EagleOutsider.com

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:The Mad Dog signed with the Reds on a one-year deal worth $8.5 million.

phillies get # 14 pick in the draft, highest they would draft since 2002 or 2003. They will probably trade it.

You can't trade picks in baseball.

hmm. then they will draft someone and immediately trade him. I didn't know that.

I think you have to wait like a year or a certain time period before you can trade someone. Part of the reason they use PTBNL in trades.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

eagle9903 {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:The Mad Dog signed with the Reds on a one-year deal worth $8.5 million.

phillies get # 14 pick in the draft, highest they would draft since 2002 or 2003. They will probably trade it.

You can't trade picks in baseball.

hmm. then they will draft someone and immediately trade him. I didn't know that.

I think you have to wait like a year or a certain time period before you can trade someone. Part of the reason they use PTBNL in trades.

Goddamit. Then they will draft someone who will turn out to be the PTBNL in a trade before or after the draft. I am learning how much I don't know about the CBA(if this is under the CBA, otherwise I am learning about how much I don't know about something else)

I assume it's in the CBA but it's been this way probably since the amateur draft was instituted.

Yankees trade Montero for Pineda. Wow.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/conversations/_/id/7460297/new-york-yankees-deal-jesus-montero-seattle-mariners-michael-pineda-source-says

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Yankees trade Montero for Pineda. Wow.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/conversations/_/id/7460297/new-york-yankees-deal-jesus-montero-seattle-mariners-michael-pineda-source-says

That's a good deal and helps both teams. Too much is being made of the Kuroda signing. Kuroda is a sub-.500 career pitcher (albeit for a down team) going from a pitcher's park in the NL to AL hitters and the New Yankee Stadium. He'll be ok as a back of the rotation guy for the Yankees but if it took $10M to sign him, the Sox were better off not spending it.

Shredder {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Yankees trade Montero for Pineda. Wow.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/conversations/_/id/7460297/new-york-yankees-deal-jesus-montero-seattle-mariners-michael-pineda-source-says

That's a good deal and helps both teams. Too much is being made of the Kuroda signing. Kuroda is a sub-.500 career pitcher (albeit for a down team) going from a pitcher's park in the NL to AL hitters and the New Yankee Stadium. He'll be ok as a back of the rotation guy for the Yankees but if it took $10M to sign him, the Sox were better off not spending it.

Kuroda has enough arm to be a 3 in AL East, and is certainly an upgrade on Nova. I view this deal as aimed to accomplish something much better: push AJ out or Hughes into the pen, while letting Nova be the 4 instead of the 3.

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

Shredder {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Yankees trade Montero for Pineda. Wow.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/conversations/_/id/7460297/new-york-yankees-deal-jesus-montero-seattle-mariners-michael-pineda-source-says

That's a good deal and helps both teams. Too much is being made of the Kuroda signing. Kuroda is a sub-.500 career pitcher (albeit for a down team) going from a pitcher's park in the NL to AL hitters and the New Yankee Stadium. He'll be ok as a back of the rotation guy for the Yankees but if it took $10M to sign him, the Sox were better off not spending it.

Kuroda has enough arm to be a 3 in AL East, and is certainly an upgrade on Nova. I view this deal as aimed to accomplish something much better: push AJ out or Hughes into the pen, while letting Nova be the 4 instead of the 3.

Exactly, Sabathia, Pineda, Kuroda, Nova and Hughes doesnt look too shabby. Imagine Kuroda and Pineda with an extra few runs a game to work with too.

DuchesneEast {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

Shredder {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Yankees trade Montero for Pineda. Wow.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/conversations/_/id/7460297/new-york-yankees-deal-jesus-montero-seattle-mariners-michael-pineda-source-says

That's a good deal and helps both teams. Too much is being made of the Kuroda signing. Kuroda is a sub-.500 career pitcher (albeit for a down team) going from a pitcher's park in the NL to AL hitters and the New Yankee Stadium. He'll be ok as a back of the rotation guy for the Yankees but if it took $10M to sign him, the Sox were better off not spending it.

Kuroda has enough arm to be a 3 in AL East, and is certainly an upgrade on Nova. I view this deal as aimed to accomplish something much better: push AJ out or Hughes into the pen, while letting Nova be the 4 instead of the 3.

Exactly, Sabathia, Pineda, Kuroda, Nova and Hughes doesnt look too shabby. Imagine Kuroda and Pineda with an extra few runs a game to work with too.

