacha Kljestan, Stuart Holden and Mix Diskerud fighting for the remaining center midfield spot(s), Torres is increasingly likely to be one of the odd men out.


I've only seen him play under Klinsmann because I only watch soccer when its the US team, and Bradley seemed to hate the guy. When Klinsmann first took over and before Torres was off the team for a while, I seem to recall him playing a lot of LW. I just looked it up - and article on ESPN from last August says that Klinsmann had tried Torres everywhere except for the position he plays for his club - "You have to give Klinsmann credit for not giving up. He's recently tried Torres in just about every role imaginable, save for the one he actually fills for his club, that being in the center of midfield." I had no idea what he played in Mexico.

Given the comments on the Guatemala game, and the way he played against Belize, maybe he's better suited for the wing.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby 2001Eagle on Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:28 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
2001Eagle {l Wrote}:He's been a central midfielder forever and against Belize was the first time I can remember him playing on the left side of the midfield. He played CM against Guatemala just last week, as he predominantly plays in the center of the field. JK might be giving him run there because we have a logjam in the middle of the field. See below write up from the Guatemala game:

After being largely exiled from the team for the past year, Jose Torres finally worked his way back into the squad on Friday night. However, he promptly failed to impress in his 45 minutes in the middle after being given the start.

With Michael Bradley, Jermaine Jones and Geoff Cameron virtual shoe-ins for the roster and Maurice Edu, Danny Williams, Kyle Beckerman, Sacha Kljestan, Stuart Holden and Mix Diskerud fighting for the remaining center midfield spot(s), Torres is increasingly likely to be one of the odd men out.


I've only seen him play under Klinsmann because I only watch soccer when its the US team, and Bradley seemed to hate the guy. When Klinsmann first took over and before Torres was off the team for a while, I seem to recall him playing a lot of LW. I just looked it up - and article on ESPN from last August says that Klinsmann had tried Torres everywhere except for the position he plays for his club - "You have to give Klinsmann credit for not giving up. He's recently tried Torres in just about every role imaginable, save for the one he actually fills for his club, that being in the center of midfield." I had no idea what he played in Mexico.

Given the comments on the Guatemala game, and the way he played against Belize, maybe he's better suited for the wing.


From this July 5th Jeff Carlisle blog post (for ESPN and one of perhaps 3 US writers I like on soccer) it appears that JK has been experimenting with Torres on the wing:

Torres would gladly accept that scenario. The Tigres midfielder has slid down the midfield depth chart during Klinsmann's tenure, and he found himself on the outside of the roster that contested the World Cup qualifiers.

"It's tough, because everyone wants to be there and play every game, but sometimes that's part of soccer," he said. "It was my turn to watch the games."

The positional conundrum surrounding Torres has been even tougher than that of Holden. The Longview, Tex., native has long seemed to be a player for the middle third of the field, and spent much of the last club season with Mexican side Tigres playing in a holding role alongside Carlos Salcido, although there were moments where manager Tuca Ferretti urged him to push forward more.

Yet there are questions as to whether Torres possesses the defensive presence to play there at international level. The problem has been compounded in that when Torres was moved into wider positions, his performances have been uneven. Playing alongside a tough tackling presence such as Beckerman might alleviate some of those concerns and allow him to push forward into the attack a bit more. That's a facet of his game that Torres insists he'll reveal more of with Tigres this season now that he has his first campaign with the club under his belt. If he can do that with the U.S., it could very well be his ticket into getting back into the full squad.

Torres says his preference is to play in the attacking third, something he'll do more of this season at Mexican club Tigres. "Jurgen, he knows that in the midfield, that's where I like to be," he said. "I like to be on the ball, I like to go forward, I like to attack. But wherever he tries to play me, I'll just try to do my best."


I personally think he is too small, slow and weak defensively to be good enough to play at the highest level, such as in the World Cup Finals. That said, I will give you that he looked solid against Belize.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:33 pm

I'll agree that if his role is heavy on defense, then he shouldn't be on the team. But after all those years of watching Bradley led teams lose 1-0, I will take a guy that is offensive minded and can increase goal scoring chances, especially if he isn't starting. Also, if it means Beckerman has to play in order to cover for him, cut him. Hell no to that.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby HustlinOwl on Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:39 pm

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
HustlinOwl {l Wrote}:
Bryn Mawr Eagle {l Wrote}:It is scary for me to admit that I know absolutely nothing about any of the people or players being discussed in this thread. Guess I should get up to speed before the tournament.


