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I'm a Red Sox fan so your whole premise is off-base. But I'm also a realist. Add Lee to the Yankees' rotation and the 2010 MLB playoffs will be a mere formality barring some kind of major injury for the Yankees or another major acquisition for either the Red Sox or Rays. I'm excluding the NL because it's a joke.

branchinator {l Wrote}:I'm a Red Sox fan so your whole premise is off-base. But I'm also a realist. Add Lee to the Yankees' rotation and the 2010 MLB playoffs will be a mere formality barring some kind of major injury for the Yankees or another major acquisition for either the Red Sox or Rays. I'm excluding the NL because it's a joke.

Well, my whole premise is centered around the teams and talent, so it's obviously a huge relief that you're a Sox fan. Way to give up, by the way. I thought that loser mentality died with the drought.

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

branchinator {l Wrote}:I'm a Red Sox fan so your whole premise is off-base. But I'm also a realist. Add Lee to the Yankees' rotation and the 2010 MLB playoffs will be a mere formality barring some kind of major injury for the Yankees or another major acquisition for either the Red Sox or Rays. I'm excluding the NL because it's a joke.

Well, my whole premise is centered around the teams and talent, so it's obviously a huge relief that you're a Sox fan. Way to give up, by the way. I thought that loser mentality died with the drought.

The Yankees with Lee would have a better lineup, rotation, and bullpen. You really should switch to following a sport you might understand better. Maybe tennis?

Hey TRE, my fantasy baseball team stinks!

branchinator {l Wrote}:The Red Sox have no chance of beating the Yankees this year even if they make the playoffs. There isn't a single pitcher in the Red Sox rotation who the Yankees wouldn't destroy except maybe Lester. And then there's that whole bullpen thing that the Red Sox haven't quite figured out.

This i borderline the dumbest fucking thing I have ever read No offense intended of course.

By the way, how is that retarded "Lee to the Yankees" prediction looking? Was never happening. Yankees have nothing to trade.

branchinator {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

branchinator {l Wrote}:I'm a Red Sox fan so your whole premise is off-base. But I'm also a realist. Add Lee to the Yankees' rotation and the 2010 MLB playoffs will be a mere formality barring some kind of major injury for the Yankees or another major acquisition for either the Red Sox or Rays. I'm excluding the NL because it's a joke.

Well, my whole premise is centered around the teams and talent, so it's obviously a huge relief that you're a Sox fan. Way to give up, by the way. I thought that loser mentality died with the drought.

The Yankees with Lee would have a better lineup, rotation, and bullpen. You really should switch to following a sport you might understand better. Maybe tennis?

Trying to make opinion fact is fun. And don't forget to throw in a lame insult while you're at it. Oops...too late. So now that Lee is elsewhere are you gonna tongue bathe ARod's willy wonka some more?

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

branchinator {l Wrote}:The Red Sox have no chance of beating the Yankees this year even if they make the playoffs. There isn't a single pitcher in the Red Sox rotation who the Yankees wouldn't destroy except maybe Lester. And then there's that whole bullpen thing that the Red Sox haven't quite figured out.

Sure, if you assume the Lee deal goes through, that A-Rod has officially left his turtle-Rod playoff rep behind, Tex does anything, a 38 year old pitcher continues on his torrid pace for another 4 months, Granderson does anything, Gardner and Cano continue to play at a high level...

I was hoping it would come to this. Of course, my whole post was predicated on Lee going to the Yankees. Now that he's in Texas, this whole discussion is moot. However, I will take the opportunity to show you how dumb your post above is.

1) "A-Rod has officially left his turtle-Rod playoff rep behind" - A-Rod's career playoff OPS is .977. In Seattle, he performed well in the postseason. All of this "turtle-rod" stuff is the result of his 2005 and 2006 ALDS performances where he did suck pretty hard and the slapping incident in the 2004 ALCS. However, in the 2004 ALCS he had a respectable .895 OPS. Isn't using real stats instead of your incredibly uninformed opinions fun?