Also, Kuroda's home/road splits are nearly identical, other than his ERA, which is actually .4 lower on the road. I'm sure his ERA will baloon, but I'd take 4.25 from a #3 with the way the Yankees score runs.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=kurodhi01&year=&t=p#hmvis

Shocked when this went down, you don't trade a 22 year old starter who has already had success in this league, is a horse and throws 96+ for a DH. Really worked for the Yanks cause their DH role is going to be occupied for the next 6 years by ARod, Tex, Jeter, etc and they have a shitton of C prospects (those who actually project to be C in the MLB).

Great deal for the Yanks.

The only justification I can think of is that the M's didn't think Pineda's arm was going to hold up in the long-term or they thought he was more a product of Safeco. He does have a decent difference between home/road but his road numbers are still extremely solid. I guess the only thing I have comforting me is that he didn't do as well in the second-half as the first, so, um, yeah. Let's hope that continues, I guess.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:The only justification I can think of is that the M's didn't think Pineda's arm was going to hold up in the long-term or they thought he was more a product of Safeco. He does have a decent difference between home/road but his road numbers are still extremely solid. I guess the only thing I have comforting me is that he didn't do as well in the second-half as the first, so, um, yeah. Let's hope that continues, I guess.

The issue I have with that thought is this guy isn't Pedro Martinez, he's 6-7 260

claver2010 {l Wrote}:Shocked when this went down, you don't trade a 22 year old starter who has already had success in this league, is a horse and throws 96+ for a DH. Really worked for the Yanks cause their DH role is going to be occupied for the next 6 years by ARod, Tex, Jeter, etc and they have a shitton of C prospects (those who actually project to be C in the MLB).

Great deal for the Yanks.

And the Red Sox countered with Aaron Cook and Vicente Padilla.

claver2010 {l Wrote}:Shocked when this went down, you don't trade a 22 year old starter who has already had success in this league, is a horse and throws 96+ for a DH. Really worked for the Yanks cause their DH role is going to be occupied for the next 6 years by ARod, Tex, Jeter, etc and they have a shitton of C prospects (those who actually project to be C in the MLB).

Great deal for the Yanks.

You do for an elite hitter. The M's offense has been abysmal and their economics prevent them from signing a big FA bat. They might see Montero as someone that can see some time at catcher even if he doesn't play there every day. A lot of writers and baseball people really think that Montero is going to be a great hitter. The Yankees were fortunate or perhaps unfortunate in that they don't have a place for him and were able to make this deal.

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

Shredder {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Yankees trade Montero for Pineda. Wow.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/conversations/_/id/7460297/new-york-yankees-deal-jesus-montero-seattle-mariners-michael-pineda-source-says

That's a good deal and helps both teams. Too much is being made of the Kuroda signing. Kuroda is a sub-.500 career pitcher (albeit for a down team) going from a pitcher's park in the NL to AL hitters and the New Yankee Stadium. He'll be ok as a back of the rotation guy for the Yankees but if it took $10M to sign him, the Sox were better off not spending it.

Kuroda has enough arm to be a 3 in AL East, and is certainly an upgrade on Nova. I view this deal as aimed to accomplish something much better: push AJ out or Hughes into the pen, while letting Nova be the 4 instead of the 3.

Ivan Nova is the second best pitcher on that staff and it isn't even close. Don't get why Yankee fans don't realize how good he is. Kuroda is a 5/long reliever.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

Shredder {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Yankees trade Montero for Pineda. Wow.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/conversations/_/id/7460297/new-york-yankees-deal-jesus-montero-seattle-mariners-michael-pineda-source-says

That's a good deal and helps both teams. Too much is being made of the Kuroda signing. Kuroda is a sub-.500 career pitcher (albeit for a down team) going from a pitcher's park in the NL to AL hitters and the New Yankee Stadium. He'll be ok as a back of the rotation guy for the Yankees but if it took $10M to sign him, the Sox were better off not spending it.

Kuroda has enough arm to be a 3 in AL East, and is certainly an upgrade on Nova. I view this deal as aimed to accomplish something much better: push AJ out or Hughes into the pen, while letting Nova be the 4 instead of the 3.

Ivan Nova is the second best pitcher on that staff and it isn't even close. Don't get why Yankee fans don't realize how good he is. Kuroda is a 5/long reliever.