It only proves you're an American. Do not get up to speed, the Hall of Fame game is in about three weeks.


My entire knowledge of these soccer players comes from watching the American National Team. No matter how shitty a sport is, if you can't root for the Americans in it, you suck.


Name one person on our synchronized swimming team or table tennis team.

(You're a terrible American)
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby twballgame9 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:51 pm

HustlinOwl {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
HustlinOwl {l Wrote}:
Bryn Mawr Eagle {l Wrote}:It is scary for me to admit that I know absolutely nothing about any of the people or players being discussed in this thread. Guess I should get up to speed before the tournament.


It only proves you're an American. Do not get up to speed, the Hall of Fame game is in about three weeks.


My entire knowledge of these soccer players comes from watching the American National Team. No matter how shitty a sport is, if you can't root for the Americans in it, you suck.


Name one person on our synchronized swimming team or table tennis team.

(You're a terrible American)


No idea. But if the Olympics are on and an American is in it, I will watch.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby PhillyandBCEagles on Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:02 am

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
2001Eagle {l Wrote}:He's been a central midfielder forever and against Belize was the first time I can remember him playing on the left side of the midfield. He played CM against Guatemala just last week, as he predominantly plays in the center of the field. JK might be giving him run there because we have a logjam in the middle of the field. See below write up from the Guatemala game:

After being largely exiled from the team for the past year, Jose Torres finally worked his way back into the squad on Friday night. However, he promptly failed to impress in his 45 minutes in the middle after being given the start.

With Michael Bradley, Jermaine Jones and Geoff Cameron virtual shoe-ins for the roster and Maurice Edu, Danny Williams, Kyle Beckerman, Sacha Kljestan, Stuart Holden and Mix Diskerud fighting for the remaining center midfield spot(s), Torres is increasingly likely to be one of the odd men out.


I've only seen him play under Klinsmann because I only watch soccer when its the US team, and Bradley seemed to hate the guy. When Klinsmann first took over and before Torres was off the team for a while, I seem to recall him playing a lot of LW. I just looked it up - and article on ESPN from last August says that Klinsmann had tried Torres everywhere except for the position he plays for his club - "You have to give Klinsmann credit for not giving up. He's recently tried Torres in just about every role imaginable, save for the one he actually fills for his club, that being in the center of midfield." I had no idea what he played in Mexico.

Given the comments on the Guatemala game, and the way he played against Belize, maybe he's better suited for the wing.


Bradley brought Torres to the World Cup and started him against Slovenia. Not sure how you can say he hated him.

Torres is a classic 80s/90s era #10. Very good with the ball at his feet but offers zero either defensively or off the ball, in large part due to his small size and limited athleticism. Put him on the 1994 or 1998 World Cup team or even in Claudio Reyna's position at the top of the midfield diamond in Bruce Arena's system and he might've done great things, but the game has changed and that type of player is for the most part obsolete in 2013. Players that one-dimensional aren't effective at the top levels of the modern game unless they're absolutely world-class at what they do, and Torres isn't. You also need to pair a player like that with a dedicated defensive midfielder who does nothing but stay back and shield the back 4--and Michael Bradley is WAY too good to waste in that role. That said, they can be effective in lesser domestic leagues or in international ball against minnows, and Torres often is. The style of play in the MFL in particular suits him, and internationally speaking he can be useful for breaking down bottom-barrel CONCACAF teams that do nothing but park 11 guys behind the ball at all times. But if we take him to Brazil he will be an ENORMOUS liability.....just as he was in South Africa, where he started one game and had to be subbed out at halftime because he was getting steamrolled.

He's less of a liability on the wing in both Bradley and Klinsmann's systems than he is centrally. But still, a liability.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby eagle216 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:31 am

PhillyandBCEagles {l Wrote}:
twballgame9 {l Wrote}:
2001Eagle {l Wrote}:He's been a central midfielder forever and against Belize was the first time I can remember him playing on the left side of the midfield. He played CM against Guatemala just last week, as he predominantly plays in the center of the field. JK might be giving him run there because we have a logjam in the middle of the field. See below write up from the Guatemala game:

After being largely exiled from the team for the past year, Jose Torres finally worked his way back into the squad on Friday night. However, he promptly failed to impress in his 45 minutes in the middle after being given the start.