2) "Tex does anything" - Mark Teixeira currently has 17 HRs and 59 RBI's. He has done "anything". His avg and obp are below career norms right now and he's always been a second half player. Here come some pesky stats again: for his career, Teixeira's 1st half OPS is .872. In the 2nd half, it's .968, almost 100 points better. So, if anything, the Yankees can count on MORE from him in the 2nd half of a season where he's already produced solid power numbers.

3) "A 38 year old pitcher continues on his torrid pace for another 4 months" - This is probably the least moronic part of your post because there should be some regression from Pettitte. However, if the Yankees had traded for Lee, this wouldn't have been an issue because he'd be the 3rd or 4th starter in the playoffs.

4) "Granderson does anything" - This is the 7th or 8th batter in the Yankees lineup. He doesn't need to be an all-star for them to succeed. The Yankees' record to-date clearly shows this.

5) "Gardner and Cano continue to play at a high level" - Brett Gardner looks to me like a young player who's taking advantage of the first real opportunity he's ever had. And he's the 9th hitter. If he regresses a bit, it won't matter. As for Cano, he's a very good hitter entering the prime of his career. There's no reason why he can't finish the season with a .900+ OPS.

So, to recap, my original post was to say that the Red Sox would have no chance to beat the Yankees if they acquired Cliff Lee. That is obviously an opinion and I never presented it as fact. When I do present things as fact, I use real stats, which is obviously something that your baseless post above lacked.

branchinator {l Wrote}:
I was hoping it would come to this.

Wow, you're an even bigger d-bag than I thought.

branchinator {l Wrote}:Of course, my whole post was predicated on Lee going to the Yankees. Now that he's in Texas, this whole discussion is moot.

It's actually not moot because if you believed the Yanks plus Lee meant they would absolutely steamroll anyone, then the Yanks should be close to unbeatable even without him. But hey, I'm nice enough...I'll let you backpedal all ya want.

branchinator {l Wrote}:1) "A-Rod has officially left his turtle-Rod playoff rep behind" - A-Rod's career playoff OPS is .977. In Seattle, he performed well in the postseason. All of this "turtle-rod" stuff is the result of his 2005 and 2006 ALDS performances where he did suck pretty hard and the slapping incident in the 2004 ALCS. However, in the 2004 ALCS he had a respectable .895 OPS. Isn't using real stats instead of your incredibly uninformed opinions fun?

Other than last postseason, A-Rod's OPS in a playoff series was above his career average exactly twice and there were several times when his OPS was miserable. That's called turtling up. Superstars step up during the playoffs, and A-Rod hasn't (until last year). A player of his caliber is held to a higher standard (except by you of course). Tons of strikeouts and hits in meaningless spots. But go ahead and pull out all the stats you want to fellate him.

branchinator {l Wrote}:2) "Tex does anything" - Mark Teixeira currently has 17 HRs and 59 RBI's. He has done "anything". His avg and obp are below career norms right now and he's always been a second half player. Here come some pesky stats again: for his career, Teixeira's 1st half OPS is .872. In the 2nd half, it's .968, almost 100 points better. So, if anything, the Yankees can count on MORE from him in the 2nd half of a season where he's already produced solid power numbers.

He has done something, but as stated above, superstars step up for their team. The high RBI # has more to do with the significantly high # of baserunners around him. You're right that he's a second halfer usually, so we'll see.

branchinator {l Wrote}:3) "A 38 year old pitcher continues on his torrid pace for another 4 months" - This is probably the least moronic part of your post because there should be some regression from Pettitte. However, if the Yankees had traded for Lee, this wouldn't have been an issue because he'd be the 3rd or 4th starter in the playoffs.

A third or fourth starter is still seeing significant time on the mound in the playoffs...so you can downplay it all you want, but he would have been out there with big expectations.

branchinator {l Wrote}:4) "Granderson does anything" - This is the 7th or 8th batter in the Yankees lineup. He doesn't need to be an all-star for them to succeed. The Yankees' record to-date clearly shows this.