Pineda and Nova had extremely similar stats last year, with two notable exceptions: w/l and strikeouts. Because of his strikeouts, Pineda has a much higher ceiling than Nova, so I disagree that "it isn't even close." His WHIP was also lower by .2 or so. You could certainly make the case, but even though I hold him in very high esteem, I don't think Nova strikes out enough guys to be a #2. I certainly think that he'll be better than Kuroda in 2-3 years (perhaps even next year), but I'd rather Nova not have the perceived pressure, since he thrived last year when he was the nominal 4/5.

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

Shredder {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Yankees trade Montero for Pineda. Wow.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/conversations/_/id/7460297/new-york-yankees-deal-jesus-montero-seattle-mariners-michael-pineda-source-says

That's a good deal and helps both teams. Too much is being made of the Kuroda signing. Kuroda is a sub-.500 career pitcher (albeit for a down team) going from a pitcher's park in the NL to AL hitters and the New Yankee Stadium. He'll be ok as a back of the rotation guy for the Yankees but if it took $10M to sign him, the Sox were better off not spending it.

Kuroda has enough arm to be a 3 in AL East, and is certainly an upgrade on Nova. I view this deal as aimed to accomplish something much better: push AJ out or Hughes into the pen, while letting Nova be the 4 instead of the 3.

Ivan Nova is the second best pitcher on that staff and it isn't even close. Don't get why Yankee fans don't realize how good he is. Kuroda is a 5/long reliever.

Pineda and Nova had extremely similar stats last year, with two notable exceptions: w/l and strikeouts. Because of his strikeouts, Pineda has a much higher ceiling than Nova, so I disagree that "it isn't even close." His WHIP was also lower by .2 or so. You could certainly make the case, but even though I hold him in very high esteem, I don't think Nova strikes out enough guys to be a #2. I certainly think that he'll be better than Kuroda in 2-3 years (perhaps even next year), but I'd rather Nova not have the perceived pressure, since he thrived last year when he was the nominal 4/5.

Pineda = Safeco Field

Nova = A Little League size ballpark where Curtis Friggin Granderson can hit 40 HRs

Strikeouts for a pitcher are overrated. Guys that pitch to contact with great stuff are usually the best pitchers, with notable exceptions. Strikeout pitchers are often wild and usually throw too many pitches. You can have Nolan Ryan frankly, give me Greg Maddux or Roy Halliday.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

Shredder {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Yankees trade Montero for Pineda. Wow.

http://espn.go.com/newyork/conversations/_/id/7460297/new-york-yankees-deal-jesus-montero-seattle-mariners-michael-pineda-source-says

That's a good deal and helps both teams. Too much is being made of the Kuroda signing. Kuroda is a sub-.500 career pitcher (albeit for a down team) going from a pitcher's park in the NL to AL hitters and the New Yankee Stadium. He'll be ok as a back of the rotation guy for the Yankees but if it took $10M to sign him, the Sox were better off not spending it.

Kuroda has enough arm to be a 3 in AL East, and is certainly an upgrade on Nova. I view this deal as aimed to accomplish something much better: push AJ out or Hughes into the pen, while letting Nova be the 4 instead of the 3.

Ivan Nova is the second best pitcher on that staff and it isn't even close. Don't get why Yankee fans don't realize how good he is. Kuroda is a 5/long reliever.

Pineda and Nova had extremely similar stats last year, with two notable exceptions: w/l and strikeouts. Because of his strikeouts, Pineda has a much higher ceiling than Nova, so I disagree that "it isn't even close." His WHIP was also lower by .2 or so. You could certainly make the case, but even though I hold him in very high esteem, I don't think Nova strikes out enough guys to be a #2. I certainly think that he'll be better than Kuroda in 2-3 years (perhaps even next year), but I'd rather Nova not have the perceived pressure, since he thrived last year when he was the nominal 4/5.

Pineda = Safeco Field

Nova = A Little League size ballpark where Curtis Friggin Granderson can hit 40 HRs

Strikeouts for a pitcher are overrated. Guys that pitch to contact with great stuff are usually the best pitchers, with notable exceptions. Strikeout pitchers are often wild and usually throw too many pitches. You can have Nolan Ryan frankly, give me Greg Maddux or Roy Halliday.

1) While strikeout pitchers do tend, generally, to be wild, the one we're discusing, Pineda, was not wild. He averaged about a half a walk more, per 9, than Nova. I'm sure his ERA will go up by a half run (at least), but that would happen to every pitcher who entered the AL East.