With Michael Bradley, Jermaine Jones and Geoff Cameron virtual shoe-ins for the roster and Maurice Edu, Danny Williams, Kyle Beckerman, Sacha Kljestan, Stuart Holden and Mix Diskerud fighting for the remaining center midfield spot(s), Torres is increasingly likely to be one of the odd men out.


I've only seen him play under Klinsmann because I only watch soccer when its the US team, and Bradley seemed to hate the guy. When Klinsmann first took over and before Torres was off the team for a while, I seem to recall him playing a lot of LW. I just looked it up - and article on ESPN from last August says that Klinsmann had tried Torres everywhere except for the position he plays for his club - "You have to give Klinsmann credit for not giving up. He's recently tried Torres in just about every role imaginable, save for the one he actually fills for his club, that being in the center of midfield." I had no idea what he played in Mexico.

Given the comments on the Guatemala game, and the way he played against Belize, maybe he's better suited for the wing.


Bradley brought Torres to the World Cup and started him against Slovenia. Not sure how you can say he hated him.

Torres is a classic 80s/90s era #10. Very good with the ball at his feet but offers zero either defensively or off the ball, in large part due to his small size and limited athleticism. Put him on the 1994 or 1998 World Cup team or even in Claudio Reyna's position at the top of the midfield diamond in Bruce Arena's system and he might've done great things, but the game has changed and that type of player is for the most part obsolete in 2013. Players that one-dimensional aren't effective at the top levels of the modern game unless they're absolutely world-class at what they do, and Torres isn't. You also need to pair a player like that with a dedicated defensive midfielder who does nothing but stay back and shield the back 4--and Michael Bradley is WAY too good to waste in that role. That said, they can be effective in lesser domestic leagues or in international ball against minnows, and Torres often is. The style of play in the MFL in particular suits him, and internationally speaking he can be useful for breaking down bottom-barrel CONCACAF teams that do nothing but park 11 guys behind the ball at all times. But if we take him to Brazil he will be an ENORMOUS liability.....just as he was in South Africa, where he started one game and had to be subbed out at halftime because he was getting steamrolled.

He's less of a liability on the wing in both Bradley and Klinsmann's systems than he is centrally. But still, a liability.


Exactly. Which is yet another reason why his good showing vs. Belize is meaningless from an evaluative standpoint.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby MF73-Eleazar on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:01 am

Torres is ineffective if you use him like this, as evidenced by the Slovenia match, constantly run over:

-----------Altidore---------------Findley----------
-Donovan-------------------------------Dempsey-
----------------Bradley---Torres-------------------

If he was to be used in this fashion, I think he would be successful:

-------------------Altidore-----------------------
-Donovan-----------------------------Dempsey-
--------------------Torres------------------------
-----------Bradley---------Jones----------------

At least he'd have two guys covering him and covering the defense. It would mean that Zusi and his crossing ability would be relegated to the bench. Klinsmann is tied to the 4-4-2 for the moment. 4-3-3 is a formation teams are using, but Jozy doesn't seem to be as successful when utilized as a lone striker.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby 2001Eagle on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:15 am

MF73-Eleazar {l Wrote}:Torres is ineffective if you use him like this, as evidenced by the Slovenia match, constantly run over:

-----------Altidore---------------Findley----------
-Donovan-------------------------------Dempsey-
----------------Bradley---Torres-------------------

If he was to be used in this fashion, I think he would be successful:

-------------------Altidore-----------------------
-Donovan-----------------------------Dempsey-
--------------------Torres------------------------
-----------Bradley---------Jones----------------

At least he'd have two guys covering him and covering the defense. It would mean that Zusi and his crossing ability would be relegated to the bench. Klinsmann is tied to the 4-4-2 for the moment. 4-3-3 is a formation teams are using, but Jozy doesn't seem to be as successful when utilized as a lone striker.


I think my memory had glossed over just how fucking bad the first half against Slovenia was.

FWIW, Dempsey virtually never plays right wing anymore.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby PhillyandBCEagles on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:39 am

MF73-Eleazar {l Wrote}:Torres is ineffective if you use him like this, as evidenced by the Slovenia match, constantly run over:

-----------Altidore---------------Findley----------
-Donovan-------------------------------Dempsey-
----------------Bradley---Torres-------------------

If he was to be used in this fashion, I think he would be successful:

-------------------Altidore-----------------------
-Donovan-----------------------------Dempsey-
--------------------Torres------------------------
-----------Bradley---------Jones----------------

At least he'd have two guys covering him and covering the defense. It would mean that Zusi and his crossing ability would be relegated to the bench. Klinsmann is tied to the 4-4-2 for the moment. 4-3-3 is a formation teams are using, but Jozy doesn't seem to be as successful when utilized as a lone striker.