This is true. But they picked him up to be more than the 7th or 8th best hitter. And so far he's been a huge disappointment.

branchinator {l Wrote}:5) "Gardner and Cano continue to play at a high level" - Brett Gardner looks to me like a young player who's taking advantage of the first real opportunity he's ever had. And he's the 9th hitter. If he regresses a bit, it won't matter. As for Cano, he's a very good hitter entering the prime of his career. There's no reason why he can't finish the season with a .900+ OPS.

I didn't say there's no reason that either one of them will continue to be good. The premise of my list was not to say it couldn't happen (which you've seemed to either blatantly ignore or missed completely), but to say this is what probably needs to happen for the Yanks to roll through the postseason in the same manner they are rolling now (Lee-less or not).

branchinator {l Wrote}:So, to recap, my original post was to say that the Red Sox would have no chance to beat the Yankees if they acquired Cliff Lee. That is obviously an opinion and I never presented it as fact. When I do present things as fact, I use real stats, which is obviously something that your baseless post above lacked.

This is my favorite part. It's hilarious that you said something would absolutely happen, and I responded by saying that isn't necessarily true - yet you argue against me like I said that it absolutely wouldn't happen. Then you say you use stats when presenting something as a fact, then lambast me for not using stats for my opinion. So my post is "baseless" because it's an opinion? Logic ain't your strong suit.

Ortiz, 18 dongs before the All Star break.

Hall has been pretty blah though.

With about 65 games remaining, the Yankees have a 2.5 game lead on the Rays (3 in the loss) and 7 on the Sox (8 in the loss). This is slightly worse for the Sox than when '74 originally marked them muerto. They have been gutted by injuries at key positions, but seem poised to regain several key players for the last 50 games or so. What are the realistic odds of the Sox making the cut? 1-4? And if they do make the playoffs, can they just give the Cy Young to Lester by acclamation?

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:With about 65 games remaining, the Yankees have a 2.5 game lead on the Rays (3 in the loss) and 7 on the Sox (8 in the loss). This is slightly worse for the Sox than when '74 originally marked them muerto. They have been gutted by injuries at key positions, but seem poised to regain several key players for the last 50 games or so. What are the realistic odds of the Sox making the cut? 1-4? And if they do make the playoffs, can they just give the Cy Young to Lester by acclamation?

The Sox are more than 50% likely to make the playoffs. This lull is all about injuries, and Buchholz, Beckett, VMart, Pedroia, Ellsbury and Hermida all start rolling in now.

You don't win with Cash at C, Eric Patterson at 2B and an outfield of McDonald, Nava and Drew.

Kevin Cash has a career OPS+ of 38. That is a historically bad number. I still can't believe that when Varitek went down the top 4 catchers in the organization were all on the DL. They even had to settle for one of the fake Molina's.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:With about 65 games remaining, the Yankees have a 2.5 game lead on the Rays (3 in the loss) and 7 on the Sox (8 in the loss). This is slightly worse for the Sox than when '74 originally marked them muerto. They have been gutted by injuries at key positions, but seem poised to regain several key players for the last 50 games or so. What are the realistic odds of the Sox making the cut? 1-4? And if they do make the playoffs, can they just give the Cy Young to Lester by acclamation?

The Sox are more than 50% likely to make the playoffs. This lull is all about injuries, and Buchholz, Beckett, VMart, Pedroia, Ellsbury and Hermida all start rolling in now.

You don't win with Cash at C, Eric Patterson at 2B and an outfield of McDonald, Nava and Drew.

We agree on the reason for the lull. The problem is that I'm skeptical of their ability to pull ahead given the limited window and assuming some adjustment period for the injured players. This is especially so for Beckett.

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:With about 65 games remaining, the Yankees have a 2.5 game lead on the Rays (3 in the loss) and 7 on the Sox (8 in the loss). This is slightly worse for the Sox than when '74 originally marked them muerto. They have been gutted by injuries at key positions, but seem poised to regain several key players for the last 50 games or so. What are the realistic odds of the Sox making the cut? 1-4? And if they do make the playoffs, can they just give the Cy Young to Lester by acclamation?

The Sox are more than 50% likely to make the playoffs. This lull is all about injuries, and Buchholz, Beckett, VMart, Pedroia, Ellsbury and Hermida all start rolling in now.