2) That park definitely helps certain hitters, but your example was poorly chosen. Curtis Granderson hit 20 HR on the road last year (21 at home). In 2009 he also hit 20 on the road. As a matter of fact, it's remarkable how close his number are in almost every category last year.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=grandcu01&year=2011&t=b

Must be the juice. I feel like I saw 15 of his HRs watching him against the Red Sox and they feel like every one goes about 257 feet to right field.

Not a free agent but I see no need for a new thread: Sox trade Scutaro. He had a nice bat and was a decent enough defensive SS, but I think you'll see a big downslide for SS production this season. Is Jose Iglesies ready (will he ever be?), or do you go with Punto/Aviles?

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Not a free agent but I see no need for a new thread: Sox trade Scutaro. He had a nice bat and was a decent enough defensive SS, but I think you'll see a big downslide for SS production this season. Is Jose Iglesies ready (will he ever be?), or do you go with Punto/Aviles?

Iglesias is still far away with his bat. From all reports he's been ML ready with the glove since he signed but his hitting is so inept that he'd likely do more harm than good.

And shit production from the SS position is pretty much par for the Sox since 2005. I also with death upon Nick Punto.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Not a free agent but I see no need for a new thread: Sox trade Scutaro. He had a nice bat and was a decent enough defensive SS, but I think you'll see a big downslide for SS production this season. Is Jose Iglesies ready (will he ever be?), or do you go with Punto/Aviles?

Iglesias is still far away with his bat. From all reports he's been ML ready with the glove since he signed but his hitting is so inept that he'd likely do more harm than good.

And shit production from the SS position is pretty much par for the Sox since 2005. I also with death upon Nick Punto.

I just read he's 21- maybe next year. The production has certainly been poor for a while at SS, but Scutaro could hit and drove in plenty of runs. I'm glad he won't be around to face Rivera.

Prince to Detroit?

bignick33 {l Wrote}:Prince to Detroit?

They now have 2 of teh 5 worst fielding 1st basemen over the last 3 years

Edit: In 2013 they're going to have a good amount of DHs VMart, Prince, Cabrera, Ordonez

Mags is a free agent.

claver2010 {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:Prince to Detroit?

They now have 2 of teh 5 worst fielding 1st basemen over the last 3 years

Edit: In 2013 they're going to have a good amount of DHs VMart, Prince, Cabrera, Ordonez

this is the kind of dumbass contract the mets would normally throw at someone. thank you bernie madoff. cecil was done at age 34, this contract takes junior to age 36. dead money.

DavidGordonsFoot {l Wrote}:

claver2010 {l Wrote}:

bignick33 {l Wrote}:Prince to Detroit?

They now have 2 of teh 5 worst fielding 1st basemen over the last 3 years

Edit: In 2013 they're going to have a good amount of DHs VMart, Prince, Cabrera, Ordonez

this is the kind of dumbass contract the mets would normally throw at someone. thank you bernie madoff. cecil was done at age 34, this contract takes junior to age 36. dead money.

I just love how they have to pay Bobby Bo like $2M for like the next 20 years.

Oswalt flirting w/Rangers after rumors that he was a done deal in St. Louis. If he goes elsewhere, do the Sox hold fast to their current rotation?

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Oswalt flirting w/Rangers after rumors that he was a done deal in St. Louis. If he goes elsewhere, do the Sox hold fast to their current rotation?

That's what they're rumored to do unless Edwin Jackson signs with them. They lowballed those two and were hoping that someone bit. Looks like Oswalt won't bite on the 1 year, $5M deal but who knows with Jackson.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Oswalt flirting w/Rangers after rumors that he was a done deal in St. Louis. If he goes elsewhere, do the Sox hold fast to their current rotation?

That's what they're rumored to do unless Edwin Jackson signs with them. They lowballed those two and were hoping that someone bit. Looks like Oswalt won't bite on the 1 year, $5M deal but who knows with Jackson.

Jackson would be a terrible error. Burnett level.

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:Oswalt flirting w/Rangers after rumors that he was a done deal in St. Louis. If he goes elsewhere, do the Sox hold fast to their current rotation?

That's what they're rumored to do unless Edwin Jackson signs with them. They lowballed those two and were hoping that someone bit. Looks like Oswalt won't bite on the 1 year, $5M deal but who knows with Jackson.

Jackson would be a terrible error. Burnett level.

Well ones what $5/10 MM? The other was $82