Maybe.....but if you go with that second setup Holden would be a far superior choice to Torres in that spot and while he hasn't yet gotten the chance to prove it against WC-level competition (other than the Russia friendly last year) my bet is Diskerud would be as well. Plus I think you're marginalizing Dempsey there and as you mentioned Jozy has always played best for the US in a 4-4-2 (although doesn't AZ run a 4-3-3?). I also strongly prefer Cameron to Jones, although Jurgen probably doesn't agree with me yet (I'd still like to see us experiment with Jones and/or Edu at RB).

Torres is just too one-dimensional....you can get away with being one-dimensional if you're literally one of the best in the world at that one dimension, but unfortunately he isn't.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby 2001Eagle on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:43 am

This is what I would like to be the lineup:

-------------------Altidore-----------------------
-------------------Dempsey----------------------
Donovan---------Bradley-------------------Zusi
----------------Cameron/Jones-----------------

Johnson--------------------------------Chandler
------------Gonzalez--------Besler--------------
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby eagle216 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:59 am

2001Eagle {l Wrote}:This is what I would like to be the lineup:

-------------------Altidore-----------------------
-------------------Dempsey----------------------
Donovan---------Bradley-------------------Zusi
----------------Cameron/Jones-----------------

Johnson--------------------------------Chandler
------------Gonzalez--------Besler--------------


That is very close to the line up I would like to see. I would like to see Holden in there though. He is better than Cameron/Jones/Zusi, but obviously will need to be healthy and in top form. The CBs scare me though, and JK may feel the need to protect them with a deep lying DM.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby MF73-Eleazar on Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:31 pm

2001Eagle {l Wrote}:This is what I would like to be the lineup:

-------------------Altidore-----------------------
-------------------Dempsey----------------------
Donovan---------Bradley-------------------Zusi
----------------Cameron/Jones-----------------

Johnson--------------------------------Chandler
------------Gonzalez--------Besler--------------


Sure.

I wonder where Dempsey will end up since he was transfer-listed by T*tt*nh*m, doubt he leaves England, though there are plenty of good teams that need a striker/scorer. Join Jozy in Sunderland?
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby twballgame9 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:51 pm

I like that lineup. No one ever suggested Torres should start.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby HustlinOwl on Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:57 pm

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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby MF73-Eleazar on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:38 pm

Alleged lineup for today. Wondo, Beasely, Goodson and Mix to the bench.

------Donovan------------------Gomez---------
-Shea--------------Holden-------------Corona-
-------------Dirty Fucking Hippie--------------
-Castillo-----Orozco-----Gooch-------Beltran-
-------------------Rimando---------------------
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby MF73-Eleazar on Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:34 pm

Shea has had a terrible first half at LM, Castillo is showing that at LB he's garbage, but at LM, he's average. I hope Klinsmann makes a few changes at the half, subbing in Beasley at LB, and either Torres/Bedoya at LM.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby HustlinOwl on Sat Jul 13, 2013 7:01 pm

Shea was benched today against the Cubans and was completely ineffective on the left wing. At this point I'd be surprised if he was in Brazil.

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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby PhillyandBCEagles on Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:01 am

Shea apparently was awful. Doesn't really change what I said, that IF he can get things going at Stoke this year he's going to force himself into the starting 11. There isn't a player with 20+ caps for the US team that doesn't have at least one stinker among them.
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby MF73-Eleazar on Sun Jul 14, 2013 2:17 pm

My lineup prediction for Tuesday:

-------Gomez---------------WondoWlowski------
-Donovan----------Torres----------------Corona-
---------------Wannabe Rasta--------------------
-Beasley-------Orozco----Gooch-----Parkhurst-
--------------------Rimando----------------------
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Re: Everything about Soccer Sucks

Postby twballgame9 on Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:47 am

Shea is a terrible player with no discernible skill.

Torres was mediocre against Cuba. He does have the benefit of being left footed and a decent set piece option, particularly on corners from the left side.

Corona can play a little. He had a great game.
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