You don't win with Cash at C, Eric Patterson at 2B and an outfield of McDonald, Nava and Drew.

We agree on the reason for the lull. The problem is that I'm skeptical of their ability to pull ahead given the limited window and assuming some adjustment period for the injured players. This is especially so for Beckett.

I don't expect them to catch the Yankees, and haven't since Beckett went down. They are better than 2:1 to cath the Rays though. It's not really that many games, and there is still a bunch of head to head, I believe.

For the Sox, like most years, it is all about getting in the dance. Since they got Schilling after 2003, they have been built for the playoffs. This year even moreso than others, if Beckett can get healthy. Beckett/Lester/Buchholz/Lackey could be really nasty.

The pitching is getting healthy again with Buchholz and Beckett back this week but the offense is still weeks away from being whole again. Who knows when Pedroia is coming back, Ellsbury is apparently dead, and VMart is still over a week away. Right now, the Sox are 4.5 games behind Tampa. It's certainly not insurmountable but if they keep on playing crapily, they're going to be forced into a situation where they'll need to win most of the remaining games against the Rays.

By the time the Sox get healthy I fear it will be too late and the annual August slide is right around the corner

Beckett makes his triumpant return tonight!

bcsoxfan12 {l Wrote}:By the time the Sox get healthy I fear it will be too late and the annual August slide is right around the corner

What the fuck is the annual August slide besides something you made up?

Edit: I figured it out. "Annual" refers to August of 2006 when Jason Johnson and Kyle Snyder prominently featured in the Red Sox rotation. They've been over .500, usually comfortably so, in August in all other years with Tito at the helm.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

bcsoxfan12 {l Wrote}:By the time the Sox get healthy I fear it will be too late and the annual August slide is right around the corner

What the fuck is the annual August slide besides something you made up?

Edit: I figured it out. "Annual" refers to August of 2006 when Jason Johnson and Kyle Snyder prominently featured in the Red Sox rotation. They've been over .500, usually comfortably so, in August in all other years with Tito at the helm.

Amen brother.

Bill Hall, 10th dong. Eff you Pedro.

BCEagle74 {l Wrote}:

BCEagle74 {l Wrote}:Red Sox are muerto.

Tampa Bay has matured.

Better make a trade Theo, but even then, its too late.

MUERTO.

May 18th

HGAW.

BCEagle74 {l Wrote}:

BCEagle74 {l Wrote}:

BCEagle74 {l Wrote}:Red Sox are muerto.

Tampa Bay has matured.

Better make a trade Theo, but even then, its too late.

MUERTO.

May 18th

HGAW.

Again, who should the Sox target? They need bullpen help and for their guys to get healthy. And the bullpen isn't the reason they've been averaging like 3 runs per game over the last month.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

bcsoxfan12 {l Wrote}:By the time the Sox get healthy I fear it will be too late and the annual August slide is right around the corner

What the fuck is the annual August slide besides something you made up?

Edit: I figured it out. "Annual" refers to August of 2006 when Jason Johnson and Kyle Snyder prominently featured in the Red Sox rotation. They've been over .500, usually comfortably so, in August in all other years with Tito at the helm.

I don't see how August is more or less critical than September. These aren't the 1978 Red Sox (who had a shitty August and outstanding September). There are 6 more games w/Tampa (split home/away) and 10 more with the Yankees (7 away, 3 home). There are also 6 more w/Baltimore. It can definitely be done, we'll see how it plays out. As a Yankee fan

Someone needs to put together a motivational poster or something. Or maybe then can sign President Palmer.

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

bcsoxfan12 {l Wrote}:By the time the Sox get healthy I fear it will be too late and the annual August slide is right around the corner

What the fuck is the annual August slide besides something you made up?

Edit: I figured it out. "Annual" refers to August of 2006 when Jason Johnson and Kyle Snyder prominently featured in the Red Sox rotation. They've been over .500, usually comfortably so, in August in all other years with Tito at the helm.

I don't see how August is more or less critical than September. These aren't the 1978 Red Sox (who had a shitty August and outstanding September). There are 6 more games w/Tampa (split home/away) and 10 more with the Yankees (7 away, 3 home). There are also 6 more w/Baltimore. It can definitely be done, we'll see how it plays out. As a Yankee fan

Someone needs to put together a motivational poster or something. Or maybe then can sign President Palmer.

Well yeah. The point of my post was to call out the Sox's "annual August slide" for being the bullshit that it is.

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

EagleNYC {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

bcsoxfan12 {l Wrote}:By the time the Sox get healthy I fear it will be too late and the annual August slide is right around the corner

What the fuck is the annual August slide besides something you made up?

Edit: I figured it out. "Annual" refers to August of 2006 when Jason Johnson and Kyle Snyder prominently featured in the Red Sox rotation. They've been over .500, usually comfortably so, in August in all other years with Tito at the helm.

I don't see how August is more or less critical than September. These aren't the 1978 Red Sox (who had a shitty August and outstanding September). There are 6 more games w/Tampa (split home/away) and 10 more with the Yankees (7 away, 3 home). There are also 6 more w/Baltimore. It can definitely be done, we'll see how it plays out. As a Yankee fan

Someone needs to put together a motivational poster or something. Or maybe then can sign President Palmer.

Well yeah. The point of my post was to call out the Sox's "annual August slide" for being the bullshit that it is.

Agreed. I thought all that fatalism died in 2004, much to the dismay of Shaughnessy.

It's not even fatalism. It's simply looking at the standings since 2004 when Tito took over and seeing that the Sox have probably had one of the best August records in the ML over the past six years.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

bcsoxfan12 {l Wrote}:By the time the Sox get healthy I fear it will be too late and the annual August slide is right around the corner

What the fuck is the annual August slide besides something you made up?

Edit: I figured it out. "Annual" refers to August of 2006 when Jason Johnson and Kyle Snyder prominently featured in the Red Sox rotation. They've been over .500, usually comfortably so, in August in all other years with Tito at the helm.

Amen brother.

Bill Hall, 10th dong. Eff you Pedro.

Sure, his 6th since being forced into starting. I guess we can just ignore the .237 BA (where he was supposed to improve dramatically with an every day role), right big fella? I suppose you're just goading me for a response, though, right?

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

bcsoxfan12 {l Wrote}:By the time the Sox get healthy I fear it will be too late and the annual August slide is right around the corner

What the fuck is the annual August slide besides something you made up?

Edit: I figured it out. "Annual" refers to August of 2006 when Jason Johnson and Kyle Snyder prominently featured in the Red Sox rotation. They've been over .500, usually comfortably so, in August in all other years with Tito at the helm.

Amen brother.

Bill Hall, 10th dong. Eff you Pedro.

Sure, his 6th since being forced into starting. I guess we can just ignore the .237 BA (where he was supposed to improve dramatically with an every day role), right big fella? I suppose you're just goading me for a response, though, right?

Hit his 11th yesterday, Thought you moneyball guys didn't care about mundane things like batting average.

Well his OBP is .320 which kinda sucks if he were a regular. Thing is he isn't so it's pretty much what to expect when Bill Hall gets everyday playing time. His OPS+ of 99 is actually fairly encouraging, though all it really says is that Bill Hall is a decidedly average ML hitter. And we're back to where we started.

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

pick6pedro {l Wrote}:

twballgame9 {l Wrote}:

flyingelvii {l Wrote}:

bcsoxfan12 {l Wrote}:By the time the Sox get healthy I fear it will be too late and the annual August slide is right around the corner

What the fuck is the annual August slide besides something you made up?

Edit: I figured it out. "Annual" refers to August of 2006 when Jason Johnson and Kyle Snyder prominently featured in the Red Sox rotation. They've been over .500, usually comfortably so, in August in all other years with Tito at the helm.

Amen brother.

Bill Hall, 10th dong. Eff you Pedro.

Sure, his 6th since being forced into starting. I guess we can just ignore the .237 BA (where he was supposed to improve dramatically with an every day role), right big fella? I suppose you're just goading me for a response, though, right?

Hit his 11th yesterday, Thought you moneyball guys didn't care about mundane things like batting average.

Please don't bring up RBI, a truly empty stat.